Avoidance of Fate

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kennethamy
 
Reply Sun 2 May, 2010 07:34 am
@platorepublic,
platorepublic;159226 wrote:
Fate is a word.

Fate is the future.

---------- Post added 05-02-2010 at 10:08 AM ----------

Fate comes from Greek & Roman Mythology the three goddesses who preside over the birth and life of humans. Each person's destiny was thought of as a thread spun, measured, and cut by the three Fates, Clotho, Lachesis, and Atropos. Also called the Moirai and the Parcae.


"Fate" is a word. But, if there is such a thing as fate, it is not a word. Perhaps you mean, "only a word", and I think that is true. Of course, what happens in the future is not inevitable, although, of course, it is trivially true that whatever will happen will happen. As the old song goes, "Che sera, sera". But that does not mean, of course, that whatever will happen must happen. The confusion between: 1. Whatever will happen will happen, and 2. whatever will happen must happen, is a large part of the answer to the question, "Why do some people believe in fate?".
 
prothero
 
Reply Sun 2 May, 2010 09:21 am
@sometime sun,
Perhaps one should just focus on the avoidance of futility, and leave fate to its own devices.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sun 2 May, 2010 09:34 am
@prothero,
prothero;159317 wrote:
Perhaps one should just focus on the avoidance of futility, and leave fate to its own devices.


Of course, you cannot avoid fate. That would be a contradiction. But, on the other hand, you can certainly avoid what you mistakenly believe is fated. It would be futile even to attempt to avoid what is fated, and we should avoid that. Unless, of course, futility is fated. See Sisyphus.
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Sun 2 May, 2010 07:04 pm
@sometime sun,
sometime sun;159228 wrote:

Fate is the inevitable, and the future is not inevitable.

I think although this came before is similar to kennethamy's reply, but illustrates it a little simple rand better.

'Fate is the inevitable, and the future is not inevitable'
I think this is important and consise, and needs a little more attention.
 
Pepijn Sweep
 
Reply Mon 3 May, 2010 12:37 am
@sometime sun,
Copper everywere. Till the storage for onions and potatoes. Even an electric water-cooker.
 
prothero
 
Reply Mon 3 May, 2010 12:41 am
@sometime sun,
sometime sun;159451 wrote:
I think although this came before is similar to kennethamy's reply, but illustrates it a little simple rand better.

'Fate is the inevitable, and the future is not inevitable'
I think this is important and consise, and needs a little more attention.
Well if it were really fate, you could not avoid it could you?
 
Pepijn Sweep
 
Reply Mon 3 May, 2010 01:20 am
@sometime sun,
Fade to Grey

Full Color
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Mon 3 May, 2010 08:52 am
@prothero,
prothero;159483 wrote:
Well if it were really fate, you could not avoid it could you?

And Because fate cannot be avoided and fate is not the future are you asking if the future can be avoided?
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Mon 3 May, 2010 09:23 am
@sometime sun,
sometime sun;159451 wrote:
I think although this came before is similar to kennethamy's reply, but illustrates it a little simple rand better.

'Fate is the inevitable, and the future is not inevitable'
I think this is important and consise, and needs a little more attention.


Yes. By definition, our fate is unavoidable, for if it were avoidable, how could it be our fate? But what at least some of what happens in the future may, indeed. be unavoidable (e.g. death and taxes) but if it is not so by definition. And may, in God's own time, cease to be unavoidable. We await an immortality serum, and invisibility from the tax man.
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Mon 3 May, 2010 06:14 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;159579 wrote:
Yes. By definition, our fate is unavoidable, for if it were avoidable, how could it be our fate? But what at least some of what happens in the future may, indeed. be unavoidable (e.g. death and taxes) but if it is not so by definition. And may, in God's own time, cease to be unavoidable. We await an immortality serum, and invisibility from the tax man.

So immortality is that only true avoidable of fate?
Is anything of life fate?
For future is only measured by life.

