Morally Twisted Society

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GoshisDead
 
Reply Wed 6 Jan, 2010 01:19 pm
@xris,
xris;117616 wrote:

Not every child. We may influence them unintentionally but not by indoctrination. Sending a child to Sunday school was the way they indoctrinated when I was child. If we did not indoctrinate, we would have more free thinkers. Would you say the communists or the Nazis indoctrinated their youth?


Influence a child unintentionally? that would require you never, ever to teach them anything. Snake and/or Fish parents influence children unintentionally. They leave them before they even hatch or right after. Humanity is an indoctrination machine. Everytime you say do this/don't do that/this is good/this is bad/ reward good behavior/punish bad behavior it is indoctrination. A child who is not indoctrinated into some group, normally the group the parent identifies with would be like the wolf boy in france or Ginny the girl who was locked in a closet until she was 13. Both of which, although showing no signs of genetic disfunction or brain trauma were functionally retarded their whole lives. I mean really, does your bitterness blind you from the obvious? Is it only indoctrination when you don't like the result and teaching when you do?
 
xris
 
Reply Wed 6 Jan, 2010 01:27 pm
@GoshisDead,
GoshisDead;117822 wrote:
Influence a child unintentionally? that would require you never, ever to teach them anything. Snake and/or Fish parents influence children unintentionally. They leave them before they even hatch or right after. Humanity is an indoctrination machine. Everytime you say do this/don't do that/this is good/this is bad/ reward good behavior/punish bad behavior it is indoctrination. A child who is not indoctrinated into some group, normally the group the parent identifies with would be like the wolf boy in france or Ginny the girl who was locked in a closet until she was 13. Both of which, although showing no signs of genetic disfunction or brain trauma were functionally retarded their whole lives. I mean really, does your bitterness blind you from the obvious? Is it only indoctrination when you don't like the result and teaching when you do?
Another poster that makes an assumptions without justification, bitter, why should you class me as bitter, before i answer your question?
 
GoshisDead
 
Reply Wed 6 Jan, 2010 01:42 pm
@xris,
Okay for decorum's sake I will retract bitter and insert senationalist. An the reason is that almost every post I've ever read of yours is fashioned to draw the senational against things you don't agree with, whether it be the above.. this is child abuse, or in other threads like, that is slavery, I can stand X people they are modern day nazis, or I don't believe the outright stupidity of X.
 
josh0335
 
Reply Wed 6 Jan, 2010 01:43 pm
@xris,
I'm completely against the glorification of violence in popular media and films. But perhaps showing the harshness of death helps people understand the value of life. Showing sex doesn't have that same effect, does it? If anything, it devalues sex. Showing a real execution on tv is not the same as Matt Damon looking really cool whilst shooting someone in the head in a Bourne film.
 
Fido
 
Reply Wed 6 Jan, 2010 01:56 pm
@ArthBH,
Accuse the accuser... It never has worked, but it is always worth a try...
 
xris
 
Reply Wed 6 Jan, 2010 02:02 pm
@GoshisDead,
GoshisDead;117838 wrote:
Okay for decorum's sake I will retract bitter and insert senationalist. An the reason is that almost every post I've ever read of yours is fashioned to draw the senational against things you don't agree with, whether it be the above.. this is child abuse, or in other threads like, that is slavery, I can stand X people they are modern day nazis, or I don't believe the outright stupidity of X.
If you want to dispute any of my posts, do so, but this generalisation is propaganda. Point out these posts and lets see if your propaganda has any substance. In the mean time lets consider this thread or is it your intention to join the pack. Sensationalism , how are my post sensational with regard to this thread.

---------- Post added 01-06-2010 at 03:09 PM ----------

josh0335;117839 wrote:
I'm completely against the glorification of violence in popular media and films. But perhaps showing the harshness of death helps people understand the value of life. Showing sex doesn't have that same effect, does it? If anything, it devalues sex. Showing a real execution on tv is not the same as Matt Damon looking really cool whilst shooting someone in the head in a Bourne film.
Its the double standards, watching death to me is more repugnant than seeing a womens body. This does not conclude i want sex scenes on YouTube. How many openly admit watching poor souls having their throat cut but would deny ever watching porn. Turning my objective views of double standards into me being a raving sex fiend is why im fighting these bigoted opinions. Im not including you in this comment by the way.
 
