Morally Twisted Society

@ArthBH,

ArthBH;116417 wrote:

Before you read the thread, I would like you to view this short video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjd-Kvq5UmU

I find it extremely disturbing. The fact he relishes the thought of people who do not practice his religion to the word burning in Hell is shocking. It is morally disgusting. And yet he seems to think he is righteous. This the first example of why I think human society is morally twisted.

Here is the second:
When I was about ten years old, I was watching kids TV and turned over to channel 5 where the news was on. On which they showed the execution of hundreds of prisoners in China. I found it extremely disturbing. This is what annoys me, they will show footage of death any time of the day, and yet they will not allow swearing or nudity until after nine o'clock. As children we are much more likely to see people dying in cowboy films before we see nudity or sex, and doesn't that seem twisted to you? We see our own nudity everyday, our natural selves, sex is the bringer of life, it's fun, it's beautiful, and swearing is just words, words that if we use enough will eventually become meaningless, and so fall out of use. Death on the other hand is the ultimate darkness, the ultimate reason for depression, the point of fear, the greatest bane of life.

What are your thoughts on this?

Oh yeah, I completely agree. This little kid is cracking me up. He's so mislead that he's calling Charles Darwin an idiot and a crack-pot. He's listened to his father ramble on so much, that I don't think he can think of things all by himself.

And yes, the fact that nudity is considered more of an adult concept than death is just wrong as well. Nudity is a great thing, it's how we were born. It's how we reproduce. Babies see their mother's **** everyday. Unfortunately, they can't miss a good death any time they turn on the TV.

@ArthBH,

They start on them when they are very young, the drip drip effect of fervent indoctrination is tantamount to child abuse.

Society has been sculptured to fit the ideology of the dogmatic faithful where its better to watch violent death than be debauched by scenes of humans making love.

@ArthBH,

ArthBH;116427 wrote:

Before you read the thread, I would like you to view this short video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjd-Kvq5UmU

I find it extremely disturbing. The fact he relishes the thought of people who do not practice his religion to the word burning in Hell is shocking. It is morally disgusting. And yet he seems to think he is righteous. This the first example of why I think human society is morally twisted.

Here is the second:
When I was about ten years old, I was watching kids TV and turned over to channel 5 where the news was on. On which they showed the execution of hundreds of prisoners in China. I found it extremely disturbing. This is what annoys me, they will show footage of death any time of the day, and yet they will not allow swearing or nudity until after nine o'clock. As children we are much more likely to see people dying in cowboy films before we see nudity or sex, and doesn't that seem twisted to you? We see our own nudity everyday, our natural selves, sex is the bringer of life, it's fun, it's beautiful, and swearing is just words, words that if we use enough will eventually become meaningless, and so fall out of use. Death on the other hand is the ultimate darkness, the ultimate reason for depression, the point of fear, the greatest bane of life.

What are your thoughts on this?

Thank God you got to see the execution...I did not, and I cannot say those people ever existed, and that is a fact of morality, to admit others exist as human beings...

Civility is a form...If you think you can be welcome in society while giving offense to all then tell me what forms you belong in where you can get away with abusing people's senses of propriety???

@ArthBH,

Even though there are many such children echoing the anti-scientism and closed-mindedness of some religious sects (and not just religious sects, for that matter) repeating what they have heard over and over again---almost by rote---when they mature and if they receive an education their opinions change.

@xris,

xris;116454 wrote:

They start on them when they are very young, the drip drip effect of fervent indoctrination is tantamount to child abuse.

Society has been sculptured to fit the ideology of the dogmatic faithful where its better to watch violent death than be debauched by scenes of humans making love.

They are oppsite messages you do know???We are inclined to show our enemeis in a bad light, and their solution to criminality is meant to make us feel happy with our own which is a failure... And illicite sexuality is only that because it is associate with disease, and the spread of disease; and many would look on such immorality as encouraging people to carless of their oaths...One person selling cheap what another holds dear devalues the whole economy, and there is an economy of love, and of hate for that matter..

