Who's afraid of death?

Get Email Updates Email this Topic Print this Page

TickTockMan
 
Reply Mon 3 Nov, 2008 10:31 am
@boagie,
boagie;31038 wrote:
Khethil,Smile

Not only does it keep one alive, it also keeps us from many a foolish enterprize. Unfortunately it sometimes keeps us from living a full life, so, as I have said before, it can be a two edged sword.


Well, technically it doesn't keep us alive as we're going to die regardless.

But yes, this fear does indeed make it more difficult to enjoy life to its fullest.
 
boagie
 
Reply Mon 3 Nov, 2008 11:12 am
@TickTockMan,
TickTockMan,Smile

I do not agree that the fear of death does not keep you alive, I believe that is its first function. When a doctors saves your life, he does not remove the inevitable temporality of your existence, he never the less, does save your life, in that he extends the due date.
 
Icon
 
Reply Mon 3 Nov, 2008 11:25 am
@BrightNoon,
The fear of dying is the fear of ceasing to be.

I do not share this sentament as I would be dreadfully bored to live out eternity in either heaven or hell. Forever is an awefully long time and I do not wish to exist that long. Eventually, all things must end. I do not look forward to the day in which I cease to be but I do not fear it. Fighting it only seems like it would make for a rather unpleasant last few moments. Instead, I shall follow in Socrates foot steps and state that, because I have no idea what will happen, I will not fear it and instead I will take it with a gaze of curiosity until whatever DOES happen, happens.



The fear of death may or may not KEEP you alive but it certainly seems to be an affirmation of it. After all, you cannot be afraid of becoming dead once you are dead now can you?
 
TickTockMan
 
Reply Mon 3 Nov, 2008 11:34 am
@boagie,
boagie;31145 wrote:
TickTockMan,Smile

I do not agree that the fear of death does not keep you alive, I believe that is its first function. When a doctors saves your life, he does not remove the inevitable temporality of your existence, he never the less, does save your life, in that he extends the due date.


Perhaps, perhaps not. If you believe in fate, as I tend to, the argument could be put forth that the doctor was only able to "save" your life by virtue of the fact that it was not yet your time to go.
 
TickTockMan
 
Reply Mon 3 Nov, 2008 11:41 am
@Icon,
Icon;31149 wrote:
The fear of dying is the fear of ceasing to be.
Fighting it only seems like it would make for a rather unpleasant last few moments.


The movie Jacob's Ladder explores this idea brilliantly, I think.
 
Gwyniviere
 
Reply Mon 3 Nov, 2008 11:55 am
@boagie,
boagie wrote:
Gwyniviere,Smile

Not really, how indeed does the topic of the will to grow enter into this? How could one confuse it with the fear of death?


Ok Boagie....this is where I think I was going with my rather hasty comment to you on confusing the fear of death with the will to grow. It appears we (for the most part) agree that the fear of death is inherent in all living organisms, and is vital for survival. Then, is not this fear essentially an extension of Nietzche's "will to power"?
I thank you in advance for your patience with me.
 
OctoberMist
 
Reply Wed 12 Nov, 2008 11:30 pm
@BrightNoon,
BrightNoon said:

Quote:

By death I mean either the event of dying or the state of being dead.


I have no fear of being dead.

Quote:

I don't want to sound callous, I love life. I just feel that there is a needless fear of something absolutely certain to happen and without which, life would eventually become much more horrible, in my opinion. Also, not that I'm in any hurry, but when that time does arrive, I'd rather like to see what all the fuss is about...:bigsmile:


I quite agree with this statement.
 
boagie
 
Reply Thu 13 Nov, 2008 12:05 am
@Gwyniviere,
Gwyniviere,Smile

Now you have me intrigued, how do you equate the instinct for self -preservation to the will to power? It almost seems the opposite of power, I am all ears however. The fear of death, not many people would see that as self-empowering.
 
Gwyniviere
 
Reply Thu 13 Nov, 2008 11:21 pm
@boagie,
boagie wrote:
Gwyniviere,Smile

Now you have me intrigued, how do you equate the instinct for self -preservation to the will to power? It almost seems the opposite of power, I am all ears however. The fear of death, not many people would see that as self-empowering.

In order to have the will to power we must first have the will to survive and grow. This is in accord with your statement that the fear of death is based upon our instinct for survival. If we fear death-we wish to survive; if we wish to survive-we wish to grow. The wish for growth is for the goal of power. Power is what ensures survival.
 
Aedes
 
Reply Thu 13 Nov, 2008 11:30 pm
@TickTockMan,
TickTockMan;31152 wrote:
If you believe in fate, as I tend to, the argument could be put forth that the doctor was only able to "save" your life by virtue of the fact that it was not yet your time to go.
This is a strange argument.

If you truly believe in fate, then the doctor doesn't do anything. You can lie out in the road with a steering wheel sticking out of your skull, but if it isn't your time to go then it doesn't matter whether you see a doctor or not.

And if you argue that your conception of fate impels the doctor to do the lifesaving stuff in order that you die at the correct time, then you believe in a lot more than fate -- you believe in wholesale predeterminism and have no belief in free will.
 
TickTockMan
 
Reply Fri 14 Nov, 2008 03:17 pm
@Aedes,
Aedes;33274 wrote:

And if you argue that your conception of fate impels the doctor to do the lifesaving stuff in order that you die at the correct time, then you believe in a lot more than fate -- you believe in wholesale predeterminism and have no belief in free will.


It's a bit more complicated than that in my head (like many borderline psychotic delusions), but yeah, that pretty much sums it up.

Yet, strangely, I feel that we need to be responsible for our actions,
and that what we do while here on this particular plane of existence
makes a difference.

