Does anyone of you think the world can change?

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BeatsMeWhy
 
Reply Sat 19 Sep, 2009 01:31 am
@chad3006,
chad3006;91408 wrote:
Humanity will either become extinct, or evolve into something that can live on whatever version of the earth is left. Even if humanity becomes extinct, chances are good that some simpler form of life will continue on without us, and thus the whole process begins again.


Of course, that's a possibility.

Anyway, if the problem we have is a problem of lack of the knowledge of how to educate ourselves, that is, a philosophical one [1], then there is a chance that society as it is now be a necessary step in the course of evolution. When it is possible for a species to survive when they learn to use their intelligence in a certain way.

You can hardly expect an invertebrate to evolve into a species of perfect wise individuals without passing a point in which intelligence is not enough developed for intelligent cooperation to be worth or even possible. Then it's sure that non cooperative tactics, like banging open other's heads, will be developed. And taught to younger individuals.

It's not easy to get rid of those things in favour of something we haven't had the chance to try out. To keep doing things that work, or, in this case, that seem to work up to a point, is a survival trait, surely.

-------------------------
[1] And given now and then people like Gandhi or Einstein casually appear probably it is.
 
Caroline
 
Reply Sat 19 Sep, 2009 02:09 am
@BeatsMeWhy,
Hey you just been all tweeted, go see.
Tweet tweet.
Thanks.
Twitter
 
Krumple
 
Reply Sat 19 Sep, 2009 05:15 am
@BeatsMeWhy,
The world can definitely change. From cave dwelling to office cubical, from fur skinned loin cloths to double breasted suits. From chasing the herd to chasing a shot of tequila. From barefoot journeys to cross continental flights. From berry pigment cave paintings to photoshop. From stone spears and bone knives to intercontinental ballistic missiles. From staring up at the sky imagining to looking back and wondering when.
 
Caroline
 
Reply Sat 19 Sep, 2009 06:14 am
@BeatsMeWhy,
And from war to peace eh Krumple?
 
Krumple
 
Reply Sat 19 Sep, 2009 06:25 am
@Caroline,
Caroline;91768 wrote:
And from war to peace eh Krumple?


I don't know, it seems humans really enjoy war. Even to this day our governments are both profiting heavily off war. They funnel tax payer money into the pockets of the defense contractors.

We have a new army, called the army of contractors. They invade a country and then rebuild it at the cost of tax payers income. So we love war now, it's great for the economy, great for wealthy individuals and helps unite all those nations that just won't comply with our standards of living.

War is win win win. Peace is boring, resource expensive and doesn't kill anyone.
 
Caroline
 
Reply Sat 19 Sep, 2009 06:34 am
@BeatsMeWhy,
Humans enjoy bloody violence and suffering, how can you say that? War is born out of conflict, UNRESOLVED conflict which just shows there is a an opening for a resolution, how can you say other wise when there is so much human suffering going on because of war, that is not very humain.

And it's time to stop invading and be peaceful because as I've said before it's reached a critical point and we need to act now and very fast before we lose our planet, supporting war Krumple is what destroys and kills people, I really thought better of you, oh dear.
See ya!
 
Krumple
 
Reply Sat 19 Sep, 2009 06:46 am
@Caroline,
Caroline;91782 wrote:
Humans enjoy bloody violence and suffering, how can you say that? War is born out of conflict, UNRESOLVED conflict which just shows there is a an opening for a resolution, how can you say other wise when there is so much human suffering going on because of war, that is not very humain.

And it's time to stop invading and be peaceful because as I've said before it's reached a critical point and we need to act now and very fast before we lose our planet, supporting war Krumple is what destroys and kills people, I really thought better of you, oh dear.
See ya!


I would have thought you could tell when I was being sarcastic. I object to war. I think it can never be justified unless you are being attacked, you then have the right to defend yourself if you wish. I am opposed to war.
 
Caroline
 
Reply Sat 19 Sep, 2009 06:47 am
@BeatsMeWhy,
Caroline Reay-Smith (CARS63) on Twitter
Sorry I gave you the wrong link folks, here ya go.Smile

---------- Post added 09-19-2009 at 07:48 AM ----------

I wish you would stop being so sarcastic K. go home and be at peace with yourself, all is forgiven, ok.
Cheers!
 
Krumple
 
Reply Sat 19 Sep, 2009 07:03 am
@Caroline,
Caroline;91795 wrote:
Caroline Reay-Smith (CARS63) on Twitter
Sorry I gave you the wrong link folks, here ya go.Smile

---------- Post added 09-19-2009 at 07:48 AM ----------

I wish you would stop being so sarcastic K. go home and be at peace with yourself, all is forgiven, ok.
Cheers!