---------- Post added 01-02-2010 at 05:57 PM ----------

jgweed;116473 wrote:

Even though there are many such children echoing the anti-scientism and closed-mindedness of some religious sects (and not just religious sects, for that matter) repeating what they have heard over and over again---almost by rote---when they mature and if they receive an education their opinions change.

Yes; people like to swap one form for another at the drop of a hat...Look at Paul going from persecutor to proselyte over night...Just as Pavlove showed, the dog determined in his behavior when retrained was determined still in his new behavior...What is the difference to you between institutional religion and institutional education??? They are both forms, as institutions are...Try to get anyone to abandon all form if you crave failure...Formal people are formal people are formal people...

@Fido,

Moral values are not denied by seeing a loving act, its more destructive to our societies to see constant images of violence than non pornographic images of love. Im not condoning porn but it has less danger than violence. If violence was condemning with the same vigour I would possibly agree with you.

@xris,

xris;116596 wrote:

Moral values are not denied by seeing a loving act, its more destructive to our societies to see constant images of violence than non pornographic images of love. Im not condoning porn but it has less danger than violence. If violence was condemning with the same vigour I would possibly agree with you.

One is not better than the other... Sex without love is a form of violence... It does not matter that those who participate seem willing... We can blame the victims of violence as well... In fact, if we do not know the facts of the situation we should not pretend we know, which is a will full form of ignorance...You should understand that those engaged in the act on media are not the only victims...

When all a person has to give to another is their intimacy as a bond for life, every action by others (porn)- that tends to devalue the gift of intimacy robs those people and their intimacy of its value without their being able to do anything about it...In fact, the result of violence is the same as porn, of being able to see human beings, women, and men as objects which can be made to perform tricks for money... Porn is driven by human misery, and it adds to human misery, and its opposite is not to be desired either... One should expect the young to be immoral; and it is pointlless to do more than correct them and offer a moral example...But the commerce in Sex is violence in every sense of the word, and it is theft...

If the situation were one, where a person surrended themselves into slavery because their need for food and employment became desparate, then the whole of the working class would rebel... One person, having less of needs or other needs can undercut another in wages, and this is a possitive injury to others... Minimum standards of behavior are in order for violence, and sex...But do try to understand: When economic injustice is allowed to exist, inevitably, sexual injustice follows... Porn is one form of sexual injustice..

@Fido,

Fido did you actually read my post? Your attention to porn is noted but what would you prefer a picture of two making love or the brutal death of a human? Not porn. There is a sculpture called the kiss that depicts two humans in a tender embrace, do you think that perverts those who observe it. For the life of me I cant see how the death of a human is less offensive to watch than the sex act.

---------- Post added 01-03-2010 at 10:37 AM ----------

jgweed;116473 wrote:

Even though there are many such children echoing the anti-scientism and closed-mindedness of some religious sects (and not just religious sects, for that matter) repeating what they have heard over and over again---almost by rote---when they mature and if they receive an education their opinions change.

I beg to differ those who are indoctrinated into faith have very little self will to oppose their parents faiths. RC breed roman catholics , muslims muslims, not many break the chain of faith. The fundamentalists among us are more inclined to produce more of their kind.

@ArthBH,

Xris...Each are forms of violence... Are you asking me to say one form of violence is acceptable and another is not??? No... They are the same thing with a slightly different form... If it were not possible, or acceptible to see others as objects upon which we can demonstrate our will, neither form of violence would be possible....

The facts are, which I will stand by, is that economic injustice always leads to sexual injustice, and if it were not found necessary to apply some minimum standards to it, it would extend even to children... Look at how closely sexual immorality followed slavery... Humanity was cheap..Life was cheap, and sexuality was cheap... The daughters of the poor in the Roman Empire were easily made prostitutes, and their sons had more value as eunichs then as men... What change was made by Christianity since it did nothing to correct injustice???Frankish Europe, Christian, and technically always in conflict with Muslim Spain made an industry of castrating poor German boys to serve the Harems of Spain... Was it not sexual injustice???Was it not violence??? Does the fact that it all came out of unjustice, that one person refused to give to another, that was blessed by the religion which was the highest moral force make it one bit better??? Injustice is legal... All manor of injustice, even illegal injustice will follow....

