My point is, again I repeat myself how does Islam regard women in Iran and Pakistan, is that clearer to you Aedes.

Does the Koran specifically say that women should walk behind their husbands and if so why and what else does it say about womens positions within Islam?
Thanks and goodnight, will pick this thread back up in the morning.
Thank you
Caz.

So the sharia you abide by is not true sharia, so why abide by its laws if they are insufficient in their management. I have said its the allowances that the Koran authorises that permits certain muslims to abuse its content. I can only go by the visible interpretations muslims use to execute the laws, to judge its value.

So why have more than one wife, what purpose does it serve? The benefits in bed well outweigh the troubles it may cause. Yes i am married , its not a platonic relationship, i do love her and i do desire her. Don't kid a kidder its the sexual satisfaction men harbour when they take a new wife and very many first wives object, so dont make out they dont. Answer my other question ,you avoided, why cant a women take more husbands ? You notice I avoided the story of Aisha.

How so? How is it not true shariah? It is your fault that the way you judge Islam is not by what it teaches, but what some of its flawed followers do.

I already told you why you would have more than one wife. It is a way of looking after women in society. Yes it can act as a way of sexual fantasies for someone who is very rich but for the average man it probably wouldn't. Could you afford another three wives?

There wouldn't be enough men for women to have four husbands. Secondly, the husband must provide for his wife and having multiple husbands would amount to waste. Thirdly, matters of paternity would create issues, as a woman would not know who her child belongs to. Also, this messes up the inheritance laws of Islam if a woman has multiple husbands.

So its my fault that so many muslims interpret its laws in the wrong way, is it really?

You have not answered the question, why not be charitable and donate to a widows fund, you dont have to bed them.

So whats wrong with a rich women having four husbands and then having medical tests to find who the father is..simples ?

Almost every social ill in the Western world can be traced back to the breakdown of the family unit. So Islam is setup so the family unit is kept strong through each individual playing a certain role.

So the sharia you abide by is not true sharia

What I find interesting is how peoples underlying attitudes form hidden bias towards certain groups.

For example, within Christianity, women used to wear head scarfs to church, and modest clothing was the rule. I believe this is documented within their texts, and followed strictly by nuns, hence their uniform, which I have never heard anyone criticise.

When a muslim womens exactly the same outfit, they are oppressed, second class, etc etc.

So you would not call me a bigot on the evidence you have found that qualifies to call me one? O what webs we weave .. So you call it sexists having two as my opposed to saying four. Is this it, I qualify as a bigot because i claimed four instead of two...

I don't come from the position where i look for sharia laws, especially as they have no influence on me, and then try to find how it effects Muslims. I see the evidence of such things as the abuse of women's freedoms and ask what laws allows these abuses....

Jews have not come to my attention, in the way other faiths have, so i have no need to question their beliefs.

The rigid laws followed by highly orthodox Jews can also be seen as abusive to women's freedoms. And I say this as a Jew with orthodox Jews in my own family. Part of the traditional Jewish wedding ceremony involves the bride circling around the groom seven times, which is a symbolic statement of obedience and deference.

Symbolic ritual is not a problem for me.

That's not the point. The symbolism directly denotes the expected relationship between husband and wife, and women are often treated as second class citizens in this kind of family.

Are you seriously generalizing about Islam based on a couple anecdotes???

If I search hard enough I could find a Zoroastrian, Theravada Buddhist, or Bahai woman who has been beaten and raped, but the extreme anecdote doesn't prove a generalization!!

If you can find any other women who has suffered rape and then been condemned as an adulterer because her witness was not equal to her attackers, then show me. Did you really think i was condemning all muslims for one woman's rape? sorry if i did not make my opinions clearly. It is a problem for muslims when their scripture is used against an innocent women, they should be condemning this act, not me for bringing it to their attention.

But that's not what the scripture teaches. And Muslims do condemn these type of acts and we certainly don't need you to bring it to our attention. You are now relieved from this self-appointed duty. Thanks