The Haiti Disaster

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Reply Mon 18 Jan, 2010 12:57 am
Does it take a huge tragedy for humanity to put down their petty differences and join in as one army of altruists solders? (My comment Alan)

2010 Haiti earthquake - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Main article: Casualties of the 2010 Haiti earthquake

Brazilian aid worker Zilda Arns was killed in the earthquake.
Estimates of the number of dead range from 45,000 to 200,000.[8][85][3] The earthquake struck in the most populated area of the country and the International Red Cross has stated that as many as 3 million people have been affected by the quake.[7]

The great majority of those killed were Haitian, while many non-Haitians from various countries also perished. Several public figures died in the earthquake, including government officials, clergy members, musicians, and foreign civilian and military personnel working with the United Nations.

One factor that compounded the number of casualties in the early days of the earthquake was a lack of medical and rescue infrastructure and personnel. Medical facilities had been badly damaged in the earthquake and both Haitian and foreign medical staff, police, and military personnel were casualties. Soon after the quake struck appeals for international aid were issued by Haitian government officials, including Raymond Joseph, Haiti's ambassador to the United States.[86] Foreign governments and non-governments also assisted in the aid effort, but many of the injured in the initial days after the earthquake did not have access to health care and died.

While the overwhelming number of casualties were Haitian civilians, prominent figures from Haiti and abroad died or were injured. Those killed include Monsignor Joseph Serge Miot, the Archbishop of Port-au-Prince,[87] and officials in the Haitian government, including Justice Minister Paul Denis and opposition leader Michel Gaillard;[88] and numerous prominent Haitian musicians.[66] At least 37 United Nations personnel working with United Nations Stabilization Mission in Haiti (MINUSTAH) were confirmed dead and over 300 remained missing and presumably buried in the building rubble.[89] Many foreign civilians also died, including citizens of the U.S.,

China, Argentina, Brazil, Canada, the Dominican Republic, France, Germany, Mexico, New Zealand, The Netherlands, Peru,[90] Taiwan, Spain and the United Kingdom.[91] Among them was Brazilian pediatrician, humanitarian and Nobel Peace Prize nominee Dr. Zilda Arns.[92]

A minister for the Haitian government reported on 16 January that nearly 20,000 bodies had been recovered by government crews.[93] Some reports indicated 250,000 people sustained injuries, and as many as one million Haitians were left homeless.[94] Experts caution that any final death toll will be a "guesstimate" as the scale of the disaster makes an accurate tally impossible.[95]
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Mon 18 Jan, 2010 05:50 pm
@Alan McDougall,
I heard someone close to me say that it was the earths way of telling us to stop breeding, and i quote 'and the earth will always find a way to cull its population' we do it to animals why should this be any different than another animal cull by something infinately more powerful than ourselves? Whether it has a consciousness is another matter for another time, however the time is right now there really is not any to waste, i am not sure what disturbed me more about this, that it is true and the earth grows weary of our weight or that it is still true but we are a herd of beasts that which needs population control, we are at the mercy of one being that does not approve of us or we are at the mercy of a world that does not care enough to protect us. There are still people dying, more than is avoidable, shame on me.
I feel for these people especially that they have such a poor government so as to still be suffering for some considerable time to come.
Just wait, another disater is coming for us. Watch this space. We cant jump off world. We are not ready, i dont think we ever will be.
You can never prepare for a rainy day.
Will you be ready to survive or will you be just another beast the world has grown tired of and can give up with such abandon?
Can it/disaster/death be avoided? can we avoid our world? even if by calling it a cull we avoid ourselves?
The flood is coming people and we dont stay afloat with out a boat.
Governments wont save you, you will just as always have to do it for yourself.
We are not doing enough.
I am only just about enough for myself and it is not even pouring on me, yet.

Sorry for the lack of hope, but this may just be a hopeless cause?
 
Alan McDougall
 
Reply Fri 22 Jan, 2010 05:06 am
@sometime sun,

Source of news CNN

Port-au-Prince "is flattened," said Haiti's consul general to the U.N., Felix Augustin, who said he believed more than 100,000 people were dead.
But Preval said other estimates ranged from 30,000 to 50,000.
"It's too early to give a number," Preval said.

Hear the prime minister describe the situation

The 7.0-magnitude earthquake struck shortly before 5 p.m. Tuesday, centered about 10 miles (15 kilometers) southwest of Port-au-Prince, the U.S. Geological Survey reported. It could be felt strongly in eastern Cuba, more than 200 miles away.

