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HexHammer
 
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2010 11:40 pm
@Eudaimon,
Eudaimon;155156 wrote:
So what? I am not speaking of possible social benefits of pornography, I am speaking of the moral side of the matter, how it influence the minds of the people.
Thou ways art wicked and foolish. Seeing such huge benefit only through a moral perspective is very cynically. Such ways art the foundation of a dictatorship, tyrrany ..Thine ways would be such as Hitler. When christiannity such as yours will siese to exist, we may have world peace.
 
Eudaimon
 
Reply Sat 24 Apr, 2010 03:48 am
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;155546 wrote:
Thou ways art wicked and foolish. Seeing such huge benefit only through a moral perspective is very cynically. Such ways art the foundation of a dictatorship, tyrrany ..Thine ways would be such as Hitler. When christiannity such as yours will siese to exist, we may have world peace.

Seeing things through the moral perspective only is the foundation of tyranny and dictatorship? I have always thought the reason why Hitler, Stalin and those of their ilk did all those terrible things is exactly that they were looking upon a human as upon means to achieve a certain pragmatical goal.
Not an offence, but the idea that morality is the foundation of tyranny sounds ridiculous. Hitler hated the very idea of morality, and so did communists. Thou art welcome to read some of their "scriptures"
FYI, I am not christian. Apparently for thee morality is connected with religion, but that's false. Morality has independent status, this is the things which leads to happiness whcih cannot be gained through a certain arrangement of worldly things. Compassion is the manifestation of morality, and to neglect it is to deprive oneself of happiness. We always do that, we live for our pleasures regardless of others and that is why our life is so miserable.
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Sat 24 Apr, 2010 02:23 pm
@Eudaimon,
Eudaimon;155994 wrote:
Seeing things through the moral perspective only is the foundation of tyranny and dictatorship? I have always thought the reason why Hitler, Stalin and those of their ilk did all those terrible things is exactly that they were looking upon a human as upon means to achieve a certain pragmatical goal.
Not an offence, but the idea that morality is the foundation of tyranny sounds ridiculous. Hitler hated the very idea of morality, and so did communists. Thou art welcome to read some of their "scriptures"
FYI, I am not christian. Apparently for thee morality is connected with religion, but that's false. Morality has independent status, this is the things which leads to happiness whcih cannot be gained through a certain arrangement of worldly things. Compassion is the manifestation of morality, and to neglect it is to deprive oneself of happiness. We always do that, we live for our pleasures regardless of others and that is why our life is so miserable.
Not quite, I was blaming you for not seeing the so obvious good side effects porn has, that's why I compare your thinking to a dictatorship. Only dictators can be so narrowminded as you, in your former post.
 
Eudaimon
 
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2010 07:54 am
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;156139 wrote:
Not quite, I was blaming you for not seeing the so obvious good side effects porn has, that's why I compare your thinking to a dictatorship. Only dictators can be so narrowminded as you, in your former post.

Well, I really can't grasp how I got into the company of dictators, surely they were not so narrow-minded as ISmile, unlike me they saw the benefits that murder or coercive labour has...
Now, the good sides of pornography... I did not get from thee the answer on my question: is that right/good to carry out experiments on people, if say it will lead to eradication of diseases of majority?
All things are divided into three categories: good, evil and indifferent. The first two are moral (causing happiness) and immoral (causing suffering) things. The indifferent things are divided into preferable and unpreferable. Social order is not good, it is indifferent yet preferable, so if it doesn't lead to evil we choose that. Sacrificing another person, approving that is immoral and therefore evil. So if keeping social order demands making evil for me, why on earth should sacrifice my happiness for the sake of indifferent social order?
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2010 09:16 pm
@Eudaimon,
Eudaimon;156388 wrote:
All things are divided into three categories: good, evil and indifferent. The first two are moral (causing happiness) and immoral (causing suffering) things.
This is a very simple vay to look at it. It is something I would expect 100 years ago, not in modern time.

Please point me out something good, christianity? Filled with pedos which the pope has been trying to keep his hand over? Or the religious wars they have caused? Those chatholic children homes which had so much abuse, both in violence and sexual abuse, besides they would raise these kids in a very naivistic way, making them glaringly ignorent about life, thus victims of scammers, demagogues ..etc.

