Is Beauty Truth?

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Alan McDougall
 
Reply Wed 3 Mar, 2010 11:29 pm
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;135774 wrote:
Innocence is always buried in us, if not already discovered. Wisdom/Science as the annihilation of throbbing errors?

The transcendental is the virgin eternal, as its program remains untouched, which is to evolve by synthesizing experience -- sin as a passing inferior synthesis, eventually re-synthesized as grace/wisdom?.

Consider the myth. Jesus is born of a virgin. Only the transcendental is virginal in man. The transcendental is read-only-memory. Personality is random-access-memory....? But when the computer is on (one) its ram and rom are one.(on)...? Is Jesus electrified ram-rom?

is ram the donut and rom the donut hole? is jesus prime (1 to the third plus i) just the self-consciousness of this rendezvous?


Little convoluted that post don't you think?
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Wed 3 Mar, 2010 11:34 pm
@Alan McDougall,
Alan McDougall;135776 wrote:
Little convoluted that post don't you think?



here's what it's about. the jesus myth combined with a digital electronic myth, and further combined with transcendental philosophy in the manner of kant and hegel (& zwidorff?).

i've developed a concept-system that seems cohesive at the moment. so i continue to integrate different metaphorical and mythological as evidence for the very transcendental I'm describing. I think there is a non-myth at the heart of all our myths. something like an archetype that urges us to think, and by thinking make experience cohere in a way that seems more beautiful or pleasurable.

Assuming such a theory were true, my description of it would be the self-consciousness of the digital-spirit-reality(monism/nonism) it describes, ....and a description of this self-consciousness.
 
Alan McDougall
 
Reply Thu 4 Mar, 2010 12:00 am
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;135777 wrote:
here's what it's about. the jesus myth combined with a digital electronic myth, and further combined with transcendental philosophy in the manner of kant and hegel (& zwidorff?).

i've developed a concept-system that seems cohesive at the moment. so i continue to integrate different metaphorical and mythological as evidence for the very transcendental I'm describing. I think there is a non-myth at the heart of all our myths. something like an archetype that urges us to think, and by thinking make experience cohere in a way that seems more beautiful or pleasurable.

Assuming such a theory were true, my description of it would be the self-consciousness of the digital-spirit-reality(monism/nonism) it describes, ....and a description of this self-consciousness.


If Jesus is just a myth, then billions of people have been led up the garden path. Heck he got a lot of media for a guy that never existed
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Thu 4 Mar, 2010 12:20 am
@Alan McDougall,
Alan McDougall;135786 wrote:
If Jesus is just a myth, then billions of people have been led up the garden path. Heck he got a lot of media for a guy that never existed



I wouldn't want to reduce him to that. He functions in many ways in many systems. Experienced as history, the gospel is history. Experienced as myth, the gospel is myth. In any case, the myth is great. Also the king james translation is great.

Thing is, in my view, we are going to pick someone or another for our myth. Some moral-spiritual ideal personified. Jesus or Elvis or Einstein or Celebs or Athletes, etc.
 
Alan McDougall
 
Reply Thu 4 Mar, 2010 12:26 am
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;135791 wrote:
I wouldn't want to reduce him to that. He functions in many ways in many systems. Experienced as history, the gospel is history. Experienced as myth, the gospel is myth. In any case, the myth is great. Also the king james translation is great.

Thing is, in my view, we are going to pick someone or another for our myth. Some moral-spiritual ideal personified. Jesus or Elvis or Einstein or Celebs or Athletes, etc.


How can you equate the most remarkable the most influential person that ever walked the earth with Elvis, Celebrities and athletes? :perplexed: Smile
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Thu 4 Mar, 2010 12:31 am
@Alan McDougall,
Alan McDougall;135792 wrote:
How can you equate the most remarkable the most influential person that ever walked the earth with Elvis, Celebrities and athletes? :perplexed: Smile


To me, Jesus is a superior manifestation of the Ideal Man Myth. But perhaps there is a spectrum...in which rock stars n race car drivers can serve as a less developed "idolatry." To me, Jesus is a representation of the divine incarnate in man, totally incarnate. No remainder left for heaven. Gods die everyday.

