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So what makes me bad?

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I always wondered a society created by norms and ethics of majority is a society heading towards unity of characters, characters that by time wel only know one way of been normal, the ways of others.

So what makes me a bad person? Is it my action? What if my action does not casue harm to others, like smoking illegal substance in my own house. By law that makes me a bad person. But what if I give to the poor generously? Does that cancel out the bad lable tag on me by the law?

I could never get my head around this issues?
=-=
For our Forums vegiterains, if I tell you to eat this chicken and if you dont i well kill another one, does that make u a bad person? Or goes against the fundametal of ur principals?

@ltdaleadergt,

There are no bad people IMHO. What's bad is when we judge one another. I think evil and bad are something only we create and bring forth because without humans, there would be no evil and there would be no bad.

So to say one is bad for using controlled substances, I'd be willing to guess that most of those good folks that wrote the bible were doing some sort of drugs at the time to see all these crazy things and come up with some of these stories. Drugs have also been used by good folks to disconnect from their physical being and connect with the higher self or divine inspiration.

In America, almost everyone has smoked illegal substances. So are we all bad? Wait, I am talking about Americans aren't I?... LOL.

Most people place labels on others. Even the best of humans use 'bad' judgment and label others. That doesn't make them right, that just makes them ignorant because unless we can completely understand another and we've walked a mile in their shoes, we should not call anyone bad. Besides, there's no bad and no evil other than what we as humans have brought upon this earth.

@ltdaleadergt,

<daleader>;81719 wrote:

I could never get my head around this issues?

Neither can I, so I dropped the general notion and figure people are more complex than good or bad.

However, there are times that I will see someone do something and think that what that person is doing is unhealthy for himself/herself or for me or something like that. Or that this person shouldn't steal my money, which he may be doing to feed his family. So, I will think it terms of good or bad. Though I realize it is much more complex than that. Such is the inconsistencies in life.

Rich

@ltdaleadergt,

I was told by one of my good mate that I am a bad person and I bring shame to my family. My crime, doubting about my religion. I told him I am not longer muslim........and the odd thing was he does all the unislamic things, but the fact that he still think he is a good muslim makes him a better person in his head than me! So that is what he thinks.....

@ltdaleadergt,

<daleader>;81909 wrote:

I was told by one of my good mate that I am a bad person and I bring shame to my family. My crime, doubting about my religion. I told him I am not longer muslim........and the odd thing was he does all the unislamic things, but the fact that he still think he is a good muslim makes him a better person in his head than me! So that is what he thinks.....

Hi there,

Life can be so strange at times. One of my favorite quotes is:

The highest, as the lowest, form of criticism is a mode of autobiography. [From the preface to Picture of Dorian Gray, by Oscar Wilde]

So I have learned (and it is really spooky) that when someone is criticizing someone else, it is actually the Self giving advice to the Self. Very, very spooky, but what a phenomenon to behold?

So when I read your post, I thought ... now isn't that fascinating? It works again. Smile

Rich

@ltdaleadergt,

The answer of "what makes me bad" is totally dependant to who you are asking it too =)
To me, hindering humanity is bad, to nazis, jews are bad, to hungry thieves, the police is bad, etc.

<daleader>;81909 wrote:

I was told by one of my good mate that I am a bad person and I bring shame to my family. My crime, doubting about my religion. I told him I am not longer muslim........and the odd thing was he does all the unislamic things, but the fact that he still think he is a good muslim makes him a better person in his head than me! So that is what he thinks.....

Religions are like that, as they claim to be the way to salvation and moral righteousness, people who follow then will naturally believe thenselves to be above those who do not follow it. Off course it depends of how strictly they follow these religions.

As your friend is muslim, and to muslims not being a muslim is bad, you are, indeed, a bad person in his eyes.

And people oftenly dont realize they are doing things that contradict their moral beliefs, thats quite common =)

@ltdaleadergt,

<daleader>;81909 wrote:

I was told by one of my good mate that I am a bad person and I bring shame to my family. My crime, doubting about my religion. I told him I am not longer muslim........and the odd thing was he does all the unislamic things, but the fact that he still think he is a good muslim makes him a better person in his head than me! So that is what he thinks.....

if he is really 'a good mate' then he is only sincerely worried about your fate and destiny as he believes it will unfold for you if you have left islam. and he is probably weighing his unislamic acts like he was taught, that if you commit shirk you will not be forgiven, but all the other things you have a chance for salvation.

the qur'an tells you to read and ponder it, to study it, etc...not just to take it for granted and believe it because you were brought up as a muslim. ultimately you may come to a higher understanding and firmer conviction than your 'good mate' because of your doubts.

