@GoshisDead,
GoshisDead;172536 wrote:I was reading in Bergson's the Creative Mind last night the chapter titled INtroduction to metaphysics. He noted that metaphysics is the (paraphrasing because I'm at work) the non-empirical science. By this he means that it is singularly subjective. It is the study of the intuitive. I know that there are materialist folks here that will automatically scoff at the non-empirical study of anything, but I propose 9as in I have the opinion that) that the soul as presupposed by the OP is just such a thing, an intuitive knowledge of self.
Whether one defines it as consciousness, spirit, soul, mind whatever, it the recognition of said in oneself. It is a simple act that encompasses a plethora of information such as duration, past, experience, speculation, being, fear, hope, doubt. That if we were to experience our duration, our past could be analyzed contains discrete instances. It is like a stretched out rubber band with discrete points written on it and all those instances are visibly discrete but in experiencing duration or (living life) we experience our past as that same rubber band without tension. One can no longer discern individual experiences so easily but they are still there.
I am not necessarily saying that our soul is our memory. I am simply using the bergson rubber band thing as a rough shod analogy for the manner in which our metaphysical study of the soul may be experienced.
To answer Sun's question about the worth and transferability of the soul, I would say. My soul's worth to me is exactly how much I value myself within the context of my belief structure. My eternal soul (as I do have one, because I have intuited it) I have no idea how much it is worth, as I am not a player on the eternal open market soul exchange. Can i sell it? I think I can barter it. In a more religious sense, that would be non-repentant sinning. In a more personal sense it would be commiting actions that would undermine my idealized sense of self.
A soul is only worth what value others put on it? (talking of the divine and sin, again can soul reasonable be measured weighed by ethical standards, morality immorality, law)
Can the law be the yard stick for the soul?
---------- Post added 06-05-2010 at 03:26 AM ----------
mark noble;172540 wrote:Hi Sun,
This is along similar lines to your OP
How often, alone, in your thoughts do you need to be you?
Where in the world do you fit?
And, To whom are you true?
This helped me answer a lot of my own questions once. The answers have never changed.
Shine On, Sun
Mark...
Is not all soul communion, community, communication?
---------- Post added 06-05-2010 at 03:30 AM ----------
Deckard;172541 wrote:I was going to say "Property is Theft" but owning souls is more like murder by Proudhon's formulation.
If owning a soul has any meaning it would apply to slavery in the sense that a slave master owns the soul of the slave and the slave-trader buys and sells the souls of slaves.
Can you give your soul away? Well you can lay down your life for another but self-sacrifice is something else entirely.
Perhaps we have it all wrong and the ONLY thing that can be owned or owns is the soul and all else including flesh is nought but worthless?
Perhaps soul owns us?
---------- Post added 06-05-2010 at 03:33 AM ----------
And Deckard perhaps sacrifice is the ultimate souls control?
Perhaps the soul fights us all its existence to be able to sacrifice the body so as to let the soul be truly free?
---------- Post added 06-05-2010 at 03:36 AM ----------
Deckard;
Perhaps the soul is looking for the other to be the sacrifice?
Perhaps the soul is working to be worth enough for someone else to sacrifice for it?
---------- Post added 06-05-2010 at 03:37 AM ----------
Deckard; does a soul teach soul?
or does a soul only learn soul?
Which has the more valuable 'soul' the teacher or the pupil?
---------- Post added 06-05-2010 at 03:40 AM ----------
Mad Mike;172609 wrote:This is a topic that's sort of near and dear to me, so I was browsing this thread with some interest, but unless I missed it, I still haven't seen anyone propose a definition of soul. So what the heck, I'll offer this as an opener:
"Soul is that which, when it is present in a physical object, the object is said to be living, and when it is absent, the object is said to be dead."
For me, it's not a problem that this means soul is synonymous with life, but I suppose someone else might object to that.
Is the soul the sayer or the said?
---------- Post added 06-05-2010 at 03:44 AM ----------
Zetherin;172611 wrote:Ah, so all living organisms have souls? Even tiny amoebas, since they are considered living? Interesting. And where do all the souls go after they leave the organism upon death? I must have removed at least a dozen souls from the ants I stepped on today. I suppose you could even say I now own their souls! What do you think?
This says you own their life because you killed them.
So to say this Hitler owns the souls of all the people he killed.
Even if you want to take soul out of the picture, did not they die FOR something not because of something?
You could say here FOR is soul, but don't if you don't want to.
FOR is still a value is it not?
---------- Post added 06-05-2010 at 03:51 AM ----------
reasoning logic;172621 wrote:When I think of the word soul this is what comes some what close to what I have in mind.
