Isn't the Trinity Logically Impossible

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Didymos Thomas
 
Reply Sun 1 Mar, 2009 10:03 pm
@Fido,
I'm not sure about logical correctness, or even if that matters, but, yes, the message of Jesus and of Muhammad are essentially the same: love everyone, everywhere at all times.
 
Fido
 
Reply Sun 1 Mar, 2009 10:08 pm
@Axis Austin,
Love God and love humanity.... But Islam does not believe in taking any kind of crap off anyone... They are the original John Wayne toilet paper...
 
Didymos Thomas
 
Reply Sun 1 Mar, 2009 10:09 pm
@Fido,
I don't follow you.
 
Fido
 
Reply Mon 2 Mar, 2009 05:55 am
@Didymos Thomas,
Didymos Thomas wrote:
I don't follow you.

What part didn't you get???
 
Bostonian phil
 
Reply Mon 2 Mar, 2009 06:16 am
@Fido,
[quote=Fido]
Scuse me...Is that a fact????
[/quote]
Is what a fact? That Islam holds Jesus to be the Messiah? Yes. That's a fact.
[quote=Fido]
Maybe the Messiah does not actually equate to God... My understanding is that they hold Jesus to be a prophet in the old testament tradition...
[/quote]
The Koran refers to Jesus as the Messiah.
 
Bostonian phil
 
Reply Mon 2 Mar, 2009 06:18 am
@Fido,
Fido wrote:
Love God and love humanity.... But Islam does not believe in taking any kind of crap off anyone... They are the original John Wayne toilet paper...
That's a misleading assertion. It implies that Islam approves of attacking people who disagree with their religion and that certainly isn't true.
 
Fido
 
Reply Mon 2 Mar, 2009 06:49 am
@Axis Austin,
Islam does not take abouse from people, and they should not... They are enjoined to quit attacking people who quit attacking them, and to show mercy...
 
Fido
 
Reply Mon 2 Mar, 2009 06:51 am
@Bostonian phil,
Bostonian wrote:

Is what a fact? That Islam holds Jesus to be the Messiah? Yes. That's a fact.

The Koran refers to Jesus as the Messiah.

I have read in the Holy Koran... I have not read the whole book, and I have not read that; and I am not at all certain that Messiah equates to God, which they do not accept in regard to Jesus...
 
Bostonian phil
 
Reply Mon 2 Mar, 2009 07:19 am
@Fido,
Fido wrote:
I have read in the Holy Koran... I have not read the whole book, and I have not read that; and I am not at all certain that Messiah equates to God, which they do not accept in regard to Jesus...

See
CRCC: Center For Muslim-Jewish Engagement: Resources: Religious Texts
Quote:

PICKTHAL: (And remember) when the angels said: O Mary! Lo! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a word from him, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, illustrious in the world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near (unto Allah).
SHAKIR: When the angels said: O Marium, surely Allah gives you good news with a Word from Him (of one) whose name is the '. Messiah, Isa son of Marium, worthy of regard in this world and the hereafter and of those who are made near (to Allah).

You can go to
CRCC: Center For Muslim-Jewish Engagement: Resources: Religious Texts
and type in "Messiah" and it will come up with the following list of instances
003.045 004.157 004.171 004.172 005.017 005.072 005.075 009.030 009.031
 
Bostonian phil
 
Reply Mon 2 Mar, 2009 07:20 am
@Fido,
Fido wrote:
Islam does not take abouse from people, ......

In that sense neither do Christians or Jews
 
Fido
 
Reply Mon 2 Mar, 2009 10:38 am
@Bostonian phil,
Bostonian wrote:
In that sense neither do Christians or Jews

Christians are supposed to turn the other cheek, and if they sue the shirt off our backs we are supposed to give them our pants too.. Imagine that....
 
Fido
 
Reply Mon 2 Mar, 2009 11:12 am
@Bostonian phil,

According to Zondervan's Pictoral Bible Dictionary, Messiah has the approximate meaning of christos, as christos is, I believe, even to day the oil christians are anointed with when christened ...It has the meaning usually of king, or of some one dedicated to a special purpose such as being a prophet...Since the notice above Jesus said King of the Jews, I trust it is for that cause he was killed, though he suffered as a criminal, the cross was often reserved for revolutionaries...

A curoius fact I just discovered is that the termination -iano's, meant the slave of the one with which it was compounded.... That means Christians are supposed to be the slaves of Christ... Of, course; it was like many names in history, like whig, or torrey, or bolshevic; -meant as an insult, and worn as a badge of honor...
 