You know that sculpture would be considered porn even today; and I like Rodin, and have read of him and of his work...I have seen one of the originals of the Thinker, which may be no more than fourteen inches tall, and the Burghers... I have seen a lot of porn in art museums, which only points out the fact that the bourgeoise who were responsible for the great economic changes from the English revolution to the present day were no more moral than the nobility of France...They democratized immorality, but the freedom we celebrate is the freedom to see our daughters turned to demivirges...Sluts by another name...

@Fido,

Fido;116632 wrote:

Xris...Each are forms of violence... Are you asking me to say one form of violence is acceptable and another is not??? No... They are the same thing with a slightly different form... If it were not possible, or acceptible to see others as objects upon which we can demonstrate our will, neither form of violence would be possible....

The facts are, which I will stand by, is that economic injustice always leads to sexual injustice, and if it were not found necessary to apply some minimum standards to it, it would extend even to children... Look at how closely sexual immorality followed slavery... Humanity was cheap..Life was cheap, and sexuality was cheap... The daughters of the poor in the Roman Empire were easily made prostitutes, and their sons had more value as eunichs then as men... What change was made by Christianity since it did nothing to correct injustice???Frankish Europe, Christian, and technically always in conflict with Muslim Spain made an industry of castrating poor German boys to serve the Harems of Spain... Was it not sexual injustice???Was it not violence??? Does the fact that it all came out of unjustice, that one person refused to give to another, that was blessed by the religion which was the highest moral force make it one bit better??? Injustice is legal... All manor of injustice, even illegal injustice will follow....

You know that sculpture would be considered porn even today; and I like Rodin, and have read of him and of his work...I have seen one of the originals of the Thinker, which may be no more than fourteen inches tall, and the Burghers... I have seen a lot of porn in art museums, which only points out the fact that the bourgeoise who were responsible for the great economic changes from the English revolution to the present day were no more moral than the nobility of France...They democratized immorality, but the freedom we celebrate is the freedom to see our daughters turned to demivirges...Sluts by another name...

You have made your views very clear, I do not see porn when you might. You make much of this subject but then dont mention the violence we see constantly. Your bias is towards condemning the view of sex in society,with little concern for the violence. If we saw as much sex as we do violence , the excessive violence, that has become a norm in comparison to sex, we would have Roman orgies displayed daily. Its not that porn is acceptable, its the acceptance of violence as opposed to sex scenes that I find nonsense.

@xris,

xris;116639 wrote:

You have made your views very clear, I do not see porn when you might. You make much of this subject but then dont mention the violence we see constantly. Your bias is towards condemning the view of sex in society,with little concern for the violence. If we saw as much sex as we do violence , the excessive violence, that has become a norm in comparison to sex, we would have Roman orgies displayed daily. Its not that porn is acceptable, its the acceptance of violence as opposed to sex scenes that I find nonsense.

Violence is never shown that it is not justified... Who do you think violence is being justified against???Most of our violence that is not news is police comedies, and there, great pains are taken to show the violence of the crriminal to justify his violent end...Well; just ask for your rights some day, and see how fast you join the ranks of the criminal... Any one who challenges the established order is a criminal... The rich are only inclined to look for sex as a commodity because they look at all things, and every need as a commodity...It does not cheapen most things to be had as a commodity... Once fresh air and water was free, and even the price of sunshine could be afforded before sunscreen..They take what everyone needs for free, and turns itt into their own personal toilet so they can sell us what is left at a premium....If something is necessary, but plentiful it will be bought up cheaply to control its price...Labor is different because the more you buy the less you need, so the price goes down if the needs of life go down...So a job becomes a means of seeing who will survive from the perspective of the owners... Well; it is the same thing with sexual exploitation...Women denied real employment lined up for jobs as prostitutes...It is an exchange of forms of labor; but not of condition...They are still slaves...

