When I have a pain in my leg, I understand that it is caused by some blood/energy stagnation which is causing the muscle (or whatever) to press hard against the nerves. So observation is first.

Then there is what to do about it. I try various things including massage, heat, guasha, cupping, acupuncture, herbs, dietary changes, stretching, etc.

When the pain goes away, I experience joy.

And that is the cycle of exploration, learning, and creating. Pain -> Joy.

Rich

But, apparently, you do not just accept it, which is what you said you did. But, perhaps some of the "remedies" you mentioned, like acupuncture and cupping (cupping? My grandmother did that! I am surprised you didn't try blood-letting too) are the same as acceptance. A recent study of acupuncture of 3,000 subjects showed that acupuncture and just the random sticking in of needles had the same results. In fact, the random sticking in of needles had somewhat better results. But that's science, of course, and you probably don't trust it.

If in some culture, horrible actions are practiced, they may "see it as a good thing". But, why would that mean it was not a horrible thing anyway. Many Nazis saw murder as a good thing. Why would anyone think that meant that murder was a good thing?

So, if a have developed a pain in my leg, trying to alleviate it may be very frustrating. So what I should do (according to you) is to accept it "as a natural cycle of learning, exploring, and creating" and not visit a physician?

Whenever Gutei Osho was asked about Zen, he simply raised a finger. Once a visitor asked Gutei's boy attendant, "What does your master teach?" The boy too raised his finger. Hearing of this, Gutei cut off the boy's finger with a knife. The boy, screaming with pain, began to run away. Gutei called to him, and when he turned around, Gutei raised his finger. The boy suddenly became enlightened.

But, apparently, you do not just accept it, which is what you said you did. But, perhaps some of the "remedies" you mentioned, like acupuncture and cupping (cupping? My grandmother did that! I am surprised you didn't try blood-letting too) are the same as acceptance. A recent study of acupuncture of 3,000 subjects showed that acupuncture and just the random sticking in of needles had the same results. In fact, the random sticking in of needles had somewhat better results. But that's science, of course, and you probably don't trust it.

I dont trust alternative medicine myself and believe it works because people believe it will, aka: positive though does it. But it might very well be that it works due to aspects of the human body we are yet to discover.

There would be no reason to do so, all protect their own senses of morality. But understanding that there is no absolute morality, or, at least, no one that can make such claim, makes one more flexible and helps to avoid conflict.

Why cant going to the physician be part of "learning, exploring and creating"? =)

I wonder why dont try talking rather than teaching through strategic removal of limbs =)

Is it? What if the scientists used a wrong or incomplete method of study? No matter how many people they tested, the results would be wrong.

I dont "trust science" much because scientists are human and imperfect as well as I am, a clear example is how certain kinds of foods shifted a lot from "good to health" to "bad to health" through time. There are always flaws and things that were not considered or not know in all studies and, thus, I prefer to trust my intuition and common sense than a study that points to something absurd, unless I can find no flaws on it.

I dont trust alternative medicine myself and believe it works because people believe it will, aka: positive though does it. But it might very well be that it works due to aspects of the human body we are yet to discover.

Going to a physician is like trying to get better (or keep from getting worse) I'll leave the exploring to the explorers. I don't take alternative medication any more than I take alternative planes. And when I fly, I do not want to explore different kinds of planes. What I want is a plane I think will get me where I want to go efficiently and safely. I leave exploration of planes to test pilots who get paid for testing planes. What alternative medicine means is medicine that is untested. I think I will leave untested medication to you, and to your son. And untested planes too, if you feel like riding on them.

That might be a bad analogy, and it might be narrow-minded.

It might. But is it? You think I am narrow-minded if I don't want to fly on an untested plane?

People make their own choices. But if you like where the plane is headed, by all means fly it. If not, then maybe a change in direction should be contemplated. People can get so caught up in science they forget about looking around and observing what is plain, old healthy.