Bostonian phil
 
Reply Mon 2 Mar, 2009 08:10 pm
@Fido,
Fido wrote:
Christians are supposed to turn the other cheek, and if they sue the shirt off our backs we are supposed to give them our pants too.. Imagine that....
That was a command not to take vengeance. That doesn't meant that you're supposed to ignore people who are trying to do you serious harm you or kill you.

See Turning the other cheek - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Bostonian phil
 
Reply Mon 2 Mar, 2009 08:23 pm
@Fido,
Fido wrote:
According to Zondervan's Pictoral Bible Dictionary, Messiah has the approximate meaning of christos, as christos is, I believe, even to day the oil christians are anointed with when christened ...

That's misleading. From Illustrated Dictionary of the Bible - The word Messiah comes from a Hebrew term that means "anointed one." Its Greek counterpart is Christo, from which the term Christ comes. The Messiah in the New Testament refers to the one anointed by God and empowered by God's spirit to deliver His people and establish His kingdom.

The term Christian is used in Acts 11:26 where it says
Quote:

So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.


What does this have to do with Jesus being the Messiah in the Koran?
 
Fido
 
Reply Tue 3 Mar, 2009 06:14 am
@Bostonian phil,
Bostonian wrote:
That's misleading. From Illustrated Dictionary of the Bible - The word Messiah comes from a Hebrew term that means "anointed one." Its Greek counterpart is Christo, from which the term Christ comes. The Messiah in the New Testament refers to the one anointed by God and empowered by God's spirit to deliver His people and establish His kingdom.

The term Christian is used in Acts 11:26 where it says


What does this have to do with Jesus being the Messiah in the Koran?

Nothing. Where does Messiah mean God?
 
Elmud
 
Reply Thu 5 Mar, 2009 08:15 pm
@Axis Austin,
Axis Austin wrote:
Growing up as a Christian, I thought God could do anything, including the logically impossible. Once I became a competent philosopher I concluded, as I think most would, that God cannot make square circles. Further, I don't think it is just philosophers who've realized this, but most Christians as well. But isn't the idea of the Holy Trinity, the idea that God is both WHOLLY one and WHOLLY separate, logically impossible? Yet most Christians believe in this, and I personally have not come up with a satisfactory answer for myself. Any thoughts?:perplexed:

Anything that has specifically been described as being "mysterious", is of course, logically impossible to perceive.
 
Didymos Thomas
 
Reply Fri 6 Mar, 2009 06:33 pm
@Elmud,
It isn't logically impossible to perceive it just defies logic.
 
Caroline
 
Reply Fri 6 Mar, 2009 06:58 pm
@de budding,
de_budding wrote:
And the idea that God is All loving, All knowing and All powerful I find a nonsense. In regards to suffering: If God is All loving he would not allow us to suffer, so it is said the world is just like that, its out of his hands, then what of his All knowingness? He would have seen that coming a mile off, and what kind of All powerful being can not rectify such a silly little error like the invention of suffering?

I think it is blindingly obvious as well that all God's Omni-essence is just the projection of human values/desire.

Any ways, I have never seen any direct sense in the idea of the Holy Trinity either, religion worked for me until I was like 10, then when people (clergy & bible club)began to get 'clever', trying to interpret what I had assumed to be fables and myths as philosophically profound reality, I was confused and turned off. Christianity only ever worked for me as abstract & symbolic fables.

Dan.

God cannot control man whom creates much of the suffering in the world, man has free will therefore it is up to us. God is a seperate essence and part of everything, as a collective, as a higher state of being, generally coming together during a fantastical event involving the pure and true.
Things like tidal waves etc, (physical phenomena),happen because of the earths physics, the suffering/devastation it causes to humankind cannot be controlled by God as we are part of God and God is part of us, nature demands the earth to change physically and technology permits us to predict some events and again are free will enables us to get out of the way. We question God during natural tragic events because we have feelings/emotions-sadness and we have no control, it is a mis-conception to believe God controls everything where infact God is a powerful essence but not necessarily in control of the universe, which we do not fully understand the full workings of the universe, but it is made up of numerous different things, for instance what is the black mass?
P.S.I cant spell
 
Caroline
 
Reply Fri 6 Mar, 2009 07:23 pm
@Axis Austin,
Im not religous by the way.
 
FireInTheWater
 
Reply Fri 6 Mar, 2009 07:30 pm
@Didymos Thomas,
The Trinity is the "Family" except that, since the female mind could not be understood when the Bible was written, the "Mother" part was left out and the "Holy Spirit" was inserted due to the mystery mind of the woman.

Thus, The Father, Son and Holy Spirit should have been

The Father, Son and Holy Mother.

The latter makes logical sense because that is the patriarchal minimum for a family.
 
 

 
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