Try to understand this...There are a number of ways we can look at both sex and violence and comparre them...Each may be seen as an inevitable result of injustice...Each may be seen as a form of communication...And each may be seen as forms of relationship; but what is the form of sex as compaared to violence??? In both there are ERs, and Ez, there is often an element of commerce at stake... Look at Nietzsche for an example...He made much of having gone to a whore house and been infected twice, he said, and he acted as though he knew something of Women, as a concept, and talked of dancing girls in gauze, or some such line... What was the nature of his relationship to women...Of his sexual relationships, they were financial, and in that world there are do'ers and do'ez...What he knew of women he learned from mothers and sisters platonic friends and whores...He had not natural relationship one, which fit into his whole picture of reality -which only justified injustice with a fanatical vigor...The whole world could be divided after his fashion, between those who give what the others must take... This is our most common form of relationship, and until we can change this form all forms will be in doubt...People need equity in their relationships...People need justice...

@Fido,

Fido;116661 wrote:

Violence is never shown that it is not justified... Who do you think it is being justified against???Most of our violence that is not news is police comedies, and there, great pains are taken to show the violence of the crriminal to justify his violent end...Well; just ask for your rights some day and see how fast you join the ranks of the criminal... Any one who challenges the established order is a criminal... The rich are inclined to look for sex as a commodity because they look at all things, and every need as a commodity...It does not cheapen most things to be had as a commodity... Once fresh air and water was free, and even the price of sunshine could be afforded before sunscreen...If something is necessary, but plentiful it will be bought up cheaply to control its price...Labor is different because the more you buy the less you need, so a job becomes a means of seeing who will survive from the perspective of the owners... Well; it is the same thing with sexual exploitation...Women denied real employment lined up for jobs as prostitutes...It is an exchange of forms of labor; but not of condition...They are still slaves...

You just dont get it , do you? Your narrow view of the extremes of sexual exploitation appear to give you the right to deny any sexual scenes. So when youtube allow executions to be viewed but not a womens body you find that acceptable?

@xris,

xris;116664 wrote:

You just dont get it , do you? Your narrow view of the extremes of sexual exploitation appear to give you the right to deny any sexual scenes. So when youtube allow executions to be viewed but not a womens body you find that acceptable?

We should not allow the exploitation of women, because the result is to justify all injustice toward women...

Now; people should be forced to see violence if it is thought to be the result of injustice... Lots of pornographers and their legions should be forced to defend the whole process before a jury...Did anyone participate out of duress...Were drugs and drugging or drug addiction any part of the process... Were any safe guards put in place to prevent children being subjected to it...The thing is that it is vice, and not virtue and everyone knows it...Everyone knows it is dangerous because of the possibility of disease, and psychologically dangerous because it is intimacy is an emotional minefield...

In your example; no one should be alllowed to become numb to violence because it is so common...Yet acts of injustice and their inevitable results should be exposed... Socrates was thought to say that there would be justice in Athens when those not injured by injustice are as indignant as those who are... Some times those who suffer injustice are dead, or numb to it, and for that reason more able to pass it on...Every injustice is a crime against society, and ultimtely, against humanty...Yet, all we need to do is not support it, and discourage it...Justice is between two people, sometimes between two who never even meet... That is true of all relationships; but we cannot be a witness to injustice without becoming a party to it... We make the cause of the injured our own, and try to settle the issue to satisfaction, or we enjoy and encourage the destruction of human relationships...Sex without love is not different from any other sort of violence...The injury is ours...

@Fido,

Fido;116674 wrote:

We should not allow the exploitation of women, because the result is to justify all injustice toward women...

Now; people should be forced to see violence if it is thought to be the result of injustice... Lots of pornographers and their legions should be forced to defend the whole process before a jury...Did anyone participate out of duress...Were drugs and drugging or drug addiction any part of the process... Were any safe guards put in place to prevent children being subjected to it...The thing is that it is vice, and not virtue and everyone knows it...Everyone knows it is dangerous because of the possibility of disease, and psychologically dangerous because it is intimacy is an emotional minefield...