Do you know what you are talking about?
 
Eudaimon
 
Reply Mon 26 Apr, 2010 09:19 am
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;156626 wrote:
This is a very simple vay to look at it. It is something I would expect 100 years ago, not in modern time.

Please point me out something good, christianity? Filled with pedos which the pope has been trying to keep his hand over? Or the religious wars they have caused? Those chatholic children homes which had so much abuse, both in violence and sexual abuse, besides they would raise these kids in a very naivistic way, making them glaringly ignorent about life, thus victims of scammers, demagogues ..etc.

Do you know what you are talking about?

My friend, I really can't understand why we should talk about Christianity. I am not a Christian, as I have already said.
To point thee out something good? Neither thing can be called good or bad itself, good and bad is what is inside human. Love is good, compassion is good, understanding is good. Please don't think that I am going to give thee new commandments, new rules or something like that, I am just describing, here "good" means just "what brings happiness". Perhaps it is not so easy to understand, I wonder if it is possible to understand through words, but love is the ultimate happiness which can never be given through pleasures, through worldly fame, comfort etc. Love is freedom, the ability to feel the value of another person as HUMAN, not as just a means to get certain pleasure, certain result.
We are living in the world where we have exactly that: we don't see INFINITE value of people, we eat to get pleasure, looking for sexual partner to get pleasure, at work we don't look at problems of our workers, because all we need is a certain result, a certain pleasure. And our life has become so awful, because we struggle with others for pleasures, which is suffering, yet having got it, we inevitably meet that emptiness which comes after "satisfaction". So what is our "normal" life? Suffering and disappointment.
Love is the way out. When one is in love that crazy pursuit for pleasures comes to an end. One becomes able to feel the pure beauty of the world and human, which is the highest happiness.
 
Marat phil
 
Reply Mon 26 Apr, 2010 09:49 am
@awoelt,
5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt
not commit adultery: 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh
on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already
in his heart.

The Gospel According to (Saint) Matthew


---------- Post added 04-26-2010 at 10:51 AM ----------

Eudaimon;156728 wrote:
why we should talk about Christianity.


we should talk about Christianity
 
polpol
 
Reply Mon 26 Apr, 2010 12:43 pm
@awoelt,
When we look at the history of pornography, we see clearly that it's getting heavier, more and more unacceptable, more disgusting and immoral. Since pornography sells what goes beyond mainstream morals and practices, the more society is permissive and morally liberated, the more porno must come up with more "singularities" to sell, since the consumer becomes more demanding. Has anyone seen any pictures from the earliest era of pornography? They are funny and not at all immoral according to the standards of today's average person. Today what sells most is bestiality, live rape, murder and pedophily and that's not fun by any standard. But people prefer to shut their eyes on the realities of porn today and focus on the myth of the porn stars. Come on! Unless we think it's ok for a mom to suggest to her young child that he or she could become a porn star some day, then all the "porn is ok" arguments are plain bullshit (sorry if it's a bad word, but I wouldn't think so considering the topic of our discussion). I have no problem with erotic stuff since a society where there is no celebration of eros and human anatomy would indeed be hypocritical and unhealthy but porn?, no way!
 
polpol
 
Reply Mon 26 Apr, 2010 03:37 pm
@Marat phil,
Marat;156734 wrote:
5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt
not commit adultery: 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh
on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already
in his heart.

The Gospel According to (Saint) Matthew


---------- Post added 04-26-2010 at 10:51 AM ----------



we should talk about Christianity


Marat, This is not specifically Christian as all religions (please correct me if I'm wrong), condemn adultery morally as a cause of social disorder. Jesus also said it is better not to marry, so he nor Christianity is a good reference for this topic. The Ancient Testament says that for a man to live long, he must stay faithful to the woman of his youth. I like this formula better, its more romantic and it's jewish though Jesus was still a Jew at that time...so we could talk about Christianity but it doesn't really help.
 