GoshisDead
 
Reply Wed 6 Jan, 2010 02:19 pm
@xris,
MEh pointless and life goes on
 
josh0335
 
Reply Wed 6 Jan, 2010 02:46 pm
@xris,
xris;117855 wrote:

Its the double standards, watching death to me is more repugnant than seeing a womens body. This does not conclude i want sex scenes on YouTube. How many openly admit watching poor souls having their throat cut but would deny ever watching porn. Turning my objective views of double standards into me being a raving sex fiend is why im fighting these bigoted opinions. Im not including you in this comment by the way.


I agree, there are double standards. I'm suggesting there is a difference in what meanings we associate with seeing death and seeing sex. Seeing real death should bring many negative feelings and should reinforce the feeling that nobody should be needlessly killed. You never get this feeling when watching death in a film. But the feelings when seeing sex is different. Perhaps that's why death is more widely accepted. But anyway, I agree with what you've been saying.
 
William
 
Reply Wed 6 Jan, 2010 05:59 pm
@ArthBH,
josh0335;117875 wrote:
I agree, there are double standards.


You do? If you don't mind, let me offer why there are when it comes the men and women being different in regards to "sexual freedom" in this reality we find ourselves in. I am a father of two daughters and I sure as hell don't want them to take after me in the sexual inclination department. Hell no.

I understand the male sex drive and I am not even sure the female has one or at least one that can be said that is "natural or innate". We do. I think the male is active and the female is passive. Personally when the female is active in all regards is not innate and there is reasoning behind it. Likewise when the male is passive, the is reasoning behind that too.

They know how their femininity can attract the male, fair enough, and they know how to use it in that regard.........big time. That is the power of woman and most men are helpless to it. And woman knows it, ha! So yes there is a double standard there and needs to be there as it relates to what we call "sexual freedom" and how that can be misinterpreted.

Only the man pursues and it is up to the woman if she is going to be caught................or not! If you turn that around, which is what is being done, it's not even a race. Men will trip over themselves to get caught. When a woman pursues you can bet it is for all the wrong reasons. Man is guilty of that too but at least in us, it is normal. Over..............in that regard could be considered abnormal.

Much can be offered here as to why the double standard is as it is and it it has everything to do with what is politically deemed equal and political correctness is what is used to enforce it's erroneous definitions in an effort to defend the axiom that is erroneously defined as equality between the man and the woman and it is clear they are most assuredly................different and not the same and to carte blanche say they are equal in those also is absolutely absurd.

As far as the rest of your post, I have commented on that the past and don't wish to reiterate those offerings here.

William
 
Fido
 
Reply Wed 6 Jan, 2010 06:07 pm
@ArthBH,
A lot of women think they know how to use their femininity, and get used by it... That may be the genetic logic of the thing for all I know; that unless we bond, which puts all we are at risk, we cannot breed, but love messes up every sense of the reasonable...If we could consided love rationally not one of us would love...
 
josh0335
 
Reply Wed 6 Jan, 2010 07:05 pm
@William,
William;117945 wrote:
You do? If you don't mind, let me offer why there are when it comes the men and women being different in regards to "sexual freedom" in this reality we find ourselves in. I am a father of two daughters and I sure as hell don't want them to take after me in the sexual inclination department. Hell no.

I understand the male sex drive and I am not even sure the female has one or at least one that can be said that is "natural or innate". We do. I think the male is active and the female is passive. Personally when the female is active in all regards is not innate and there is reasoning behind it. Likewise when the male is passive, the is reasoning behind that too.

They know how their femininity can attract the male, fair enough, and they know how to use it in that regard.........big time. That is the power of woman and most men are helpless to it. And woman knows it, ha! So yes there is a double standard there and needs to be there as it relates to what we call "sexual freedom" and how that can be misinterpreted.