In your example; no one should be alllowed to become numb to violence because it is so common...Yet acts of injustice and their inevitable results should be exposed... Socrates was thought to say that there would be justice in Athens when those not injured by injustice are as indignant as those who are... Some times those who suffer injustice are dead, or numb to it, and for that reason more able to pass it on...Every injustice is a crime against society, and ultimtely, against humanty...Yet, all we need to do is not support it, and discourage it...Justice is between two people, sometimes between two who never even meet... That is true of all relationships; but we cannot be a witness to injustice without becoming a party to it... We make the cause of the injured our own, and try to settle the issue to satisfaction, or we enjoy and encourage the destruction of human relationships...Sex without love is not different from any other sort of violence...The injury is ours...

You have no logical ethical motives for your views. You attempt at describing the scenarios for you to oppose. There are more scenarios that can give the view that violence is just as obscene as any viewed sexual act. With your view, rape could be reasoned to be shown but not a loving scene between two consenting adults.

@ArthBH,

What ever gave you the idea that morals are logical...They are anything but...

If you show me two consenting adults, acting not under some compulsion, or worse, out of some perversion, who actually want to be seen like two monkeys in a zoo bumpin the uglies, and I still would not support it because it cheapens that act for those who do not want to see humans acting as monkeys, or to see themselves in that fashion...Love does not need an audience, and lust always craves one...

@Fido,

Fido;116798 wrote:

What ever gave you the idea that morals are logical...They are anything but...

If you show me two consenting adults, acting not under some compulsion, or worse, out of some perversion, who actually want to be seen like two monkeys in a zoo bumpin the uglies, and I still would not support it because it cheapens that act for those who do not want to see humans acting as monkeys, or to see themselves in that fashion...Love does not need an audience, and lust always craves one...

You just dont get it do you? the comparisons are not what I have stated. Answer my question about youtube, please.

@xris,

xris;116853 wrote:

You just dont get it do you? the comparisons are not what I have stated. Answer my question about youtube, please.

Making available to some people any example of human suffering or death is only feeding the most prurient qualities of the people... Youth, in particular, is a time frought with dreams, fears, frustrations, expectations and failures...Such people do not need violence justified, nor sexuality, since they are part and parcel of the same anxiety about the future...I have no cure for those people except growth and time... So; some people should not be allowed access to scenes of violence which they will take pleasure in; and others who would as soon deny that violence and injustice are occuring should be subjected to such scenes... No injustice would be possible were it not for the willing blindness of otherwise moral people...

Yes; to the sensitive, and the sympathetic, such scenes cannot be viewed without pain... Well; youth seeks out such scenes to become numb to their own pain, so they can become calloused to their own mortality, and to their own undeniable place in this country and world as victims... I want people outraged, and it is not a feeling people seek out willingly...I don't either; but knowing injustice is occuring whether I witness it or not, the sense of outrage is an undercurrent in my life...

@ArthBH,

ArthBH;116427 wrote:

Before you read the thread, I would like you to view this short video:

I was not able to watch the video. Something about a violation? But I can imagine what it did say by the conversation that is going on among those who "are" commenting. For the most part I agree with what John has to say. (Jgweed). As far a the others, not!

Most of you are parroting what Larry Flynt offered in his desired to make pornography legal. Issuing violence was far worse than what nudity, profanity and lust did. What a crock! Two wrongs guys don't make a right. Have any of you ever heard that before? Damn!

You find more comfort being what can be considered by most as immoral and will not hear any notion of what morality could mean or represents.

What you are offering is not a sign of any definition that can be applied to maturity, but that of contaminated children who know no better nor do they want to be better. There is much that can be offered as to why that is but to offer it to those so afflicted is a chore. So I will not attempt to do so now.

ArthBH;116427 wrote:

I find it extremely disturbing. The fact he relishes the thought of people who do not practice his religion to the word burning in Hell is shocking. It is morally disgusting. And yet he seems to think he is righteous. This the first example of why I think human society is morally twisted.

So you are not a part of that society? If you are not then why complain? Why not effort to fix it? If you can see something society doesn't, wouldn't it behoove you to do something about it rather than try to rationalize it, or are you more comfortable where you are in you profane, lusty, pornographic world? Huh?

If you are, then you, my friend, are just a wrong as the one you are so disgusted with in demanding a reason for nudity, profanity and pornography. How so very sad.

ArthBH;116427 wrote:

Here is the second:
When I was about ten years old, I was watching kids TV and turned over to channel 5 where the news was on. On which they showed the execution of hundreds of prisoners in China. I found it extremely disturbing.

