What are "vibrational movements"

Hi manored.

Could be. The body just heals itself if left alone. On the other hand, for me, and my friends/students there are things that seem to work very well, such as massage, cupping, gua sha, which removes blood stagnation. No different than using a plunger on a stopped pipe.

But those involve actual interference with the body, unlike terapies involving only sound/smell/light/etc, so its only natural that they do have some effect independent of one's mind.

Hi manored,

I like your comments and questions.

Holistic or alternative medicine does not distinguish between mind and body. To affect one is to affect the other.

Some health practices, like massage or herbs, affect the physical more than the mental or spiritual. Others may affect the spiritual more, e.g. meditation. While others may be more mental and relaxing: e.g. certain yoga postures. If someone is sensitive, then certain energetic practices, may have a very deep and healthy effect - e.g. music, aromatheraphy, etc. Each person is different. I use all types depending upon my mood, e.g. Tai Chi, yoga, music, meditation, deep Chinese massage (tuina), cupping, breathing, tennis, golf, etc. They all are part of my life health practices.

Here is an image exemplifying how it all a continuum, by Alex Gray:

Hi manored,

I like your comments and questions.

Holistic or alternative medicine does not distinguish between mind and body. To affect one is to affect the other.

Some health practices, like massage or herbs, affect the physical more than the mental or spiritual. Others may affect the spiritual more, e.g. meditation. While others may be more mental and relaxing: e.g. certain yoga postures. If someone is sensitive, then certain energetic practices, may have a very deep and healthy effect - e.g. music, aromatheraphy, etc. Each person is different. I use all types depending upon my mood, e.g. Tai Chi, yoga, music, meditation, deep Chinese massage (tuina), cupping, breathing, tennis, golf, etc. They all are part of my life health practices.

And this is the 21st century, too! I suppose that superstition (like the poor) will always be with us.

Hi manored,

I like your comments and questions.

Holistic or alternative medicine does not distinguish between mind and body. To affect one is to affect the other.

Some health practices, like massage or herbs, affect the physical more than the mental or spiritual. Others may affect the spiritual more, e.g. meditation. While others may be more mental and relaxing: e.g. certain yoga postures. If someone is sensitive, then certain energetic practices, may have a very deep and healthy effect - e.g. music, aromatheraphy, etc. Each person is different. I use all types depending upon my mood, e.g. Tai Chi, yoga, music, meditation, deep Chinese massage (tuina), cupping, breathing, tennis, golf, etc. They all are part of my life health practices.

Here is an image exemplifying how it all a continuum, by Alex Gray:

And this is the 21st century, too! I suppose that superstition (like the poor) will always be with us.

Ah, this is where we disagree, then. I think the body is just a vessel for the mind, wich is the trully important part of us, and that the connection between the is only sensorial, that is, affecting the body wont affect the mind outside of the sensorial input it will cause the mind to receive. I dont believe in "spirit" or "soul" because the mind fills that role already, and I dont see the necessity of complicating things by adding a third element.

Hi manored,

If you try a thought experiment which brings you to the point that mind/body just touch (i.e. communicate with each other, I think you will find it impossible to distinguish where one begins and one ends.

In quantum physics they call this entanglement. I call it a continuum.

An aspect of the continuum is best expressed as E=mc**2

Now, the question is whether there is a similar expression of mind to energy? I think that quantum physics is on the edge of this, but physics can never embrace this notion until mind can actually be measured, however, there is no notion of observer/observed entanglement which is at the precipice of this line of thinking

However, I do not need to wait, when it comes to health. I know that by simply relaxing my mind, I relax my body (this is easily demonstrated), so I infer the continuum or entanglement

If you try a thought experiment which brings you to the point that mind/body just touch (i.e. communicate with each other, I think you will find it impossible to distinguish where one begins and one ends.

In quantum physics they call this entanglement. I call it a continuum.

An aspect of the continuum is best expressed as E=mc**2. Now, the question is whether there is a similar expression of mind to energy? I think that quantum physics is on the edge of this, but physics can never embrace this notion until mind can actually be measured, however, there is a notion within quantum physics of observer/observed entanglement which is at the precipice of this line of thinking. But physics cannot dwell in this territory, though many famous quantum physicists such as Bohm and Bernard d' Espagnat do, as part of their philosophical inquiry.

not to put too fine a point upon it but when he isn't haranguing science he's mangling it into abominations of Lovecraftian proportions

I mean idk that is kind of harsh but ask yourself whether I'm calling a spade a spade

What doesnt means they are one and the same, just like its a bit tricky figuring out the exact spot where the bridge ends and the land beggings =)

I think quantum entanglement refers to super-position of realities, not super-position of entities in the same reality

I dont get the relation between that formula, used for mass X energy measurements, and quantum entanglement.

Yes, this is always a problem when one things of things as being disconnected. It is like separating a wave from another wave within an ocean. Where does it begin and where does it end? The waves are there, but they are all part of the same ocean. How does one separate that which is connected?

E=mc**2 is quite amazing in that it suggests all matter (which is quite obviously not energy just by touching an feeling it), is energy

Now it is a matter of relating mind/consciousness to energy to that there is a complete mathematical description of the continuum

Yes, this is always a problem when one things of things as being disconnected. It is like separating a wave from another wave within an ocean. Where does it begin and where does it end? The waves are there, but they are all part of the same ocean. How does one separate that which is connected?

E=mc**2 is quite amazing in that it suggests all matter (which is quite obviously not energy just by touching an feeling it), is energy. Now it is a matter of relating mind/consciousness to energy to that there is a complete mathematical description of the continuum. However, we may have to wait for some time to pass before this may happen.

Draw a line somewhere in the middle =)

Its confusing to refer to the mathematical formula rather than the teory itself =)

I dont quite get what you mean by "continuum"

By a continuum I mean there is no separation between consciousness/mind - energy - matter. It is all the same, but say that one is more dense than the other. So consciousness condenses into energy

I've posted this link here before, but I think it might be worthwhile to re-post for review in light of the current discussion:

Critical Thinking Field Guide (Skeptical Inquirer Winter 1990)

I've posted this link here before, but I think it might be worthwhile to re-post for review in light of the current discussion:

Critical Thinking Field Guide (Skeptical Inquirer Winter 1990)

Actually, I have always been skeptical of authors such as this one. Who the heck is his audience for this article?

There is no proof of existence.

There is no proof of free will.

There is no proof that anything he is writing has any effect on anyone.

There is no proof of consciousness.