The earthquake's power matched that of several nuclear bombs, said Roger Searle, a professor of geophysics in the Earth Sciences Department at Durham University in England. He said the combination of its magnitude and geographical shallowness made it particularly dangerous.

About 3 million people -- one-third of Haiti's population -- were affected by the quake, the Red Cross said. About 10 million people most likely felt shaking from the earthquake, the U.S. Geological Survey said.

As night fell over the island Wednesday, gunshots sounded off in Port-au-Prince. Screams and wails could be heard with each aftershock. Some people who still had homes refused to go inside, fearing collapse. Scores huddled together in parks and sidewalks, trying to get rest.

Though planes carrying aid began arriving Wednesday, humanitarian groups struggled to get the supplies to victims due to the poor roads and debris.

There was no clear system for clearing debris, removing bodies and treating the injured, officials and journalists reported.

"Simply getting through the streets to collect the dead bodies is seemingly an impossible task," CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta reported from the capital, where shooting could be heard in the background. "There's hardly any heavy machinery to try and dig through the rubble -- people are doing it by hand.

"The hospitals themselves -- the destination of those patients who might survive -- they're nonexistent or have a terrible infrastructure," Gupta said.

Haiti native and "Heroes" cast member Jimmy Jean-Louis was searching for his elderly parents in Haiti on Wednesday. He said the Haitian government is not up to addressing the overwhelming nature of the disaster.

"Just as an example ... we had one school that collapsed -- one school, and we were unable to take care of that," he said, referring to a November 2008 incident that killed 90 people in Petionville, Haiti. "This year, we have the entire city [of Port-au-Prince] that collapsed, including the major points such as hospitals, hotels and even the presidential palace."

Former President Clinton, the U.N. special envoy to Haiti, appealed to the public to support programs that will provide food, water, shelter and medical supplies to the impoverished country.
"The most important thing you can do is not to send those supplies, but to send cash" to relief agencies, Clinton said.

Governments and agencies across the globe geared up to help, including rescue teams from China, Iceland and France, Haiti's onetime colonial ruler; aid flights and 3 million euros ($4.35 million) from Spain; doctors from Cuba; and a field hospital from Russia.
U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said the United Nations plans to release $10 million in aid immediately, while the World Bank pledged another $100 million Wednesday afternoon.

President Obama promised a "swift, coordinated and aggressive" response from the United States.

"The reports and images that we've seen of collapsed hospitals, crumbled homes and men and women carrying their injured neighbors through the streets are truly heart-wrenching," Obama said.

Clinton also urged international leaders to fulfill their previous donor commitments to Haiti.
"Most countries are way behind on fulfilling it. ... If you can provide any emergency help, if you can give us helicopters or basic medical supplies -- we need that," Clinton said.

The U.S. military is working to get ground and air assessments of the damage, with Coast Guard cutters, airplanes and choppers deploying to the scene, and Navy ships preparing to leave.

Two Coast Guard crews of C-130 Hercules fixed-wing aircraft were evacuating nearly 140 U.S. personnel to Santo Domingo, Dominican

Republic. Nine critically injured peopled were taken to the U.S. Naval Hospital Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

Numerous relief organizations were already working in Haiti, the Western Hemisphere's poorest country, when the quake struck Tuesday afternoon. Aid groups scrambled to help in the aftermath of the quake, but were struggling with the same problems as ordinary Haitians.

In a small clinic in Port-au-Prince, doctors were overwhelmed with the causalities coming in. Bodies and bleeding wounded seemed to cover every inch of the clinic.

A woman with a broken leg sat on the floor next to the body of a dead toddler who was covered by a sheet. She'd been waiting for treatment since Tuesday.

A CNN crew at the clinic counted at least 13 other adult bodies piled outside. Others were still alive, leaning on walls, lying on floors in despair.

None of the three aid centers run by Doctors Without Borders was operable Wednesday, the group said. The organization was focusing on re-establishing surgical capacity so it could deal with the crushed limbs and head wounds it is seeing.

The earthquake sheared huge slabs of concrete off structures and pancaked scores of buildings, trapping people inside those buildings, and knocking down phone and power lines.

"One woman, I could only see her head and the rest of her body was trapped under a block wall," said Jonathan de la Durantaye, who drove through Port-au-Prince after the quake. "I think she was dead. She had blood coming out of her eyes and nose and ears."