It's just how I am Caroline. I am not sure why, perhaps it is a coping mechanism to use instead of getting mad or upset. I use sarcasm instead because it's usually relatively harmless. I also get bored with being so serious so occasionally I find it necessary to bring some kind of humor into it. Humor is much more inviting, even though it might take some getting use to on a message board. If you are patient though, you'll figure me out and notice when I am trying to be funny instead of serious. Besides if I were serious all the time, I would go crazy.

I can give you some advice though, just assume that everything I say is sarcastic. Don't take me serious about anything I say and it will be much easier to understand me.
 
Caroline
 
Reply Sat 19 Sep, 2009 07:10 am
@BeatsMeWhy,
You need love K. you need to find yourself a good woman so get out there and find one, you do deserve it, ya know.
 
Krumple
 
Reply Sat 19 Sep, 2009 07:14 am
@Caroline,
Caroline;91817 wrote:
You need love K. you need to find yourself a good woman so get out there and find one, you do deserve it, ya know.


Funny Caroline, but I am completely fine with my status. I enjoy my independence and like being single. I have my acquaintances and that is all I need. I am not traditional in any sense of the word.

I think marriage is for anyone who wants it, weather gay or straight, but I don't want it for myself. I get bored too easy, if I were to get married it would end pretty quick. So I don't see the point of it. I honestly don't think a majority of humans are meant to be monogamous but I feel we try to ignore that sometimes.

I don't think love needs to be a thirty year long relationship. You can have it at any time, even in a day. So why pin yourself down in hopes it will last a life time? We both know it fails to do so over fifty percent of the time.
 
The Jester phil
 
Reply Sat 19 Sep, 2009 07:25 am
@BeatsMeWhy,
I think nothing really changed since the dawn of humanity, nor will. Of course science improved, from fire to electricity, from carts to spacecrafts, from the sword to the ICBM. The few change, but the few do not change the many. Society? What is the difference between the poor and the poor? For me we are going in circles. Human nature has not changed - only the means.

EDIT: I would like to add a quote from Aldous Huxley: "Technological progress has merely provided us with more efficient means for going backwards."
 
Caroline
 
Reply Sat 19 Sep, 2009 07:30 am
@BeatsMeWhy,
Im not talking about marriage K. I was talking about love and companionship, you need it, everyone does.
Thanks.
 
Krumple
 
Reply Sat 19 Sep, 2009 07:50 am
@Caroline,
Caroline;91828 wrote:
Im not talking about marriage K. I was talking about love and companionship, you need it, everyone does.
Thanks.


Yeah well, I have that covered. You don't need to worry about me. But thankx for the thought.
 
manored
 
Reply Sat 19 Sep, 2009 10:57 am
@chad3006,
chad3006;91342 wrote:
society will reluctantly change when the last tree is felled, from the last rain forest, to make lumber to panel the unused library of the richest man on earth. And he will heat his opulent home with the cheapest, most abundant fuel on earth--human corpses.
you cannot fell the last tree of a rain forest, you can only fell the second last one =)

I think it will change before that, society is actually always changing, its just that only a few changes are good =)

chad3006;91355 wrote:
For us, it will be too late, but not for someone/something else.
Someone/something else doesnt matters, we wont be here to see it =)

TickTockMan;91413 wrote:
Who is saying the same thing? And what is the same thing that they are referring to?

I've thought about it, and I can't figure out what you mean. Too late for who or what?
Us

Caroline;91768 wrote:
And from war to peace eh Krumple?
War will never end I think, its a necessity from the human nature. Even if we end all problems in the world, we will probally keep waging wars just for fun. In that case we will probally use robot armies though, rather than people =)

Humans cant cope with having no problems, they invent problems for thenselves.

Caroline;91782 wrote:
Humans enjoy bloody violence and suffering, how can you say that? War is born out of conflict, UNRESOLVED conflict which just shows there is a an opening for a resolution
We do enjoy those things, but only if there is no consequence. Thats why we make so many video-games about these things.

There is always a peacefull way of solving things, but unhappyfully that doesnt means everone will agree on it. If both sides want the whole donnut, its unlikely that they will agree to split it in two.

Caroline;91828 wrote:
Im not talking about marriage K. I was talking about love and companionship, you need it, everyone does.
Thanks.
I dont think its a necessity, but its a utter contribuition towards happiness and sanity =)
 
Caroline
 
Reply Sat 19 Sep, 2009 12:22 pm
@Krumple,
Krumple;91837 wrote:
Yeah well, I have that covered. You don't need to worry about me. But thankx for the thought.
I thought you told me you were single Krumple because that's what you told me not all that long ago in chat at the top of the home forums screen, I mean you were so hot you were smoking so why did you tell me you were single then please, pray tell?



