Is Beauty Truth?

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Reconstructo
 
Reply Sun 14 Feb, 2010 07:31 pm
@Deckard,
Deckard;126661 wrote:
This makes one wonder about that historical period in which chant became cant. What sort of political/societal/cultural conditions allowed for this shifting of meaning? The Protestant Reformation?


That does seem reasonable. It also brings to mind a phrase like: "old so and so gave me the old song and dance again about etc."

---------- Post added 02-14-2010 at 08:33 PM ----------

Fido;128238 wrote:
What caused Carmen, song, to become charm... What caused rhyme to become a rhyme instead of a curse.



I'm going to guess here.

A song can certainly charm. I think it's an example of a trope gone wild.

I would also guess that curses tended to rhyme, as the magical (in my slight reading) tends to be poetic. Same thing, perhaps? Trope gone AWOL?
 
Alan McDougall
 
Reply Mon 15 Feb, 2010 02:09 am
@sometime sun,
The ultimate music instrument is the human voice truly the most beautiful thing in the world are singers like Sara Brighton bring music like angels into my home
 
Fido
 
Reply Wed 17 Feb, 2010 08:46 pm
@Alan McDougall,
Alan McDougall;128391 wrote:
The ultimate music instrument is the human voice truly the most beautiful thing in the world are singers like Sara Brighton bring music like angels into my home

People were much more conscious of the power of words in days past. Names gave power, order gave power, and the ability to evoke, and invoke with a word, was certainly beyond our comprehension... Yet there is plenty of evidence of it...
 
Deckard
 
Reply Thu 18 Feb, 2010 02:36 am
@Fido,
Fido;129511 wrote:
People were much more conscious of the power of words in days past. Names gave power, order gave power, and the ability to evoke, and invoke with a word, was certainly beyond our comprehension... Yet there is plenty of evidence of it...


The power of the word is still with us. Unfortunately, the most mysteriously powerful words today seem to be insults.
 
Fido
 
Reply Thu 18 Feb, 2010 08:40 am
@Deckard,
Deckard;129609 wrote:
The power of the word is still with us. Unfortunately, the most mysteriously powerful words today seem to be insults.

futility, as insults are, are not power...
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Fri 19 Feb, 2010 04:03 pm
@Fido,
Fido;129649 wrote:
futility, as insults are, are not power...



insults are weapons. Call a man this or that to break to his spirit, his faith in himself. Of course not all men are equally vulnerable.
 
Fido
 
Reply Fri 19 Feb, 2010 05:02 pm
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;130102 wrote:
insults are weapons. Call a man this or that to break to his spirit, his faith in himself. Of course not all men are equally vulnerable.

Insults are first of all untruths, because were they true they would be charges. They are used for injustice or not used at all...They are not communication but mis communication... They are used as weapons, but in the hand of humanity they have no more power than wind or any other natural force... In the hand of the demigogue they are poison to the political process.
 
Alan McDougall
 
Reply Sun 28 Feb, 2010 11:37 pm
@sometime sun,
Winston Churchill once stated after being rebuffed for saying people were lying in the House of Commons. So he rephrased his quote and replied indeed half the members in the House of Commons were telling the truth
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Sun 28 Feb, 2010 11:40 pm
@sometime sun,
Beauty is transcendental but not empirical truth. Or more precisely, beauty is an emotional response to the ideal, be it ideal geometry or ideal porn. Yes, folks, porn has its transcendental aspect.
 
prothero
 
Reply Sun 28 Feb, 2010 11:54 pm
@sometime sun,
Well the Truth is Beautiful
and
The Beautiful is True
and
both Truth and Beauty are Good.

That is all we can or need to know.
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Mon 1 Mar, 2010 12:21 am
@prothero,
prothero;133896 wrote:
Well the Truth is Beautiful
and
The Beautiful is True
and
both Truth and Beauty are Good.

That is all we can or need to know.


So much Wisdom in those words. More than ever it all clicks.
 
Fido
 
Reply Mon 1 Mar, 2010 01:44 pm
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;133886 wrote:
Beauty is transcendental but not empirical truth. Or more precisely, beauty is an emotional response to the ideal, be it ideal geometry or ideal porn. Yes, folks, porn has its transcendental aspect.