The headquarters of the U.N. mission in Haiti, a peacekeeping and police force established after the 2004 ouster of then-President Jean-Bertrand Aristide, collapsed during the quake, leaving leaving about 150 members unaccounted for, U.N. officials in New York said Wednesday. At least 10 survivors were pulled from rubble at the U.N. mission, according to former President Clinton.

The top two civilian officials at the U.N. mission, Special Representative Hedi Annabi and his deputy, Luiz Carlos da Costa, were believed trapped in the rubble of the hotel that housed the world body's headquarters, their fates unknown, said Alain Le Roy, the undersecretary-general for peacekeeping operations.

The Brazilian-led mission has about 9,000 troops, police and civilian staff in Haiti, about a third of whom were in Port-au-Prince. At least 16 peacekeepers, including 11 Brazilians, three Jordanians, one Argentine and one Chadian, were reported dead Wednesday afternoon, U.N. officials said.

Also among the dead was Joseph Serge Miot, the Roman Catholic archbishop of Port-au-Prince, according to the official Vatican newspaper.

The archbishop was buried beneath rubble along with 100 priests and aspiring priests attending a religious conference, Papal Nuncio

Bernardito Auza told the Vatican's Fides news agency.
"There were priests and nuns in the street. ... Everywhere, you heard cries from beneath the rubble," Auza said.

Authorities braced for civil disturbances. Edmond Mulet, the U.N. assistant secretary-general for peacekeeping operations, told CNN that the 95-year-old, badly overcrowded National Penitentiary in the capital, collapsed and the inmates escaped, prompting worries about looting by escapees.

Obama urged Americans trying to locate family members in Haiti to telephone the State Department at 1-888-407-4747
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Sat 23 Jan, 2010 10:33 pm
@Alan McDougall,
 
Theaetetus
 
Reply Sun 24 Jan, 2010 10:19 am
@Alan McDougall,
Haiti was wrecked before the earthquake. It is the poorest nation in the Western Hemisphere and it is too bad that it took a serious tragedy for the world to pay attention and do something about a nation ruined by the colonizations of the Europeans.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sun 24 Jan, 2010 10:24 am
@Theaetetus,
Theaetetus;122151 wrote:
Haiti was wrecked before the earthquake. It is the poorest nation in the Western Hemisphere and it is too bad that it took a serious tragedy for the world to pay attention and do something about a nation ruined by the colonizations of the Europeans.


I wonder why other places colonized by Europeans managed so well, though. The United States, for one. India, for another. Those Europeans! It is always their fault! And remember too, George W. Bush is a Texan-European. That's the clincher.
 
manored
 
Reply Sun 24 Jan, 2010 11:04 am
@sometime sun,
sometime sun;120903 wrote:
I heard someone close to me say that it was the earths way of telling us to stop breeding, and i quote 'and the earth will always find a way to cull its population' we do it to animals why should this be any different than another animal cull by something infinately more powerful than ourselves? Whether it has a consciousness is another matter for another time, however the time is right now there really is not any to waste, i am not sure what disturbed me more about this, that it is true and the earth grows weary of our weight or that it is still true but we are a herd of beasts that which needs population control, we are at the mercy of one being that does not approve of us or we are at the mercy of a world that does not care enough to protect us. There are still people dying, more than is avoidable, shame on me.
I feel for these people especially that they have such a poor government so as to still be suffering for some considerable time to come.
Just wait, another disater is coming for us. Watch this space. We cant jump off world. We are not ready, i dont think we ever will be.
You can never prepare for a rainy day.
Will you be ready to survive or will you be just another beast the world has grown tired of and can give up with such abandon?
Can it/disaster/death be avoided? can we avoid our world? even if by calling it a cull we avoid ourselves?
The flood is coming people and we dont stay afloat with out a boat.
Governments wont save you, you will just as always have to do it for yourself.
We are not doing enough.
I am only just about enough for myself and it is not even pouring on me, yet.

Sorry for the lack of hope, but this may just be a hopeless cause?
Peace cannot last forever, there will always be something to disrupt it, perhaps temporarily, perhaps permanently, but this doesnt means its useless to try to mantain peace. For example, this disaster in Haiti would be much smaller if they had a decent infrastructure and their building were earth-quake proof. But even the presidential palace and other important buildings collapsed.


This whole thing is just like the face of humanity, Haitians didnt had food before... now that they dont have food because of an earthquake, people send food... I suspect its more an international competition to see who is nicer in face of an event that called everyone's attention than anything else. That goes for countries and great companies, at least, ongs and the general public are just going with the tide, I suppose.