---------- Post added 09-19-2009 at 01:28 PM ----------

manored;91867 wrote:
y
I dont think its a necessity, but its a utter contribuition towards happiness and sanity =)

Get married if you want Manored, who cares as long as you are happy, that's all that counts, go for it.
Thank You.
 
BeatsMeWhy
 
Reply Sat 19 Sep, 2009 01:55 pm
@The Jester phil,
The Jester;91825 wrote:
I think nothing really changed since the dawn of humanity, nor will. Of course science improved, from fire to electricity, from carts to spacecrafts, from the sword to the ICBM. The few change, but the few do not change the many. Society? What is the difference between the poor and the poor? For me we are going in circles. Human nature has not changed - only the means.


I've never been sure about what human nature is assumed to be.

I think we simply have a set of strategies that we develop or learn during our life. I think we all learn a lot of wrong strategies that work up to a point, and I think it would be quite difficult not to learn them. Or even not to use them, even knowing they are wrong. They are still a resource.

And yes, I'm with you. Nothing essential seems to have changed for some thousands of years. Very depressing.

But it seems cheating to come up with some human nature that somewhat justifies the fact that we are stuck up (to say the least).

I mean, there are examples of people who become wise and make a difference and succeed in improving the world. And of people that become mass killers and kamikazes. I don't think wiseness is something that comes in your genes, and probably there are examples of people that overcome every single genetic defect you can think of.

What should evolution offer us so that we all become wise? Education? Perspective? X-rays?

Of course, I'm well aware of the forbidding inertia of society, and I would be the last to answer with a categorical yes to my own question. But the reasons that seem to prevent society from evolving seem all hollow.
 
manored
 
Reply Sun 20 Sep, 2009 08:44 pm
@BeatsMeWhy,
BMW;91955 wrote:
I've never been sure about what human nature is assumed to be.

I think we simply have a set of strategies that we develop or learn during our life. I think we all learn a lot of wrong strategies that work up to a point, and I think it would be quite difficult not to learn them. Or even not to use them, even knowing they are wrong. They are still a resource.

And yes, I'm with you. Nothing essential seems to have changed for some thousands of years. Very depressing.

But it seems cheating to come up with some human nature that somewhat justifies the fact that we are stuck up (to say the least).

Unhappyfully these "bad" strategies are usually those that help we pass our dna forward. So, while our brains may be shaped by the world to think in the society, our dna is shaped to make us think on ourselves, instinct that can mostly only be countered by pro-society education.

So I think we wont be getting our feet out of the mud until we either modify ourselves or develop an educational system powerfull enough to steer the majority away from individualism.
 
chad3006
 
Reply Mon 21 Sep, 2009 08:48 am
@BeatsMeWhy,
BMW;91702 wrote:
Of course, that's a possibility.

Anyway, if the problem we have is a problem of lack of the knowledge of how to educate ourselves, that is, a philosophical one [1], then there is a chance that society as it is now be a necessary step in the course of evolution. When it is possible for a species to survive when they learn to use their intelligence in a certain way.

You can hardly expect an invertebrate to evolve into a species of perfect wise individuals without passing a point in which intelligence is not enough developed for intelligent cooperation to be worth or even possible. Then it's sure that non cooperative tactics, like banging open other's heads, will be developed. And taught to younger individuals.

It's not easy to get rid of those things in favour of something we haven't had the chance to try out. To keep doing things that work, or, in this case, that seem to work up to a point, is a survival trait, surely.

-------------------------
[1] And given now and then people like Gandhi or Einstein casually appear probably it is.


Possibly, but it could be that intelligence is not what is needed. Humans may prove to be an evolutionary experiment that failed. Intelligence may not necessarily be the apex of evolution.
 
Krumple
 
Reply Mon 21 Sep, 2009 09:07 am
@Caroline,
Caroline;91908 wrote:
I thought you told me you were single Krumple because that's what you told me not all that long ago in chat at the top of the home forums screen, I mean you were so hot you were smoking so why did you tell me you were single then please, pray tell?


Isn't that question a little off topic Caroline? Shouldn't you be setting the example of staying on topic? If you want to know something about me, you can always pm it instead of derailing the topic. If you must know, yes I am single, but that doesn't prevent me from dating or having casual sex from time to time does it? Or is it a requirement to be in a relationship for that? Is it anyone's business what my life style is? No, but then again I don't think anyone here really cares.

The world refuses to change because it enjoys ignorance over investigation.
 
 

 
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