---------- Post added 03-04-2010 at 01:33 AM ----------

Jesus is a symbol of the unity of the divine and human. That's why Hegel thought X was an absolute religion. It's a picture of the truth.
 
Fido
 
Reply Thu 4 Mar, 2010 12:03 pm
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;135774 wrote:
Innocence is always buried in us, if not already discovered. Wisdom/Science as the annihilation of throbbing errors?

The transcendental is the virgin eternal, as its program remains untouched, which is to evolve by synthesizing experience -- sin as a passing inferior synthesis, eventually re-synthesized as grace/wisdom?.

Consider the myth. Jesus is born of a virgin. Only the transcendental is virginal in man. The transcendental is read-only-memory. Personality is random-access-memory....? But when the computer is on (one) its ram and rom are one.(on)...? Is Jesus electrified ram-rom?

is ram the donut and rom the donut hole? is jesus prime (1 to the third plus i) just the self-consciousness of this rendezvous?

You certainly cleared that up for me.
 
Alan McDougall
 
Reply Thu 4 Mar, 2010 10:30 pm
@Fido,
Fido;135996 wrote:
You certainly cleared that up for me.


Did he/she really really?
 
Fido
 
Reply Thu 4 Mar, 2010 11:19 pm
@Alan McDougall,
Alan McDougall;136352 wrote:
Did he/she really really?

As clear as bloody mud...
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Fri 5 Mar, 2010 12:57 am
@Fido,
Fido;135996 wrote:
You certainly cleared that up for me.



to be honest, i was, at the time, "most high......."


But to vindicate my metaphors:

Quote:

The Transcendental Logic is that part of the Critique where Kant investigates the understanding and its role in constituting our knowledge. The understanding is defined as the faculty of the mind which deals with concepts (A51-52/B75-76).
Quote:

Because data stored in ROM cannot be modified (at least not very quickly or easily), it is mainly used to distribute firmware (software that is very closely tied to specific hardware, and unlikely to require frequent updates)

Quote:

The Gospel of John identifies the Logos, through which all things are made, as divine (theos),[4] and further identifies Jesus as the incarnation of the Logos.


---------- Post added 03-05-2010 at 02:04 AM ----------

i'm doing what james joyce did in finnegans wake
Reconstructo;135777 wrote:

i've developed a concept-system that seems cohesive at the moment. so i continue to integrate different metaphorical and mythological as evidence for the very transcendental I'm describing. I think there is a non-myth at the heart of all our myths.


Quote:

Despite Joyce's revolutionary techniques, the author repeatedly emphasized that the book was neither random nor meaningless; with Ellmann quoting the author as having stated: "I can justify every line of my book."[93] To Sisley Huddleston he stated "critics who were most appreciative of Ulysses are complaining about my new work. They cannot understand it. Therefore they say it is meaningless. Now if it were meaningless it could be written quickly without thought, without pains, without erudition; but I assure you that these 20 pages now before us [i.e. chapter I.8] cost me twelve hundred hours and an enormous expense of spirit." [94] When the editor of Vanity Fair asked Joyce if the sketches in Work in Progress were consecutive and interrelated, Joyce replied "It is all consecutive and interrelated."[95]
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
Reply Fri 5 Mar, 2010 01:16 am
@hue-man,
hue-man;102692 wrote:
Beauty is a value derived from the senses and perception. A truth is a logical and parsimonious consistency with evidence and other truths. There is no evidence or anything that would imply that beauty is anything more than a subjective notion that is based on the sensual and perceptual pleasure of a conscious observer.


Actually there are serious studies on this, that indicate that we tend to privilege harmonious geometrical patterns and symmetries, and identified them with Beauty. Of course there are variations in specific cultural tastes, but nevertheless, even this aspects still obey to those rules...So yes, there is evidence on what Beauty might be...:cool:
 
prothero
 
Reply Fri 5 Mar, 2010 01:20 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
Beauty speaks to the truth of human subjective experience.
Reason speaks to the truth of human objective experience.
Beauty is the splendor of truth, directly experienced intuitively.
Objective analysis does not improve on the experience of the beautiful.
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Fri 5 Mar, 2010 01:26 am
@prothero,
prothero;136392 wrote:

Reason speaks to the truth of human objective experience.