@salima,

salima;81966 wrote:

if he is really 'a good mate' then he is only sincerely worried about your fate and destiny as he believes it will unfold for you if you have left islam. and he is probably weighing his unislamic acts like he was taught, that if you commit shirk you will not be forgiven, but all the other things you have a chance for salvation.

the qur'an tells you to read and ponder it, to study it, etc...not just to take it for granted and believe it because you were brought up as a muslim. ultimately you may come to a higher understanding and firmer conviction than your 'good mate' because of your doubts.

what if I said I had issues with its content? neither god nor anyone else has the right to judge as bad or god as they did not wanted to follow their way of life, not that they didnt want to for lack of knowledge but because they could not live a happy life living as one. Just like I do not like drinking alcohol, I do not like living a muslim life as I do not believe in their codes of conduct.

@ltdaleadergt,

<daleader>;81991 wrote:

what if I said I had issues with its content? neither god nor anyone else has the right to judge as bad or god as they did not wanted to follow their way of life, not that they didnt want to for lack of knowledge but because they could not live a happy life living as one. Just like I do not like drinking alcohol, I do not like living a muslim life as I do not believe in their codes of conduct.

are you an arabic speaking person? if not, you must depend on translations, of which there are several. and various commentaries add a great deal to the understanding as far as the historical context as well as the level of possible meanings.

from where i am living, the muslims here have a good code of conduct but they have added various cultural interpretations that are really not included. for the most part, i am quite happy living as a muslim and among muslims.

nowhere do i find it said that allah will judge you to 'be' bad, but that you will suffer consequences for your actions whether they are good or bad. it is mentioned that some people wander from the path, that some follow their own lusts, that some follow false gods and idols, but these are mistakes as i see it.

you dont sound bad to me-but you sound lost.

@salima,

Mazel tov! You have lost your religion; welcome to the club. The question now becomes: if you no longer believe in Islam, what do you believe? We humans are believing machines; trying to live without belief is like trying to drive a car without gas. If you're determined to go your own way, the best advice I have for you is do not lose your nerve. Reality is not always what we wish it to be and maybe the great magic trick of the free spirit is to stop wishing for it to be other than it is. Give the Tao te Ching a look.

@ltdaleadergt,

<daleader>;81719 wrote:

I always wondered a society created by norms and ethics of majority is a society heading towards unity of characters, characters that by time wel only know one way of been normal, the ways of others.

So what makes me a bad person? Is it my action? What if my action does not casue harm to others, like smoking illegal substance in my own house. By law that makes me a bad person. But what if I give to the poor generously? Does that cancel out the bad lable tag on me by the law?

I could never get my head around this issues?
=-=
For our Forums vegiterains, if I tell you to eat this chicken and if you dont i well kill another one, does that make u a bad person? Or goes against the fundametal of ur principals?

I guess that if you rape, torture, and kill a child, that would not be very nice. What do you think?

@kennethamy,

kennethamy;82079 wrote:

I guess that if you rape, torture, and kill a child, that would not be very nice. What do you think?

Thats something held as bad in ever code of conduct I ever heard about, but it doesnt means one couldnt see it as a good thing. some ancient cultures sacrified children for the gods, so I dont think it would be impossible for one of then to have developed into including rape and torture in the sacrifice, but as far as I know that never really happened.

@manored,

Good and evil are simply matters of culture. A man alone in the wilderness will judge good and evil according to his tastes. Add another to the fold and the dynamic changes. Either they will try to destroy each other, or find an accomodating morality. With every additional member of society, with every additional thought or philosophy, the dynamic will change. It is nobler and more honest to simply state the facts as thus: "This man offends me, i will either change his behavior, or I will destroy him".