Marat phil
 
Reply Mon 26 Apr, 2010 03:46 pm
@awoelt,
Many nations legalised pornography. Soft drugs. Unisex marriages. The following step is pedophilia legalisation. It will occur soon.
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Mon 26 Apr, 2010 04:42 pm
@Eudaimon,
Eudaimon;156728 wrote:
My friend, I really can't understand why we should talk about Christianity. I am not a Christian, as I have already said.
To point thee out something good? Neither thing can be called good or bad itself, good and bad is what is inside human. Love is good, compassion is good, understanding is good. Please don't think that I am going to give thee new commandments, new rules or something like that, I am just describing, here "good" means just "what brings happiness". Perhaps it is not so easy to understand, I wonder if it is possible to understand through words, but love is the ultimate happiness which can never be given through pleasures, through worldly fame, comfort etc. Love is freedom, the ability to feel the value of another person as HUMAN, not as just a means to get certain pleasure, certain result.
We are living in the world where we have exactly that: we don't see INFINITE value of people, we eat to get pleasure, looking for sexual partner to get pleasure, at work we don't look at problems of our workers, because all we need is a certain result, a certain pleasure. And our life has become so awful, because we struggle with others for pleasures, which is suffering, yet having got it, we inevitably meet that emptiness which comes after "satisfaction". So what is our "normal" life? Suffering and disappointment.
Love is the way out. When one is in love that crazy pursuit for pleasures comes to an end. One becomes able to feel the pure beauty of the world and human, which is the highest happiness.
Sounds more like "good" from a selfish perspective, dude please stop being medival with these "good" and "bad" terms. Use instead psycotic, skitzophrenic, unselfish ..etc, much better terms.
 
Eudaimon
 
Reply Tue 27 Apr, 2010 02:18 am
@HexHammer,
Marat;156734 wrote:
5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt
not commit adultery: 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh
on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already
in his heart.

The Gospel According to (Saint) Matthew

we should talk about Christianity

Why? The words of Christ or any man are true only when I feel that they are regardless of who is the person who said them. Therefore, I don't see any reason to speculate about the meaning of Christ's or Buddha's words, because that's useless. I am speaking on my behalf and really not caring what those "prophets" thought right.

HexHammer;156898 wrote:
Sounds more like "good" from a selfish perspective, dude please stop being medival with these "good" and "bad" terms. Use instead psycotic, skitzophrenic, unselfish ..etc, much better terms.

I really don't understand what thou art saying here...
 
wayne
 
Reply Tue 27 Apr, 2010 02:34 am
@Eudaimon,
Eudaimon;156728 wrote:
My friend, I really can't understand why we should talk about Christianity. I am not a Christian, as I have already said.
To point thee out something good? Neither thing can be called good or bad itself, good and bad is what is inside human. Love is good, compassion is good, understanding is good. Please don't think that I am going to give thee new commandments, new rules or something like that, I am just describing, here "good" means just "what brings happiness". Perhaps it is not so easy to understand, I wonder if it is possible to understand through words, but love is the ultimate happiness which can never be given through pleasures, through worldly fame, comfort etc. Love is freedom, the ability to feel the value of another person as HUMAN, not as just a means to get certain pleasure, certain result.
We are living in the world where we have exactly that: we don't see INFINITE value of people, we eat to get pleasure, looking for sexual partner to get pleasure, at work we don't look at problems of our workers, because all we need is a certain result, a certain pleasure. And our life has become so awful, because we struggle with others for pleasures, which is suffering, yet having got it, we inevitably meet that emptiness which comes after "satisfaction". So what is our "normal" life? Suffering and disappointment.
Love is the way out. When one is in love that crazy pursuit for pleasures comes to an end. One becomes able to feel the pure beauty of the world and human, which is the highest happiness.


Very wise words indeed. Some things never change, humans seek short term solutions to long term problems. Always has it been this way, no worse ,never better. Seeking happiness through the body.
Lasting happiness does not come through the body, but through our spirit by personal sacrifice and love.
Hard for humans to understand that.
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Tue 27 Apr, 2010 05:55 am
@Eudaimon,
Eudaimon;156728 wrote:
good and bad is what is inside human. Love is good, compassion is good, understanding is good. Please don't think that I am going to give thee new commandments, new rules or something like that, I am just describing, here "good" means just "what brings happiness". Perhaps it is not so easy to understand, I wonder if it is possible to understand through words, but love is the ultimate happiness which can never be given through pleasures, through worldly fame, comfort etc. Love is freedom, the ability to feel the value of another person as HUMAN, not as just a means to get certain pleasure, certain result.
Do you know what an erotoman is? Why does so many married people divorce? I see many lovers bicker, and sometimes it ends tragicly in murder.
I see teen mums, who gave their love so willingly, but end up being abandoned, left as lonely supporters of a child ..what what good is your narrow definition of love?