This is the part that seems tricky to me. I think that human logic is for humans a numen. Of course this Reason is certainly useful, no doubt.
 
Deckard
 
Reply Tue 9 Mar, 2010 02:29 pm
@prothero,
prothero;136392 wrote:
Beauty speaks to the truth of human subjective experience.
Reason speaks to the truth of human objective experience.
Beauty is the splendor of truth, directly experienced intuitively.
Objective analysis does not improve on the experience of the beautiful.


Friedrich Schiller's Aesthetic Education of Man taught that the aesthetic experience acted as bridge between subjective desire and objective truth.

"Only through Beauty's morning-gate, dost thou penetrate the land of knowledge."

Once one passes through that gate, does the experience of the beautiful pass away? During the process of objective analysis is the intuitive experience of the beautiful in any way muffled, stifled or extinguished? Rather I think that objective analysis can serve to sustain and improve that intuitive appreciation of the Beauty of Truth.
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Tue 9 Mar, 2010 05:45 pm
@Fido,
Fido;135771 wrote:
You only have that theory because you have never been nailed to a matress by some one like I used to be...No one I ever looked twice at was ever innocent again...On the bright side, it didn't kill them, but that was only luck...

So death is the true end of innocence.
The only end to innocence is death.
And yet some might say the only true innocence is death, because death is the only true thing there is.
Innocence is the only thing there is?

---------- Post added 03-09-2010 at 11:50 PM ----------

Reconstructo;135774 wrote:
Innocence is always buried in us, if not already discovered. Wisdom/Science as the annihilation of throbbing errors?

The transcendental is the virgin eternal, as its program remains untouched, which is to evolve by synthesizing experience -- sin as a passing inferior synthesis, eventually re-synthesized as grace/wisdom?.

Consider the myth. Jesus is born of a virgin. Only the transcendental is virginal in man. The transcendental is read-only-memory. Personality is random-access-memory....? But when the computer is on (one) its ram and rom are one.(on)...? Is Jesus electrified ram-rom?

is ram the donut and rom the donut hole? is jesus prime (1 to the third plus i) just the self-consciousness of this rendezvous?

I believe I am still a virgin even though i have had sex.
Does virginity have anything to do with sex?
Or is it just the correct kind of sex?
Can sex be correct? if you dont lose something and if you dont gain something else?
 
richard mcnair
 
Reply Tue 9 Mar, 2010 05:54 pm
@sometime sun,
Yes Beauty and love are indeed a kind of truth... the highest kind of truth in fact.

Many (most?) people would consider such an idea as a silly sentimentality, preffering cause and effect relations between objects as the only truth, but in an experience of love and beauty there is a sort of union of subject and object... or rather there is an experience without subject and object. Those so wrapped up in understanding cause and effect relations between objects struggle to understand that they are only focusing on one side of the picture, and that there is truth of a kind which transcends time and space, and even causality, and we glimpse this in experiences of love and beauty.
 
Fido
 
Reply Tue 9 Mar, 2010 10:43 pm
@sometime sun,
sometime sun;138019 wrote:
So death is the true end of innocence.
The only end to innocence is death.
And yet some might say the only true innocence is death, because death is the only true thing there is.
Innocence is the only thing there is?

---------- Post added 03-09-2010 at 11:50 PM ----------


I believe I am still a virgin even though i have had sex.
Does virginity have anything to do with sex?
Or is it just the correct kind of sex?
Can sex be correct? if you dont lose something and if you dont gain something else?

Innocense is another word for ignorant... Let it die in good time... Let everyone know everything because the innocent and the ignorant are God's own victims.

Fk innocence, and crave virtue... Be good by choice in all things, but never be ignorant...
 
Alan McDougall
 
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 01:04 am
@sometime sun,
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Mon 15 Mar, 2010 12:35 pm
@sometime sun,
[QUOTE=Sometimes Sun]Is Beauty Truth?[/QUOTE]A shrink is truth, telling truths.
 
Fido
 
Reply Mon 15 Mar, 2010 08:50 pm
@Alan McDougall,
Alan McDougall;138176 wrote:
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder

Holding bees is a good way to get stung...
 
 

 
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