What separates humans from apes?

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Reply Mon 4 May, 2009 03:48 pm
. What really separates us humans from our cousins the apes?


Here are a few attributes I think we can bounce off with


The smartest ape the chimp is much smarter than the least intelligent human, there is an overlap of intellects is there not. ?


Humans, a strong spirit of inquiry or do they?.


Some of us research in the fields of astronomy, mathematics, medicine and physics is noteworthy. (But some just sit staring into space doing much less than a chimp using his stick to fish out termites)


Humans yearn for meaning in life. This is why they devote so much of their time to philosophy, theology and ethics.


Religious sentiments and practices of all humans can be traced back to their intense and endless quest for meaning. some of us on the other hand simply could not care a damn


Humans are concerned about questions not only of origin but also of destiny we know one day we will die.' Do chimps know the will die one day?


Humans, have a strong creative impulse. This is seen in their poetry, painting, dance, drama and music. (Chimps are creative but on a basic level)


Humans sometimes reason, language, inquiry, wonder, longing, religion, morality, aesthetics, creativity, imagination, aspiration and humor


Humans love


Nevertheless we are apes like it or not naked apes at that


Take our clothes off, put us naked in a cage with a tiger and we become a little puny weak animal


Can you come up with more after all we humans are created in the image and likeness of God and apes are not or are they?


One thing about ape evolution is that apes like the chimp have not evolved for millions of years and yet we humans have, why is that?
 
Theaetetus
 
Reply Mon 4 May, 2009 04:49 pm
@Alan McDougall,
Well, I do not have enough time right now to properly respond to this, because it would take many pages to make a full response, but I can start on it anyway.

We belong to the same evolutionary family as the Great Apes, but have many distinct features that our evolutionary cousins lack. To say that the smartest chimpanzee is smarter than the least intelligent human is not accurate in any way. Even toddlers display more markers of intelligence than the chimpanzee. It seems that chimps lacks some basic markers of intelligence that the young already possess. That is the capacity to learn. While chimps learn, they do so in different ways that is far similar to imitation than learning. Chimps lack culture that is grown upon through generations, and a chimpanzee can really only learn what other chimps in their group knows.

Chimpanzees have not evolved for millions of years, because they have not been stressed by their environment to change. Humans on they other hand, branched off of the Great Ape evolutionary change millions of years ago, but adapted as their environments have changed. Archaic homo sapiens moved out of Africa, but the chimp never left their native environments so they have never been forced to adapt. Thus, they have no evolved. Given time, and new environments the chimp would likely begin to evolve as well.

Anyway, that is all I am going to say for now. I am taking an advanced biological anthropology course, and human evolution is the main topic that we have studies, which includes a section on all primates, and another specifically on the great apes. It is a very interesting study that I recommend anyone with any interest in human evolution undertaking.
 
Aedes
 
Reply Mon 4 May, 2009 06:35 pm
@Alan McDougall,
Developmental biologists will say that the main cognitive difference in early childhood is our social development. Chimps and humans have similar intelligence up until age 2 or so (beyond which the human neocortex is far more developed). But humans are far more social even from infancy than chimps ever get, and this translates to language which is very rudimentary for chimps.
 
Fido
 
Reply Mon 4 May, 2009 08:36 pm
@Alan McDougall,
We have the same genes on one less chromasome... Beyond that, let me tell you the answer the Irishman gave to Charlemagne when the Franks were, for the most part, only so many unlettered barbarians... Big C asked what separates a wise man from a fool; and the wise man answer: A table... Now it may be a computer... The point being that we cannot account for the differences between people when they are so slight as to be meaningless, while the near Identical sameness between Apes and Men can barely account for our difference, which seem so much greater than less than one percent... I think some smart assed scientist should replace the unjoined genes of a male and a female chimp with the joined ones of a human, and breed them to see what happens... Maybe we could have PHD tree surgeons who could do their own operations with out a safety line......
 
Alan McDougall
 
Reply Tue 5 May, 2009 01:27 am
@Theaetetus,
Theaetetus wrote:
Well, I do not have enough time right now to properly respond to this, because it would take many pages to make a full response, but I can start on it anyway.