I have never had sexual relations with any girl where it was not serious business; but to look at porn is to see myself transendentally as a monkey trapped between tigers and eagles trying to rip off a quick one before some alpha tears off my junk... Sex is beyond value, great and tragic, and porn makes of my sparse pleasures a farce..
 
Gracee
 
Reply Mon 1 Mar, 2010 02:00 pm
@sometime sun,
Beauty may not be truth itself, but it is definitely borne out of the search for truth...
Look at all the great artists, starting with Cezane, he desperately wanted to find a way of representing reality, but he knew that 'the perceived contains the perceiver' (i.e. we can never know true reality because we each impart some of our own conceptual scheme - as Kant would say - on our view of the world). However, he eventually came to the view that the truth lies in geometric objects such as cubes, spheres, which - he thought - did not differ from person to person depending on each one's perception, hence the routes of Cubism.
In this way it seems that art and philosophy are closely linked, purely because, at the heart of both disciplines, lies the search for truth
(I am no art historian, this is just from what I have read, so apologies for any errors!)
 
Fido
 
Reply Mon 1 Mar, 2010 06:13 pm
@sometime sun,
I like art, and i have seen a bunch of good art... Like music, physical art is on the border between moral reality and physical reality...It can be measured, and checked, in a sense against reality, but each works, when they work on a spiritual level...
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Mon 1 Mar, 2010 06:21 pm
@Fido,
Fido;134168 wrote:
I have never had sexual relations with any girl where it was not serious business; but to look at porn is to see myself transendentally as a monkey trapped between tigers and eagles trying to rip off a quick one before some alpha tears off my junk... Sex is beyond value, great and tragic, and porn makes of my sparse pleasures a farce..


But that's the use of porn -- to isolate love from lust. We become conscious of our animal response to spatial archetypes....

What's left over is spiritualized or human eros.

---------- Post added 03-01-2010 at 07:22 PM ----------

Gracee;134177 wrote:
Beauty may not be truth itself, but it is definitely borne out of the search for truth.


I think that it can also be reversed, and that the search for truth is also the search for beauty, for the truth is beautiful.
 
Fido
 
Reply Mon 1 Mar, 2010 06:41 pm
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;134237 wrote:
But that's the use of porn -- to isolate love from lust. We become conscious of our animal response to spatial archetypes....

What's left over is spiritualized or human eros.


What's left over is the balance of your life minus the mess cleaned up... It has no meaning, and all we do should have meaning, because when it is all gone what else was there???
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Mon 1 Mar, 2010 08:45 pm
@Fido,
Fido;134249 wrote:
What's left over is the balance of your life minus the mess cleaned up... It has no meaning, and all we do should have meaning, because when it is all gone what else was there???


I think there's a transcendental to lust, that connects it with the spiritual. I think we are dealing with a spectrum, that runs from red to violet.

A virgin is not innocent but ignorant. True innocence is born of experience......
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Wed 3 Mar, 2010 05:22 pm
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;134308 wrote:
True innocence is born of experience......
PLEASE elabourate.
I have a theory that innocense can NEVER be lost as long as we keep looking.
 
Fido
 
Reply Wed 3 Mar, 2010 11:16 pm
@sometime sun,
sometime sun;135658 wrote:
PLEASE elabourate.
I have a theory that innocense can NEVER be lost as long as we keep looking.

You only have that theory because you have never been nailed to a matress by some one like I used to be...No one I ever looked twice at was ever innocent again...On the bright side, it didn't kill them, but that was only luck...
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Wed 3 Mar, 2010 11:22 pm
@sometime sun,
sometime sun;135658 wrote:
PLEASE elabourate.
I have a theory that innocense can NEVER be lost as long as we keep looking.


Innocence is always buried in us, if not already discovered. Wisdom/Science as the annihilation of throbbing errors?

The transcendental is the virgin eternal, as its program remains untouched, which is to evolve by synthesizing experience -- sin as a passing inferior synthesis, eventually re-synthesized as grace/wisdom?.

Consider the myth. Jesus is born of a virgin. Only the transcendental is virginal in man. The transcendental is read-only-memory. Personality is random-access-memory....? But when the computer is on (one) its ram and rom are one.(on)...? Is Jesus electrified ram-rom?

is ram the donut and rom the donut hole? is jesus prime (1 to the third plus i) just the self-consciousness of this rendezvous?
 
 

 
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