Yeah, television; ain't it a hoot! Sorta distracted you, didn't it. Of course you didn't say what the children's channel was offering? Obviously what it was offering wasn't interesting you or you were not paying attention for a variety of reasons for if you were, you would not have changed the channel, would you? I don't know what your environment is telling you so common sense tells me this is what was happening.

When considering all that television is offering today, from my experience, especially to children, please do all you can to keep them
away from it and occupy all the time you have to that child. It was almost that way once and then television came along and it has never been that way since. That is so very, very, very sad!!!!

ArthBH;116427 wrote:

This is what annoys me, they will show footage of death any time of the day,. and yet they will not allow swearing or nudity until after nine o'clock.

.

First of all your use of they is highly ambiguous as you effort to explain your stance. Now don't you think it would be prudent to know exactly who "they" are and why "they" are doing that? As far as the nudity and profanity, it seems you find an enjoyment in that and all I can ask you is...............why?

If you think that is not being done at all hours of the day and night, you are simply not paying attention to what is happening. Hell, man, sex sells! Didn't you know that. What more basal instinct can another use to get our attention, the male species, huh? And you bit and are biting.

ArthBH;116427 wrote:

As children we are much more likely to see people dying in cowboy films before we see nudity or sex, and doesn't that seem twisted to you?

.

It would if you wanted it to. Your analogy is weak to say the least. You want it to make sense. That is what Flynt did; using war as a greater obscenity. Crap! The gun in those cowboy movies were a metaphor for justice and could be misconstrued for other just as you are doing to satisfy what you fine more comfort with. The old western was just a depiction of good vs. evil; sex is nothing but self gratification. If one was in interested in good vs evil it would be easy to justify why they are into self gratification more. What you might say a "NO BRAINER".

ArthBH;116427 wrote:

We see our own nudity everyday, our natural selves,

True! Your point?

ArthBH;116427 wrote:

sex is the bringer of life,

No, any two creatures can have sex. There are many who are "having sex" and the sex they are having is incapable of bringing life. Please tell me how you rationalize that if you would?

ArthBH;116427 wrote:

it's fun, it's beautiful,

I don't know about fun and all that so called "fun" represents, but it is beautiful when it is between a man and woman who truly understand what the act is all about. We don't understand all that, that is; as a matter of a fact we are going in the opposite direction.

ArthBH;116427 wrote:

and swearing is just words, words that if we use enough will eventually become meaningless, and so fall out of use.

Nice shot, no cigar! Profanity is just an excuse when one is too damn lazy to effort to find more appropriate language. To use profanity is anger is one thing to use it gratuitously it utter stupidity.

ArthBH;116427 wrote:

Death on the other hand is the ultimate darkness, the ultimate reason for depression, the point of fear, the greatest bane of life.

If you think that is what it is, then that is what it will be. How's than!

ArthBH;116427 wrote:

What are your thoughts on this?

Thank you. You got 'em!

William

@Fido,

Fido;116860 wrote:

Making available to some people any example of human suffering or death is only feeding the most prurient qualities of the people... Youth, in particular, is a time frought with dreams, fears, frustrations, expectations and failures...Such people do not need violence justified, nor sexuality, since they are part and parcel of the same anxiety about the future...I have no cure for those people except growth and time... So; some people should not be allowed access to scenes of violence which they will take pleasure in; and others who would as soon deny that violence and injustice are occuring should be subjected to such scenes... No injustice would be possible were it not for the willing blindness of otherwise moral people...

Yes; to the sensitive, and the sympathetic, such scenes cannot be viewed without pain... Well; youth seeks out such scenes to become numb to their own pain, so they can become calloused to their own mortality, and to their own undeniable place in this country and world as victims... I want people outraged, and it is not a feeling people seek out willingly...I don't either; but knowing injustice is occuring whether I witness it or not, the sense of outrage is an undercurrent in my life...

You appear to be determined not to answer my question, if thats the case just leave it. Im not going to constantly spend my time listening to rhetoric without you entering into a debate.Thanks xris

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