The word
psychology literally means, "study of the
soul".
[1] It derives from
Ancient Greek: "ψυχή" (
psychē, meaning "breath", "spirit", or "soul"); and "-λογία" (
-logia, translated as "study of").
[1] The Latin word
psychologia has likely origins in mid-16th century Germany. The earliest known referernce to the English word
psychology was by
Steven Blankaart in 1693 in
The Physical Dictionary which refers to "Anatomy, which treats of the Body, and Psychology, which treats of the Soul
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psyche_(psychology
Soul then is expression of self?
What is expression?
It is the measurable action or reaction of things.
Yes psychology could mean soul.
Now we delve into sanity or insanity also and whether if you are reasoned as more insane whether you have more or less soul?
Can the soul or psyche here be weighed and measure by the criteria of either the common mind or even intelligence be the weighing evaluation?
EVALUATION.
Can any one soul be heavier lighter than another one soul?
Common?
Is the soul intelligence?
Is there more or less intelligence?
---------- Post added 06-05-2010 at 03:59 AM ----------
Huxley;172646 wrote:(1) My stomach confines my body to the set of actions that will satisfy the stomach.
(2) Given our current economic model, my body must then act such that it remains employed.
(3) In order to remain employed, one must do as their employer directs.
(4) Due to (1) and (2), one must always have an employer.
(5) Ownership of an object is the ability to direct that object.
(6) Whatever the soul is, it is confined to the body (at least in this life)
(7) The body is an object.
Putting things together: My employer directs my body (an object), which houses the soul, and this is, by definition proposed in (5), ownership. Further, this is a necessary condition of existence due to (1), (2). Therefore, My employer owns my soul.
Emphasis on SATISFACTION.
What is the quality that satisfies?
What is the quality of satisfaction?
EQUALITY?
Opposite of equality is???
Can the soul be referenced be prejudicial?
Must the soul be paid?
Must the soul earn?
Can the soul skive off?
Is the soul the skivvy?
---------- Post added 06-05-2010 at 04:05 AM ----------
Ding_an_Sich;172659 wrote:A soul is but a thing/
That withers through time/
Within man's being/
Oh how we make it sublime/
When it becomes apparent/
That our face reflects it/
A portal to the spiritual/
Perceived through the material/
If it could be bought/
I scarce think one would want/
The one he has withered and worn/
But a bright one, newly born/
Oh if man knew of the soul/
Perhaps he would not be so bold/
To not let his folly run afoul/
And preserve the soul, thus extolled/
Silly silly.
Soul is....
Sublime is sublimation?
Apparent is transparent?
Reflection is deflection?
Preserved is reserved?
---------- Post added 06-05-2010 at 04:09 AM ----------
Deckard;172661 wrote:Ownership is a legal construct. Possession might be more accurate.
I don't disagree with what you are saying. It just occurred to me that it may be useful to distinguish between ownership and possession.
Ownership is an agreement between the owner and the owned?
Possession is an entitlement between possessed and possessor?
---------- Post added 06-05-2010 at 04:11 AM ----------
Mad Mike;172770 wrote:I think all living organisms have a share of soul, even tiny amoebas, yes. But I don't think "where" has anything to do with what happens to the bits of soul in organisms at death, because I think everything living is always "in" soul. As for those ants, I don't think you "own" their souls by killing them, but you might "own" the karma of killing them.
Karma the ultimate in debt collectors.
---------- Post added 06-05-2010 at 04:13 AM ----------
Karma; what pays the life or the death? Both? soul?
---------- Post added 06-05-2010 at 04:19 AM ----------
ughaibu;172780 wrote:Is this associated with anything in particular, for example, self organisation, self direction?
Higher auctioner adding value or cheapening it?
Is there an auctioner or is it only the seller and purchaser?
In other words do souls have choice over the body to the body over the soul?
Soul soul serving?
Self self serving?
SERVICE?
Is the soul a service?
Is this how one can measure soul by the service?
What not who is being served first or last or all instantaneously?
---------- Post added 06-05-2010 at 04:21 AM ----------
Mad Mike;172770 wrote:I think all living organisms have a share of soul, even tiny amoebas, yes. But I don't think "where" has anything to do with what happens to the bits of soul in organisms at death, because I think everything living is always "in" soul. As for those ants, I don't think you "own" their souls by killing them, but you might "own" the karma of killing them.
Back again, the 'where'.
Can something be valued by the position it takes or is shown its seat?
Is there a place for soul?
Is it seated somewhere?
Is it waiting to be seated?
---------- Post added 06-05-2010 at 04:24 AM ----------
Sorry Twirlip I did not quite get to you, will see you tomorrow.