Some quotes pertaining to the discussion:

"Morality is herd-instinct in the individual." - Nietzsche

"There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so." - Shakespeare

"Morality is the custom of one's country and the current feeling of one's peers. Cannibalism is moral in a cannibal country." - Samuel Butler

@ltdaleadergt,

I think the most useful criteria are Buddhist. Skilled action creates happiness for oneself and others and arises from wisdom, compassion and non-clinging. Unskilled suffering creates unhappiness for oneself and others, and arises from greed, hatred and delusion. It sounds very simplistic when stated baldly but it is quite a challenge to put it into practise.

@jeeprs,

jeeprs;82477 wrote:

I think the most useful criteria are Buddhist. Skilled action creates happiness for oneself and others and arises from wisdom, compassion and non-clinging. Unskilled suffering creates unhappiness for oneself and others, and arises from greed, hatred and delusion. It sounds very simplistic when stated baldly but it is quite a challenge to put it into practise.

I dont trust Buddhism because it seeks peace and the end of all conflict and want, while I find the opposite end (conflict, chaos, want) much more interesting =)

@manored,

manored;82553 wrote:

I dont trust Buddhism because it seeks peace and the end of all conflict and want, while I find the opposite end (conflict, chaos, want) much more interesting =)

I agree. I think the longing to escape one aspect of the universe and of ourselves can be very frustrating. So I accept all - the peace and the conflict as a natural cycle of learning, exploring, and creating.

Rich

@manored,

manored;82107 wrote:

Thats something held as bad in ever code of conduct I ever heard about, but it doesnt means one couldnt see it as a good thing. some ancient cultures sacrified children for the gods, so I dont think it would be impossible for one of then to have developed into including rape and torture in the sacrifice, but as far as I know that never really happened.

If in some culture, horrible actions are practiced, they may "see it as a good thing". But, why would that mean it was not a horrible thing anyway. Many Nazis saw murder as a good thing. Why would anyone think that meant that murder was a good thing?

---------- Post added 08-11-2009 at 02:58 PM ----------

richrf;82572 wrote:

I agree. I think the longing to escape one aspect of the universe and of ourselves can be very frustrating. So I accept all - the peace and the conflict as a natural cycle of learning, exploring, and creating.

Rich

So, if a have developed a pain in my leg, trying to alleviate it may be very frustrating. So what I should do (according to you) is to accept it "as a natural cycle of learning, exploring, and creating" and not visit a physician?

@kennethamy,

kennethamy;82580 wrote:

If in some culture, horrible actions are practiced, they may "see it as a good thing". But, why would that mean it was not a horrible thing anyway. Many Nazis saw murder as a good thing. Why would anyone think that meant that murder was a good thing?

---------- Post added 08-11-2009 at 02:58 PM ----------

So, if a have developed a pain in my leg, trying to alleviate it may be very frustrating. So what I should do (according to you) is to accept it "as a natural cycle of learning, exploring, and creating" and not visit a physician?

Whenever Gutei Osho was asked about Zen, he simply raised a finger. Once a visitor asked Gutei's boy attendant, "What does your master teach?" The boy too raised his finger. Hearing of this, Gutei cut off the boy's finger with a knife. The boy, screaming with pain, began to run away. Gutei called to him, and when he turned around, Gutei raised his finger. The boy suddenly became enlightened.

@TheSingingSword,

TheSingingSword;82589 wrote:

Whenever Gutei Osho was asked about Zen, he simply raised a finger. Once a visitor asked Gutei's boy attendant, "What does your master teach?" The boy too raised his finger. Hearing of this, Gutei cut off the boy's finger with a knife. The boy, screaming with pain, began to run away. Gutei called to him, and when he turned around, Gutei raised his finger. The boy suddenly became enlightened.

I hope he poked Gutei in the eye and blinded him, so that he could also become enlightened. You must be kidding!

@kennethamy,

kennethamy;82580 wrote:

So, if a have developed a pain in my leg, trying to alleviate it may be very frustrating. So what I should do (according to you) is to accept it "as a natural cycle of learning, exploring, and creating" and not visit a physician?

When I have a pain in my leg, I understand that it is caused by some blood/energy stagnation which is causing the muscle (or whatever) to press hard against the nerves. So observation is first.

Then there is what to do about it. I try various things including massage, heat, guasha, cupping, acupuncture, herbs, dietary changes, stretching, etc.

When the pain goes away, I experience joy.

And that is the cycle of exploration, learning, and creating. Pain -> Joy.

Rich

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