Not that I endorse sending food in troubleless times, Im always for teaching to fish rather than giving fish. Im not against seending aid in a specially troublesome situation either. It just seems to me the world is being hypocrite by not caring much before and caring a lot now, and that is a bothersome reminder of how humanity is.
 
Theaetetus
 
Reply Sun 24 Jan, 2010 12:25 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;122153 wrote:
I wonder why other places colonized by Europeans managed so well, though. The United States, for one. India, for another. Those Europeans! It is always their fault! And remember too, George W. Bush is a Texan-European. That's the clincher.


Considering that Haiti was ravaged as a sugar colony and depleted of nearly all of their natural resources, it is a bit different than they others you list. How can you even begin to compare the U.S. and India to Haiti. First off, Haiti is on an island and is much smaller. Its history is also much different. For one, tourism never set into Haiti like many other Caribbean nations boosting their economies. Go figure, geography and history explain the difference.

But I don't know why I am even bothering to respond. All I will get is another smart-assed simpleminded comment that does nothing to add to the conversation. Yet another notorious stain on the forum by the always predictable kennethamy!
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sun 24 Jan, 2010 02:02 pm
@Theaetetus,
Theaetetus;122163 wrote:
Considering that Haiti was ravaged as a sugar colony and depleted of nearly all of their natural resources, it is a bit different than they others you list. How can you even begin to compare the U.S. and India to Haiti. First off, Haiti is on an island and is much smaller. Its history is also much different. For one, tourism never set into Haiti like many other Caribbean nations boosting their economies. Go figure, geography and history explain the difference.

But I don't know why I am even bothering to respond. All I will get is another smart-assed simpleminded comment that does nothing to add to the conversation. Yet another notorious stain on the forum by the always predictable kennethamy!


Notorious!!!? I thought you said it was all the fault of European colonization. Apparently it is not. So the fault is what? That Haiti is small? That it has little tourism? (Whose fault is that?) Or that it isn't India or the USA? Exactly what are you saying? Except that everything is the fault of Europeans and Texans? It is ever the fault of others, and never one's own fault. I suppose that's the infallible truth. Typical liberalism in action. The earthquake fault was not that of people of Haiti. But after 210 years of independence, that they and their government were helpless in dealing with it, that's another issue. You think it is the fault of colonization, although Haiti has been independent (and not a colony) for 210 years. Doesn't that sound implausible; even to you?

And, speaking of predictability, do you ever use an argument that is not an abusive ad hominem?
 
Pepijn Sweep
 
Reply Sun 24 Jan, 2010 03:44 pm
@Theaetetus,
Americans also occupied Haiti. And not all European countries colonized.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sun 24 Jan, 2010 03:55 pm
@Pepijn Sweep,
Pepijn Sweep;122201 wrote:
Americans also occupied Haiti. And not all European countries colonized.


It still seems strange to blame colonialization when Haiti hasn't been a colony for 210 years. Don't facts matter?
 
Pepijn Sweep
 
Reply Sun 24 Jan, 2010 04:01 pm
@Theaetetus,
most importantly was the us occupation, ending in the dictatorship
Haiti's capital fled to the us-banks, repaying loans. The loans were necessary to pay the French. Compensating the loss of the colony.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sun 24 Jan, 2010 04:05 pm
@Pepijn Sweep,
Pepijn Sweep;122212 wrote:
most importantly was the us occupation, ending in the dictatorship
Haiti's capital fled to the us-banks, repaying loans. The loans were necessary to pay the French. Compensating the loss of the colony.


How long ago was all this? And what happened since? I'll repeat it again: since Haiti has not been a colony for 210 years, it is implausible that its helplessness was a consequence of its colonization.
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Sun 24 Jan, 2010 04:33 pm
@manored,
manored;122157 wrote:
Peace cannot last forever, there will always be something to disrupt it, perhaps temporarily, perhaps permanently, but this doesnt means its useless to try to mantain peace. For example, this disaster in Haiti would be much smaller if they had a decent infrastructure and their building were earth-quake proof. But even the presidential palace and other important buildings collapsed.


This whole thing is just like the face of humanity, Haitians didnt had food before... now that they dont have food because of an earthquake, people send food... I suspect its more an international competition to see who is nicer in face of an event that called everyone's attention than anything else. That goes for countries and great companies, at least, ongs and the general public are just going with the tide, I suppose.