What is fatalism?
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Mon 3 May, 2010 07:57 pm
@sometime sun,
sometime sun;159720 wrote:


What is fatalism?


I thought I had already said that fatalism is the doctrine that whatever occurs must occur. That if some event occurs, is is impossible that it should not occur. And I pointed out that this is true in a trivial sense, but it is false in a non-trivial sense.

It is true that for all E it is impossible for E to occur and E not to occur. This is the trivial sense in which fatalism is true. But it is false that for all E, if E occurs it was impossible that E should not have occurred. That is non-trivial sense of fatalism. The thing is that we should not confuse the trivial sense of "fatalism" with the non-trivial sense of "fatalism", and think that because the fatalism is true in the trivial sense, that it is true in the non-trivial sense.
 
Fido
 
Reply Mon 3 May, 2010 10:03 pm
@sometime sun,
Fate has often been a source of mercy as a fact, since many people, even today accept that no one can be killed unless it is written, that is, fated to happen...But the argument is still made that those who did the deed must still pay even if the hand of fate...There is no absolute need for a death for a death...
 
Pepijn Sweep
 
Reply Mon 3 May, 2010 11:40 pm
@Fido,
Faith rules your birth, your live and your death. You might ask Ariadne weave your threads while looking for Minostauros.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 12:27 am
@Fido,
Fido;159784 wrote:
Fate has often been a source of mercy as a fact, since many people, even today accept that no one can be killed unless it is written, that is, fated to happen...But the argument is still made that those who did the deed must still pay even if the hand of fate...There is no absolute need for a death for a death...


I see you have decided to leave philosophy in the dust again and resume myth. I have just shown that fatalism is true only in a trivial, tautological sense.
 
Pepijn Sweep
 
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 12:49 am
@kennethamy,
I think myth is an excellent source of information, lacking other sources...
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 12:54 am
@Pepijn Sweep,
Pepijn Sweep;159845 wrote:
I think myth is an excellent source of information, lacking other sources...


Information about what? To say that something is a myth is to imply that it is false. So how can a myth be a source of information?
 
Pepijn Sweep
 
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 01:09 am
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;159848 wrote:
Information about what? To say that something is a myth is to imply that it is false. So how can a myth be a source of information?


Myth / story handed down from olden times, esp. concepts or believes about the early history of a race, explantions of natural events, such as the seasons

Oxford Advanced Lerner's Dictionry of Currennt English

Mythology studies these stories, not at face value but with scientific methods as geologie, agriculture, languages, religions and architecture.

PS:bigsmile:
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 03:01 am
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;159848 wrote:
Information about what? To say that something is a myth is to imply that it is false. So how can a myth be a source of information?
Because it rely's on an allerged observation, some dismiss valid information as a myth, you should know that KA, it's very simple.
 
Fido
 
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 04:16 am
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;159834 wrote:
I see you have decided to leave philosophy in the dust again and resume myth. I have just shown that fatalism is true only in a trivial, tautological sense.

Okay Kenn; You have covered great ground... But that fact that Fate as a reality to people was oniversal to humanity and is still widely accepted is worth something to philosophy...There is simply no way to understand history or prehistory without grasping what a hold fate held on people's lives in their minds...
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 05:20 am
@Fido,
Fido;159891 wrote:
Okay Kenn; You have covered great ground... But that fact that Fate as a reality to people was oniversal to humanity and is still widely accepted is worth something to philosophy...There is simply no way to understand history or prehistory without grasping what a hold fate held on people's lives in their minds...


That Earth is flat is still "a reality to people". That is, some people believe that the Earth is flat. Of course, lots of people used to believe the Earth was flat. And that is a part of the explanation of why people were did not want to explore the world. They were afraid that they would fall off if they went beyond the horizon. But that does not mean that the belief that the world is flat is not false. Not even if the belief explains why people did not want to explore the world. False beliefs, i.e. myths can explain some things about people. That does not mean that they are not false, though.
 
 

 
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