Only the man pursues and it is up to the woman if she is going to be caught................or not! If you turn that around, which is what is being done, it's not even a race. Men will trip over themselves to get caught. When a woman pursues you can bet it is for all the wrong reasons. Man is guilty of that too but at least in us, it is normal. Over..............in that regard could be considered abnormal.

Much can be offered here as to why the double standard is as it is and it it has everything to do with what is politically deemed equal and political correctness is what is used to enforce it's erroneous definitions in an effort to defend the axiom that is erroneously defined as equality between the man and the woman and it is clear they are most assuredly................different and not the same and to carte blanche say they are equal in those also is absolutely absurd.

As far as the rest of your post, I have commented on that the past and don't wish to reiterate those offerings here.

William



What you've said sums up one of the main failures of Western life, in my opinion. That of women being portrayed as sex objects in popular culture. It is ultimately male driven, even if many women choose to live up to the image. There is no supply where there is no demand.
 
odenskrigare
 
Reply Wed 6 Jan, 2010 08:56 pm
@ArthBH,
I'm not opposed to either graphic displays of sex or violence on television

most people are too dumb to sympathize with

like I was looking at images of the My Lai massacre and all I could think of was "dead homophobes"

down with the FCC and all its prudery

---------- Post added 01-06-2010 at 09:59 PM ----------

josh0335;117957 wrote:
What you've said sums up one of the main failures of Western life, in my opinion. That of women being portrayed as sex objects in popular culture.


why qualify this with "Western"

well sure I guess the first thing that comes to mind when I think of the Third World is women not being treated like chattel

yeah that makes sense
 
starfighter
 
Reply Wed 6 Jan, 2010 10:28 pm
@odenskrigare,
josh0335;117839 wrote:
I'm completely against the glorification of violence in popular media and films. But perhaps showing the harshness of death helps people understand the value of life. Showing sex doesn't have that same effect, does it? If anything, it devalues sex. Showing a real execution on tv is not the same as Matt Damon looking really cool whilst shooting someone in the head in a Bourne film.


Bully!

xris;117855 wrote:
Its the double standards, watching death to me is more repugnant than seeing a womens body. This does not conclude i want sex scenes on YouTube. How many openly admit watching poor souls having their throat cut but would deny ever watching porn. Turning my objective views of double standards into me being a raving sex fiend is why im fighting these bigoted opinions. Im not including you in this comment by the way.


I agree, seeing death is much more repugnant. Have you witnessed a great act of violence? The ones I have have shaped me into the man I am. Have made me more resolute in protecting my ideals. The nude human form has not. Why would you call me a bigot? I am far from intolerant of those who differ from me. I mean we are debating this, not fist fighting over it.

josh0335;117875 wrote:
I agree, there are double standards. I'm suggesting there is a difference in what meanings we associate with seeing death and seeing sex. Seeing real death should bring many negative feelings and should reinforce the feeling that nobody should be needlessly killed. You never get this feeling when watching death in a film. But the feelings when seeing sex is different. Perhaps that's why death is more widely accepted. But anyway, I agree with what you've been saying.


Bully again!

josh0335;117957 wrote:
What you've said sums up one of the main failures of Western life, in my opinion. That of women being portrayed as sex objects in popular culture. It is ultimately male driven, even if many women choose to live up to the image. There is no supply where there is no demand.


Or where there is no supply the value of things increase. I hate these analogies cause it makes the female form sound like currency. I just wish young women would value themselves more, they would be valued more. I feel awful putting that way. PLEASE! Someone more articulate express this sentiment a little better.
 
odenskrigare
 
Reply Wed 6 Jan, 2010 11:12 pm
@ArthBH,
my favorite kind of media violence is watching the television feed from a Spectre or Predator
 
josh0335
 
Reply Thu 7 Jan, 2010 08:17 am
@odenskrigare,
odenskrigare;117987 wrote:

why qualify this with "Western"


From what I've observed, women are not portrayed in a similar way in popular culture in the sub-continent, or generally in the Middle East or in many countries of Africa. That's not to say women in those parts of the world are treated perfectly, merely this particular problem is of Western culture.
 