Compassion can often end in a disfavor, we try to help with good intend but end to just doing things worse. People voted for GW Bush, but he just screwed the world over, introducing torture which he has for endless generations tryed to purge.
People donate their belongies to 3rd world countries, but just end up undermine their industries and support the warfare, making more suffering.

Eudaimon;156728 wrote:
We are living in the world where we have exactly that: we don't see INFINITE value of people, we eat to get pleasure, looking for sexual partner to get pleasure, at work we don't look at problems of our workers, because all we need is a certain result, a certain pleasure. And our life has become so awful, because we struggle with others for pleasures, which is suffering, yet having got it, we inevitably meet that emptiness which comes after "satisfaction". So what is our "normal" life? Suffering and disappointment.
Love is the way out. When one is in love that crazy pursuit for pleasures comes to an end. One becomes able to feel the pure beauty of the world and human, which is the highest happiness.
Dude, once you get married, get kids and a job ..u'll look at life alot differently.

Seems you mostly have knowledge of life, through books.
 
Marat phil
 
Reply Tue 27 Apr, 2010 06:31 am
@awoelt,
In Ancient Rome pedophilia wasn't crime.
The Renaissance - is culture error.
 
Cortland
 
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2010 08:30 am
@awoelt,
One thing that I have noticed about porn lately is that you can find any kind of pornography that you want using the internet. For that reason I think that it is tough to argue that it degrades any one group of people. I know feminists think that porn is degrading to women, but what about homosexual male pornography? What about bondage when the man is the one tied up? What about all those disgusting (at least to me) videos where people are having intercourse with animals? All of these are just as common on the internet.
But honestly I don't think any of that matters, when you watch porn it is generally a pretty personal experience. Pleasuring yourself is arguably (notice I say arguably) the most personal experience a person can have. It is just you and the ultimate good feeling, who cares what you watch or think about to achieve that moment of personal satisfaction that no one else will ever see?
 
Eudaimon
 
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2010 10:50 am
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;157030 wrote:
Do you know what an erotoman is? Why does so many married people divorce? I see many lovers bicker, and sometimes it ends tragicly in murder.
I see teen mums, who gave their love so willingly, but end up being abandoned, left as lonely supporters of a child ..what what good is your narrow definition of love?

Allow me to recall a poem written by Soviet poet and regisseur E. Riazanov:

Love can forgive everything,
When it is Love.
It can wait for ever,
When it is Love.
Love cannot be sinful
When it is Love.
One can never forget it,
When it is Love.

Love can sacrifice life,
When it is Love;
It is salvation, grace,
When it is Love.
It is full of immeasurable kindness,
When it is Love,
It is as natural as thou,
When it is Love.

Excuse me for the absence of rhyme in my translation, hope the sense is understandable. People generally think they love, whereas in reality they still abide in the realm of desires. When one abides in love, it is absolutely impossible for him to have a row with the loved one, because he, as a bunch of desires, of struggle, comes to an end. Sexual desire comes to an end as well, because love has nothing to do with sensuality, with that bestial desire to have access to sexual organs of another.
So when one is in love, he can never complain on his life, whether the person who caused that feeling loves him or doesn't love, or even doesn't know about him. So thy examples are flawed, because they still imply some degree of selfishness. If someone feels bad because of being abandoned or whatever, this means that he still has desire, that he did not dissolve in love.

HexHammer;157030 wrote:
Compassion can often end in a disfavor, we try to help with good intend but end to just doing things worse. People voted for GW Bush, but he just screwed the world over, introducing torture which he has for endless generations tryed to purge.
People donate their belongies to 3rd world countries, but just end up undermine their industries and support the warfare, making more suffering.

True compassion is more like inner feeling, it doesn't mean that one must immediately dash to donate money. That's all is imaginary compassion. Compassion must not be "cultivated". Compassion may easily be replaced by "principles", by ideas, which is obviously what thou art speaking of. When compassion is really there it can never lead to bad result, i. e. I really don't care what fruit it will bear. I just perform that as natural as trees start blossoming in spring.
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2010 11:11 am
@Eudaimon,
Eudaimon;157579 wrote:
Allow me to recall a poem written by Soviet poet and regisseur E. Riazanov:

Love can forgive everything,
When it is Love.
It can wait for ever,
When it is Love.
Love cannot be sinful
When it is Love.
One can never forget it,
When it is Love.

