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It is observed that for a person to determine a statement to be "true", they compare said statement with what is observed
Which brings the discussion to the ultimate prize of the armchair philosopher, "Absolute truth". Distrustful of perception, the armchair philosopher yearns for some "transcendent truth to be directly percieved without the aid of(stupid I know) perception". To them, reality is something "behind" observation. Yet they yearn to observe it.
Ayer's logical empiricism makes an important contribution to philosophy in that it provides a method of putting an end to otherwise irresolvable philosophical disputes. In Ayer's logical empiricism, philosophy is no longer seen as a metaphysical concern, nor as an attempt to provide speculative truths about the nature of ultimate reality. Instead, philosophy is seen as an activity of defining and clarifying the logical relationships of empirical propositions.
I was getting at the idea that the word 'truth' has different meanings in different contexts. For example, even though 'water consists of hydrogen and oxygen' and 'I am sorry to inform you that your [wife/sister/daughter] has been killed in an aircraft accident' are both true statements, the kinds of truth that is being conveyed are vastly different. One is a bald factual statement, the other a significant life event. There are many other kinds of truth that we have to wrestle with in life - difficult things to discover, hard facts about the way people behave, and so on.
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None of that means that the notion of truth is different in both cases. To say that both statements are true is to say that both correspond to a fact. You are talking about something quite extraneous to the notion of truth, namely the significance that the statement has for the audience. It is about the statement, not about the truth of the statement. The statements are very different in how they affect people, but that has nothing at all with why the statements are both true. You have to distinguish between the significance of the statement, and the truth of the statement.
As in so many of these discussions about truth, much confusion arises from the multiple meanings of the word 'truth'.
As in so many of these discussions about truth, much confusion arises from the multiple meanings of the word 'truth'. For example, it can mean correspondence to a fact or facts (the truth), or it can mean the fact itself (a truth). Kennethamy is using it in the former sense, while jeeprs (I think) is using it in the latter. I suggest we say that the two statements are the truth about different kinds of fact.
Glad to ...
Correspondence: --------------------------
The most famous version of this theory was given by Aristotle in 335 BC in his Metaphysics, Book IV, Chapter 7 [26]
To say of what is, that it is not; or of what is not, that it is- is false. While to say of what is, that it is; and of what is not, that it is not- is true.
Randall, J. & Buchler, J.; Philosophy: An Introduction. p133
According to this theory (correspondence), truth consists in the agreement of our thought with reality. This view ... seems to conform rather closely to our ordinary common sense usage when we speak of truth. The flaws in the definition arise when we ask what is meant by "agreement" or "correspondence" of ideas and objects, beliefs and facts, thought and reality. In order to test the truth of an idea or belief we must presumably compare it with the reality in some sense.
1- In order to make the comparison, we must know what it is that we are comparing, namely, the belief on the one hand and the reality on the other. But if we already know the reality, why do we need to make a comparison? And if we don't know the reality, how can we make a comparison?
2- The making of the comparison is itself a fact about which we have a belief. We have to believe that the belief about the comparison is true. How do we know that our belief in this agreement is "true"? This leads to an infinite regress, leaving us with no assurance of true belief.
Brightman, E. S.; Philosophy of Religion, Ch4.
Correspondence fails because it can never be applied to a situation. A present proposition is impossible to compare with a past, future or an eternal object; such a comparison would require the past, the future or eternity to be now present for comparison, which is a plain impossibility.
Even propositions about the present are incapable of being tested by correspondence; for the process of comparison would take time and before it had occurred, the present object would have become past.
Correspondence fails because it is not a criterion of truth.
Correspondence fails because it is not a source of truth.
Rescher, N.; The Coherence Theory of Truth, p8.
(Correspondence is) ... not workable for genuinely universal propositions: how can one possibly check ... the 'correspondence with the facts' of a universal proposition with potential infinity of instances? e.g. All lions are carnivorous.
Beck, L.W. & Holmes, R.L.; Philosophic Inquiry, p130.
Although it seems ... obvious to say, "Truth is correspondence of thought (belief, proposition) to what is actually the case", such an assertion nevertheless involves a metaphysical assumption - that there is a fact, object, or state of affairs, independent of our knowledge to which our knowledge corresponds.
"How, on your principles, could you know you have a true proposition?" ... or ... "How can you use your definition of truth, it being the correspondence between a judgment and its object, as a criterion of truth? How can you know when such correspondence actually holds?"
I cannot step outside my mind to compare a thought in it with something outside it.
Hospers, J.; An Introduction to Philosophical Analysis, p116.
Does a true proposition correspond to a fact in the way that the color sample on the color chart corresponds to the color of the paint on the wall? No, there is certainly no resemblance between a proposition and a state-of-affairs. .