Go figure . . .

I never claimed to be well in the head.
 
Aedes
 
Reply Fri 14 Nov, 2008 09:35 pm
@TickTockMan,
TickTockMan;33360 wrote:
yeah, that pretty much sums it up... Yet, strangely, I feel that we need to be responsible for our actions,
and that what we do while here on this particular plane of existence
makes a difference... I never claimed to be well in the head.
Laughing

I can tell you that I as a practicing physician do NOT feel that there is fate, or that people have "their time". And that's not because I have so much control over what happens to sick people -- it's mainly because of the conversations I have with the family members of dying patients. If you do this job long enough you get pretty familiar with end-of-life conversations. If someone doesn't die of one thing, they're eventually going to die of something else. So there are times when we opt not to treat routine things (like pneumonia or heart failure or kidney infections or even heart attacks) in people who are old and have a miserable quality of life. Sure, I can cure their pneumonia, but they'll still be 94, demented, and bedridden; so they may die of untreated pneumonia now, or they may die of something else in a month or a year. And at the other end of the spectrum there is a HUGE sense of injustice and futility when someone dies prematurely. Half my job is pediatric infectious diseases, so much of what I see are children who have AIDS or some form of cancer -- and nothing is going to convince me that dying at 5 years of age should be chalked up to fate. We may not be able to stop it, but hell, it's WORTH fighting that.
 
TickTockMan
 
Reply Sat 15 Nov, 2008 01:55 pm
@Aedes,
Aedes;33394 wrote:
And at the other end of the spectrum there is a HUGE sense of injustice and futility when someone dies prematurely. Half my job is pediatric infectious diseases, so much of what I see are children who have AIDS or some form of cancer -- and nothing is going to convince me that dying at 5 years of age should be chalked up to fate.


Keeping in mind that what I post on this forum may or may not be what I actually believe, and just for the sake of discussion, let me ask this: if dying at 5 years of age is not fate, what is it? What is the alternative to fate?

If we assume, for the sake of argument, that there are only two choices of a Universe, which would you choose, and why?

A) Deterministic Universe.
B) Indeterministic/Random Chaotic Universe.


Aedes;33394 wrote:
We may not be able to stop it, but hell, it's WORTH fighting that.

Yes. Yes it is.

----------------

Quote:
DO NOT GO GENTLE INTO THAT GOOD NIGHT

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

--Dylan Thomas
 
BrightNoon
 
Reply Sun 16 Nov, 2008 03:40 pm
@TickTockMan,
TickTockMan wrote:
Yet, strangely, I feel that we need to be responsible for our actions,
and that what we do while here on this particular plane of existence
makes a difference.


Well I don't know about responsibility in a moral sense, but what we do certainly does make a difference, regardless of whether or not we have 'chosen' to do it. The fact that we may have to make the choices we do does not make them any less consequential.
 
wallacemonette
 
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2008 12:39 am
@Khethil,
Quote:
Were you uncomfortable when your parents met?
Quote:


haha, that's funny. no, I'm not afraid to die. In a way I'm looking forward to it
 
catfood phil
 
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2008 04:57 pm
@BrightNoon,
Im not afraid of being dead, what I am afraid of however is the felling of helplessness and the fear when the doctor says something like 'you have only got 3 weeks to live'.
 
ratta
 
Reply Sat 27 Dec, 2008 03:19 pm
@BrightNoon,
i know a woman who died to save my life and she would have died for ures
 
Legacy phil
 
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2009 01:42 am
@BrightNoon,
The thought of being dead 'is not what scares me. The thought of losing my identity is what scares me. Will you still be you how will you distinguish yourself from anything if there is anything were you are. Or will the countless thoughts, memories, and experiences you've gained during your lifetime cease to exist. Death is unavoidable the thought of forgetting who i am is what is some what worrying.
 
hue-man
 
Reply Thu 16 Apr, 2009 09:33 am
@BrightNoon,
BrightNoon wrote:
By death I mean either the event of dying or the state of being dead. I don't see how either is especially frightening, unless you expect to go to hell or some such place, in which case I would guess your life was somewhat disagreeable as well. To fear the event itself somewhat, I can understand; I imagine it would be something like being punched extremely hard in the jaw and being knocked unconcious, depending on the sort of death you had. Of course, there are potentially horrific deaths, but I hope no one is expecting to be burned at the stake. Being dead itself seems perfectly fine to me; it is not any kind of experience. Were you uncomfortable the day your parents met?

I don't want to sound callous, I love life. I just feel that there is a needless fear of something absolutely certain to happen and without which, life would eventually become much more horrible, in my opinion. Also, not that I'm in any hurry, but when that time does arrive, I'd rather like to see what all the fuss is about...:bigsmile:


I agree with you. I'm not really afraid of the state of non-existence itself, if it can even be considered to be a state at all. I'm more afraid of experiencing pain during the process of dying.

Death is usually viewed as a misfortune, but not only because of the possibility of extreme pain. People don't like the idea of losing their consciousness or experience. Self-preservation and the will to live is a part of our animal nature. People also don't like leaving their loved ones behind.

I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.
- Mark Twain
 
TickTockMan
 
Reply Tue 21 Apr, 2009 11:16 am
@Legacy phil,
Legacy;57137 wrote:
The thought of being dead 'is not what scares me. The thought of losing my identity is what scares me. Will you still be you how will you distinguish yourself from anything if there is anything were you are. Or will the countless thoughts, memories, and experiences you've gained during your lifetime cease to exist. Death is unavoidable the thought of forgetting who i am is what is some what worrying.


Remember how you felt in the 15th century? This next time around will feel
a lot like that.
 
 

 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.02 seconds on 06/19/2024 at 08:28:19