Not that I endorse sending food in troubleless times, Im always for teaching to fish rather than giving fish. Im not against seending aid in a specially troublesome situation either. It just seems to me the world is being hypocrite by not caring much before and caring a lot now, and that is a bothersome reminder of how humanity is.

True Peace transcends time you have caught and catch something that you could not be without and even forget to wonder what it was you missed before you had it. You just have it and all else is forgotten.
Planetary peace i suspect is something quite different from True peace.
When it comes to humans being i often wonder if True peace is possible in life and no tonly in death. But hey at least we are pretending to do something abou something.
Yes me may never be able to truely be prepared for rainy days such as these doe snot mean we should not try especially when we have the knowledge and resourses to accomplish some better semblance of safety for the huam race.
People ar enicer in these times because they wake up to the fact it could happen to them and would want also to be compensated when it will happen to them.
They care sure but it is selfish, is there any such thing as a selfless act that is not born of some form of selfishness?
The fish will all be gone soon, nothing left to teach.
All there will be left is beggars in street with no-one to give to them not because we will be without carity but becaus ethere will nothing to spare.
They were easily dismissed befor ethe disaster because they were not us.
Disaster reminds us all that we are the same and that this is happening to all of us.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sun 24 Jan, 2010 05:06 pm
@sometime sun,
sometime sun;122237 wrote:

They care sure but it is selfish, is there any such thing as a selfless act that is not born of some form of selfishness?


I went to sleep last night because I was very sleepy. Was that selfish of me? I don't think so. Everyone else was already asleep.
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Sun 24 Jan, 2010 05:31 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;122249 wrote:
I went to sleep last night because I was very sleepy. Was that selfish of me? I don't think so. Everyone else was already asleep.

Never said selfish was un-natural, never said it was not needed either.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sun 24 Jan, 2010 06:00 pm
@sometime sun,
sometime sun;122259 wrote:
Never said selfish was un-natural, never said it was not needed either.


But it is not selfish for me to go to sleep when I am tired, is it? But you doubted whether any action was not selfish. Didn't you? So, going to sleep when tired is an action, but it is clearly not a selfish action.
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Sun 24 Jan, 2010 06:11 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;122268 wrote:
But it is not selfish for me to go to sleep when I am tired, is it? But you doubted whether any action was not selfish. Didn't you? So, going to sleep when tired is an action, but it is clearly not a selfish action.

Selfish then becomes not an action are you asking?
Selfish then becomes an inaction i am saying is possible.
There are many kinds of inaction, more than we can believe we rely upon.
Always thinking what keeps us alive is action.
So i would say sleep is an inactioning.
An action for inactions sake. An inaction for actions sake.
No debate necessary.
Whether it is voluntary does not matter because involuntary means more than voluntary, it beats it. And without it we would be beaten.

Self has nothing to do with action?
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sun 24 Jan, 2010 06:19 pm
@sometime sun,
sometime sun;122271 wrote:
Selfish then becomes not an action are you asking?
Selfish then becomes an inaction i am saying is possible.
There are many kinds of inaction, more than we can believe we rely upon.
Always thinking what keeps us alive is action.
So i would say sleep is an inactioning.
An action for inactions sake. An inaction for actions sake.
No debate necessary.
Whether it is voluntary does not matter because involuntary means more than voluntary, it beats it. And without it we would be beaten.

Self has nothing to do with action?


1. Going to sleep is an action.
2. But going to sleep when tired is not a selfish action.

Therefore, 3, There are actions that are not selfish. QED

"Logic is logic. That's all I can say". Oliver Wendall Holmes.
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Sun 24 Jan, 2010 06:33 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;122274 wrote:
1. Going to sleep is an action.
2. But going to sleep when tired is not a selfish action.

Therefore, 3, There are actions that are not selfish. QED

"Logic is logic. That's all I can say". Oliver Wendall Holmes.

Agreed it is not selfish because it is a action of inactioning or an inactioning of action.
It holds no reason because it is same backwards as frontwards, it cancels itself out it has no reason and does not need to be explained.
It is just for the is of it.
No debating it.
Neither selfish or selfless.
But not all actions are that separable from inactioning, an action of actioning could possibly be as much selfish for its ends as for selfless endings.
You did not have action over whether you were tired or not it was an inaction for actions sake just as much an action for inactions sake.
Inactioning for of inactioning is non existent.
 
 

 
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