Priest, Graham; Truth & Contradiction, Philos. Qtly, v50;n200;p317;2000
. . . it is not clear that we meet any facts in experience. We meet people, stars, chairs, and other objects, but not facts or states of affairs. And if this is so, and the objection is cogent, it tells against all correspondence theories of truth.
Ewing, A.C.; The Fundamental Questions of Philosophy, pp54-55.
The word 'correspondence' suggests that, when we make a true judgment, we have a sort of picture of the real in our minds and that our judgment is true because this picture is like the reality it represents. But our judgments are not like the physical things to which they refer. The images we use in judging may indeed in certain respects copy or resemble physical things, but we can make a judgment without using any imagery except words, and words are not in the least similar to the things which they represent. We must not understand 'correspondence' as meaning copying or even resemblance.
p57- ... the correspondence theory . . . does not give us much information unless we can succeed in defining correspondence, and unfortunately nobody has been able yet to give a satisfactory definition.
Brennan, J. G.; The Meaning of Philosophy, p78.
A less ambiguous formulation of the correspondence theory is: "A sentence is true if there are such facts as it designates." There cannot be an exact correspondence between a sentence and a situation in the empirical world, for there are no sentences in Nature. - The correspondence theory tries to explain what is the case when a sentence is true. It says nothing about how we discover or how we prove that a sentence corresponds to the facts.
Vision, Gerald; Veritas, px
... the correspondence theory doesn't tell us directly what, if anything, is true: that is, it doesn't carry immediate implications for the extension of the property of truth. It doesn't even, as some of its competitors do, give us something to go by, a criterion, for detecting particular truths.
Aquinas, Thomas; Truth, Vol. II, Qs. 10, Article 4.
All cognition takes place through assimilation. But there is no assimilation possible between the mind and material things, because likeness depends on sameness of quality. However, the qualities of material things are bodily accidents which cannot exist in the mind. Therefore, the mind cannot know material things.
Morton, A. & Stich, S., eds.; Benacerraf and his Critics, p61
... what is missing [with correspondence] is precisely... an account of the link between our cognitive faculties and the objects known.
Frege, G.; The Thought: A Logical Inquiry, In Strawson, P.F., ed. Philosophical Logic, p19
Truth cannot tolerate a more or less. Can it not be laid down that truth exists when there is a correspondence in a certain respect? But in which? For what would we then have to do to decide whether something were true? We should have to inquire whether it were true that an idea and a reality, perhaps, corresponded in the laid-down respect. And then we should be confronted by a question of the same kind and the game could begin again. So the attempt to explain truth as correspondence collapses... Consequently, it is probable that the content of the word 'true' is unique and indefinable.
Kaufmann, F.; Basic Issues in Logical Positivism, in Philosophic Thought in France & the US., p568
... we cannot compare propositions with reality, but only with other propositions. This amounts to the rejection of correspondence theories of truth...
Ewing, A.C.
p57- ... the correspondence theory . . . does not give us much information unless we can succeed in defining correspondence, and unfortunately nobody has been able yet to give a satisfactory definition.
Suppose I believe Mary is at home. I note that her only car is in her driveway, that the lights are on, and that Mary's favorite music is blaring from the house. So I knock on Mary's door, and Mary answers, and welcomes me in. Do I now know that it is true that Mary is home?
Just because many people agree on a prop. does not guarantee its validity.
i agree saiima that the definitions are bound to be incomplete. Which is kind of unsatisfying. That disatisfaction, how important it is to us and for how long we experience it moves us on in one way or another.
Which is to say that i believe your statement is true in the sense i agree with you. Namely i trust we share many thoughts and feelings on the subject.... but we can also agree that something is a clock also, for all practical purposes (of that time). Another time (another narrative) and we can agree that it isn't a clock.
If you both agree at one time that something is a clock, and if you agree a minute later that something is not a clock, are you right both times, or wrong both times? Or, doesn't it matter? Do you agree on that?
Plato did not impose his ideas on his pupils or expound them systematically, like a modern academic, but introduced them playfully and allusively in the course of a conversation in which other viewpoints were also expressed. In his writings we find no definitive account of the 'doctrine of the forms', for example, because each dialog was addressed to a different audience with its own needs and problems. His written work...was no substitute for the intensity of a oral dialogue that had an emotional aspect that was essential to the philosophical experience (emphasis added)...
'It is only when all these things, names and definitions, visual and other sensations, are rubbed together and subjected to tests to which questions and answers are exchanged in good faith and without malice that finally when human capacity is stretched to the limit, a spark of understanding and intelligence flashes out and illuminates the issue.'
Pp 72-73