Going to a physician is like trying to get better (or keep from getting worse) I'll leave the exploring to the explorers. I don't take alternative medication any more than I take alternative planes. And when I fly, I do not want to explore different kinds of planes. What I want is a plane I think will get me where I want to go efficiently and safely. I leave exploration of planes to test pilots who get paid for testing planes. What alternative medicine means is medicine that is untested. I think I will leave untested medication to you, and to your son. And untested planes too, if you feel like riding on them.

Hi,

The paradigm I use is very simple and straight forward. Blood is to the body like oil is to a car. It nourishes and cleans (actually all fluids do this). So it has to be flowing throughout the body. Obstructions can occur because of poor diet (fats will obstruct), physical injury, inhaled contaminants, etc. Or there may not be sufficient flow because of lack of movement or too much stress.

In any case, just like a flowing pond will keep clean (a stagnant pond will accumulate junk and get sick), so will a smooth flowing body. For example, viruses and bacteria that might grow unchecked in an unhealthy body, can be naturally cleaned out by proper flowing blood, in the same way running water cleans a pond or cleans a pipe.

Acupuncture facilitates this flow as do herbs when administered according to the problem. But it is not exact, and one has to experiment and explore to begin to understand the process. It is funny. The human body is designed to be self-preserving, but the mind messes things up. What a strange thing?

Rich

You see, you always test and explore things one way or the other. if you dont test then, you test the people who tested and guarantee its safe. So, any way or the other, going to the physician is exploratory, yes.

Well, I was really refering to the more radical ones like swinging cristals over people to "fix energies" and etc. Things like sticking needles and drinking things will obviously have some effect, since they are actually interfering with the body in some way =)

Ah, so if a test pilot shows you a huge fuel depot with wheels and tiny wings and says thats the plane you will be travelling in, and he says that the method of take-off is throwing the plane off a cliff because its too heavy to take flight on its own, will you take the ride? =)

Whenever one of my friends gets ill and feels it necessary to see a physician, I suggest to them that they visit two or three. It is a real eye opener to hear all of the different diagnoses, prognoses, and suggested treatments. It is all over the place. Every physician is totally different.

It seems that crystals definitely have effects on certain people. It is not part of my world of exploration, though I did look at it for a while. I invite people to explore everything that they are drawn to. Some people find herbs interesting, while others find fragrances. Some find the effect of different colors of light most appealing to explore. Some enjoy exploring the effects of music.

Whatever did I write that would give you such a bizarre belief?

It seems that crystals definitely have effects on certain people. It is not part of my world of exploration, though I did look at it for a while. I invite people to explore everything that they are drawn to. Some people find herbs interesting, while others find fragrances. Some find the effect of different colors of light most appealing to explore. Some enjoy exploring the effects of music. They all have their value. For me, what I have described works best.

But I think some of those work mostly (or maybe only) because people believe they will. Aka: not doing nothing, just believing you will get cured because you want to, would have the same effect. Maybe the colors/smells make it a bit easier to focus or alter the way the brain is functioning at the moment, but that sounds like trying to move a rock by reconstructing it in a car =) Aka: Complicating things.

Hi manored.

Could be. The body just heals itself if left alone. On the other hand, for me, and my friends/students there are things that seem to work very well, such as massage, cupping, gua sha, which removes blood stagnation. No different than using a plunger on a stopped pipe.

Sounds and aroma all have effects on people. I know that lavender has a very calming feeling for me. Crystals? Tough to say. These are very subtle energies.

What I have learned over my life is that everyone has a different level of sensitivity to things. Some people are like steel pipes. Totally insensitive to any kinds of vibrational movements. Some are very sensitive like a willow in the wind. Some are born with sensitivity (a musician with a great ear), some learn it in this life time. Some never learn.

I can feel stagnation in a person's body, simply because I have trained myself. I can feel it in my own body. It is just training like everything else. Like learning to hit a golf ball. In the old days, most physicians could do this. Now it is something that many people know how to do, but it no longer known among people trained in medical schools.

Rich