Fido
 
Reply Thu 7 Jan, 2010 08:43 am
@ArthBH,
The position of women in the honor economy is that of a slave... I don't want women to have to step back socially to have some protection from sexual injustice...Everyone should be free to stop others from their injury...A woman forced to perform any sexual act for money demeans the sexuality of all women...It is an injustice, and that sort of thing ought to be attacked on every level...It should not be made into an article of commerce, and though it has always been so, in a democracy it should never become, from any woman's point of view, A Necessity...
 
odenskrigare
 
Reply Thu 7 Jan, 2010 09:06 am
@josh0335,
josh0335;118107 wrote:
From what I've observed, women are not portrayed in a similar way in popular culture in the sub-continent, or generally in the Middle East or in many countries of Africa. That's not to say women in those parts of the world are treated perfectly, merely this particular problem is of Western culture.


I would argue that you are somewhat unfamiliar with these regions

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_5aLpacNkA

in truth, I would consider much of sub-Saharan Africa to be somehow Western in outlook, in so far of (ideally) having representative gov't, free speech, social egalitarianism, trial by jury, and so on

but regardless, the Muslim sphere and East Asia, e.g., have some of the absolute worst issues with women's rights whether de jure or de facto

and of course they don't have openly sexual displays in the media in the Middle East, they have women wearing tents and men who act all weird and fidgety

the bottom line is this: these hot sexy women that we see slathered all over TV and movies have the right to be in them. they chose to do so and no one is forcing them into it. if they feel pressure then that's another issue but it isn't quite coercion and is a situation by no means limited to the West. one of the most effective ways to deal with this kind of pressure, incidentally, is to grow a damn spine and stand up for your rights, because you can't just expect someone to save you at every turn
 
josh0335
 
Reply Thu 7 Jan, 2010 09:37 am
@odenskrigare,
odenskrigare;118122 wrote:
I would argue that you are somewhat unfamiliar with these regions


I would argue that I am somewhat familiar with these regions.

Quote:
in truth, I would consider much of sub-Saharan Africa to be somehow Western in outlook, in so far of (ideally) having representative gov't, free speech, social egalitarianism, trial by jury, and so on


And portrayal of women in popular culture? You're implying that the above conditions necessarily lead to women being portrayed in the same way that they are portrayed in the West.

Quote:
the bottom line is this: these hot sexy women that we see slathered all over TV and movies have the right to be in them. they chose to do so and no one is forcing them into it. if they feel pressure then that's another issue but it isn't quite coercion and is a situation by no means limited to the West.


Perhaps it's not limited to the West but it is very prevalent and arguably the West is the trend-setter for a lot of popular culture around the world. If women are pressured to dress or behave in a sexual way because of pressure, and would feel less confident and unhappy if they didn't, this is no different to coercion.
 
odenskrigare
 
Reply Thu 7 Jan, 2010 11:25 am
@josh0335,
josh0335;118131 wrote:
I would argue that I am somewhat familiar with these regions.


well you didn't know about stuff like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pd6COxDKkGU

so forgive me

josh0335;118131 wrote:
And portrayal of women in popular culture? You're implying that the above conditions necessarily lead to women being portrayed in the same way that they are portrayed in the West.


they don't

in fact

http://www.dharssi.org.uk/travel/india/khajuraho/erotic_sculpture_big.jpg

and

http://www.rotten.com/library/sex/rape/tentacle-rape/dream_of_the_fishermans_wife_hokusai.jpg

witness the birth of hentai

josh0335;118131 wrote:
Perhaps it's not limited to the West but it is very prevalent and arguably the West is the trend-setter for a lot of popular culture around the world. If women are pressured to dress or behave in a sexual way because of pressure, and would feel less confident and unhappy if they didn't, this is no different to coercion.


in this case they bring it on themselves for being cowed

btw the only harm comes from the fact that caved in to peer pressure: showing flesh isn't inherently harmful and I am dead serious when I say that it should be legal for people to be stark naked in public
 
xris
 
Reply Thu 7 Jan, 2010 11:34 am
@odenskrigare,
Thanks Oden, I was spiritual moved and not one evil thought past my minddddddd.Ohhh I love women, they are wonderful.
 
 

 
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