Strange how it has not come to my notice any one condemn them on this thread. All i ever hear is the defence of Islam and how well it treats its women. Funny i never hear about the religious police telling men to wear appropriate length trousers or that they should grow beards. Is it the fault of countless Muslims that these distortion of scriptures restrict women freedoms or the mixed messages scriptures give them? Still this is another subject that should be brushed under the carpet hidden and not debated. I don't mind the abuse, it is of no consequence to me when i consider how many Muslim women are suffering, for no fault of theirs.
Not really sure why I'm responding to this. The reason you haven't seen anyone condemn anything on this thread is because that is not what the topic is about. The reason you hear about how well Islam treats women is because Muslims believe Islam does treat women well. What you keep banging on about is how Islam is represented by oppressive regimes and how they choose to abuse their positions of power. So if you want to talk about how badly women are treated in Pakistan or Somalia then you should start a thread about it in the Politics section. What you need to stop doing is equating the wrong actions of men in these Muslim countries to what is taught by Islam.
Its not just Pakistan and Somalia, what about the Iran, ksa,Afghanistan, you tell me what Muslim country, where women are treated as equals. You can protest all you like that scriptures dont demean women or treat them as unequal but those countries islamic interpretations conflict with yours. This thread is considering women and Islam and the evidence does not bare witness to your claims.
Xris, what of women in nations with many religious affiliations, like the UK?
There you go again! None of those countries use the shariah of Islam as the basis of governance. They are dictatorships/corrupt governments oppressing their people through a different mix of economics, religion and violence. They do not follow what Islam teaches.
Their Islamic interpretations may well conflict with mine but I can back my opinions up through scripture, historical accounts and reasoning. They cannot justify their position, nor do they need to, they simply crush anyone who protests. As for the individual men who oppress their women at a domestic level, note that the literacy rates in these countries are shocking, so it should not be a surprise people lack the education and understanding of Islam to treat women with the respect and dignity that Islam demands for them.
The evidence does not bear witness to my claims? What evidence have you seen? What Pakistan and Iran do? Come now, I'm having to repeat this to you so many times it's starting to lose meaning for me too. These countries do not follow the shariah of Islam - they are regimes looking to contain their people and hold onto power via any means.
And talking about evidence, you haven't looked beyond what you see on tv, which is where I imagine you get most of your information about Islam from. Have you read history books? Have you read Islamic jurisprudence works? Have you examined how women were treated during the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him)? Did you know the first person honoured to be a Muslim (after the Prophet) was woman? The first martyr was a woman. The greatest scholar in inheritance laws was a woman etc. Don't talk about evidence when you can't be bothered to go and find a reliable source.
secular countries have laws that reflect logic rather dogmatic scriptures, they have to act within the law.
They all have secular law.
Well, except for Somalia which has no law.
They all have secular law.
Well, except for Somalia which has no law.
I dont think so, Somali
Gambia (is) overned by sharia law
It says in the wikipedia Somalians have shari'a courts...?
I just want to know are women regarded as second class citizens within the realms of Islam please.
Somalia does not have a functioning government, it has not had one in nearly a generation. There is a nominal government that is completely ignored by the general population, to the point where different regions of the country (esp Somaliland) have begun to act like independent states. The country is in lawless disarray, ruled by warlords, and it's increaslingly becoming an operating grounds for extremist groups. That's a hell of a lot different than the Taliban.
Dude, you have no idea what you're talking about. I have spent months working in Gambia, most recently a couple years ago, I have good friends there, I have known people in the government, and I've even seen Jammeh in person. In fact I just got together with a close Gambian friend the day before yesterday and we talked at length about the country. The government in Gambia is pretty bad, Jammeh is a self-aggrandizing child, but it is not even remotely a religious state. Sharia may well be practiced by various mosques and small communities, but it is not even part of the national judicial or legal system. Also true of Senegal, which borders Gambia.
Women's rights in the Gambia are not terrible (women serve in Parliament, can vote, can own businesses and property), though in general their quality of life is bad because of severe poverty and lack of access to literacy, education, and health care. It doesn't have anything to do with religion, I mean it's no worse than in nearby non-Muslim countries, like Guinea, Sierra Leone, Cote d'Ivoire.
And you're wrong about some other countries too. Bangladesh is a parliamentary democracy, and its laws are not based on Sharia. Morocco is a constitutional monarchy, also without government-imposed Sharia.
PLEASE look stuff up before you type, it wastes everyone's time to correct factual errors instead of discussing things of substance.
---------- Post added 10-22-2009 at 02:25 PM ----------
Somalia is going to be a very conservative Islamic state whenever it actually becomes a state. But it's completely lawless right now despite transitional governments being "named". They have no governing power.
Look at what the US State Dept and the British Foreign Office have to say about Somalia's central government: "No central government since 1991" and "the nascent TFG remains fragile and lacks the capacity to provide services inside Somalia. General insecurity and inter- and intra-clan violence frequently occur throughout the country, and attacks and fighting between anti-government elements and TFG and Ethiopian forces take place regularly in Mogadishu and in regions outside the capital. The United States has no official representation inside Somalia".
Country Profile: Somalia
So I'm not disputing that Somalia has Sharia to some degree and that it will have it to a greater degree when it stabilizes. But one thing it is not right now is a Sharia state -- it's just a suffering lawless wasteland.
Well its a difference on ... what you consider sharia.
This debate is about Islam and women, not women in African societies.
Do you question the publicized problems we see in such states as Pakistan and Iran, are they not as a direct result of sharia interpretation?
sharia isn't sharia isn't sharia -- are you talking about a 100% complete fundamentalist interpretation of it? If so, in how many places does that exist other than pre-2001 Afghanistan?