Love can sacrifice life,
When it is Love;
It is salvation, grace,
When it is Love.
It is full of immeasurable kindness,
When it is Love,
It is as natural as thou,
When it is Love.

Excuse me for the absence of rhyme in my translation, hope the sense is understandable. People generally think they love, whereas in reality they still abide in the realm of desires. When one abides in love, it is absolutely impossible for him to have a row with the loved one, because he, as a bunch of desires, of struggle, comes to an end. Sexual desire comes to an end as well, because love has nothing to do with sensuality, with that bestial desire to have access to sexual organs of another.
So when one is in love, he can never complain on his life, whether the person who caused that feeling loves him or doesn't love, or even doesn't know about him. So thy examples are flawed, because they still imply some degree of selfishness. If someone feels bad because of being abandoned or whatever, this means that he still has desire, that he did not dissolve in love.
What you speak of, is very old fashion love, a naive and ignorent love, western love realize there are very little of any such thing, that's why the divorce rate sky rocket for enlighten people.


Eudaimon;157579 wrote:
True compassion is more like inner feeling, it doesn't mean that one must immediately dash to donate money. That's all is imaginary compassion. Compassion must not be "cultivated". Compassion may easily be replaced by "principles", by ideas, which is obviously what thou art speaking of. When compassion is really there it can never lead to bad result, i. e. I really don't care what fruit it will bear. I just perform that as natural as trees start blossoming in spring.
You speak of nothing, only empty rethoric reaches my ears, and my eyes desire any concrete examples.

Those concrete examples you have spend pages to provide, has been only spoken from an naive and ignorent standpoint.

Please with all your great knowledge, explain why the divorce rate are so high in the western world.
 
Marat phil
 
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2010 12:37 pm
@Cortland,
Cortland;157532 wrote:
But honestly I don't think any of that matters, when you watch porn it is generally a pretty personal experience. Pleasuring yourself is arguably (notice I say arguably) the most personal experience a person can have. It is just you and the ultimate good feeling, who cares what you watch or think about to achieve that moment of personal satisfaction that no one else will ever see?


personal experience? Yeah?

No! This is professional business of many peoples: You pay money (credit card or banners or SMS) - whores, souteneur, mafia makes video (your money). Temptation of "fast easy big money" for young girls (potential mothers & wifes). Many men remain lonely. Lonelyness - main reason of depression. Pornography is branch of prostitution business. Rich married bаstаrd fuсks 20 whores for time. Someone can't find wife to create family!
 
Eudaimon
 
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2010 11:55 pm
@Marat phil,
HexHammer;157580 wrote:
What you speak of, is very old fashion love, a naive and ignorent love, western love realize there are very little of any such thing, that's why the divorce rate sky rocket for enlighten people.

You speak of nothing, only empty rethoric reaches my ears, and my eyes desire any concrete examples.

Those concrete examples you have spend pages to provide, has been only spoken from an naive and ignorent standpoint.

Please with all your great knowledge, explain why the divorce rate are so high in the western world.

First of all, I don't think that marriage is an outcome of love. Why is marriage necessary? What is marriage at all? I really don't understand what connexion it has with the pure love I am speaking about.
But thy question may be slightly corrected when we formulate that as: "Why do people who said they were in love start bicker, offend one another and end up in total break-up of relationships?" In this case, I think both I and thou have already answered that question. It's just that people don't have that "naive" (as thou hast called that) love. What they mostly have is a certain kind preference, with the desire to get pleasure through another person, which contradicts to love. Is it not the answer?

Marat;157597 wrote:
Many men remain lonely. Lonelyness - main reason of depression. Pornography is branch of prostitution business. Rich married bаstаrd fuсks 20 whores for time. Someone can't find wife to create family!

Lonely in the sense that they don't have sex? Ah, what a grief!Smile Seems that Jesus whom thou wast quoting had seen the hideousness of ANY sexual relationships when said those words at mount sermon.
 
 

 
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