We belong to the same evolutionary family as the Great Apes, but have many distinct features that our evolutionary cousins lack. To say that the smartest chimpanzee is smarter than the least intelligent human is not accurate in any way. Even toddlers display more markers of intelligence than the chimpanzee. It seems that chimps lacks some basic markers of intelligence that the young already possess. That is the capacity to learn. While chimps learn, they do so in different ways that is far similar to imitation than learning. Chimps lack culture that is grown upon through generations, and a chimpanzee can really only learn what other chimps in their group knows.

Chimpanzees have not evolved for millions of years, because they have not been stressed by their environment to change. Humans on they other hand, branched off of the Great Ape evolutionary change millions of years ago, but adapted as their environments have changed. Archaic homo sapiens moved out of Africa, but the chimp never left their native environments so they have never been forced to adapt. Thus, they have no evolved. Given time, and new environments the chimp would likely begin to evolve as well.

Anyway, that is all I am going to say for now. I am taking an advanced biological anthropology course, and human evolution is the main topic that we have studies, which includes a section on all primates, and another specifically on the great apes. It is a very interesting study that I recommend anyone with any interest in human evolution undertaking.


It is interesting that you are taking a course biological anthropology, I am an interested layman but have always been fascinated with our cousins of the wild and when I look into their eyes I see another sentient intelligent soul looking back at with a potential to evolve like we have.

What I meant when I stated that the least intelligent human is less intelligent than the most highly intelligent ape like a chimp I meant that:-

Some humans are born with such a low IQ that it is almost immeasurably small and remain at the level of a six month old human baby or less for life. I hesitated to use the cruel term idiot and I only mention this term from a medical or anthropological point of view, please correct me if I am wrong!

Some highly intelligent chimps and orangutan sometimes develop the IQ of a six year old human child

The extreme short term memory of a chimp is much better than a human for instance, evolution has done this to enable to take extreme details of their surrounding at a glance and react immediately to danger. We humans have a lot of lost this ability for some reason

I am sure you know that this has been tested and is true
 
Theaetetus
 
Reply Tue 5 May, 2009 01:41 am
@Aedes,
Aedes wrote:
Developmental biologists will say that the main cognitive difference in early childhood is our social development. Chimps and humans have similar intelligence up until age 2 or so (beyond which the human neocortex is far more developed). But humans are far more social even from infancy than chimps ever get, and this translates to language which is very rudimentary for chimps.


Thanks for the addition. It has been a rough week, and I spaced getting this point across. Social development combined with culture that grows through the generations is the major difference between the two species.
 
Alan McDougall
 
Reply Tue 5 May, 2009 02:07 am
@Theaetetus,
Theaetetus wrote:
Thanks for the addition. It has been a rough week, and I spaced getting this point across. Social development combined with culture that grows through the generations is the major difference between the two species.



The human brain I believe is twice as large as that of a chimp, evolution has catered for that very large human brain by inducing labor much earlier in pregnancy than a chimp

I have read if humans babies remained in the womb to develop as fully as a chimp baby does in its mothers womb , before giving birth, the human mother would have to endure a 14/16 months long pregnancy, instead of the 9 months

So all humans babies are really born premature before the head gets to large to pass through the birth canal

The birth canal of a human female has not kept up with the evolution of the human brain and its need for a larger capacity to become the prime species on planet earth

This is why a baby chimp appears to mature at first at a faster rate than a human child.

Am I correct?
 
xris
 
Reply Tue 5 May, 2009 05:20 am
@Alan McDougall,
How do you evaluate from just a human perspective? Will they destroy or have they the capacity to destroy the world.We are an effective parasite, with the ability to out wit our animal friends and annihilate them at will.
We consider ourselves minor gods and the animal kingdom our inferiors.Would you have the world as it could be without humans or this concrete jungle?
We are inconsiderate destructive malevolent cruel intelligent fools, they are self sufficient, non destructive, to their environment, co existent ignorant fools.
 
Fido
 
Reply Tue 5 May, 2009 05:31 am
@xris,
xris wrote:
How do you evaluate from just a human perspective? Will they destroy or have they the capacity to destroy the world.We are an effective parasite, with the ability to out wit our animal friends and annihilate them at will.
We consider ourselves minor gods and the animal kingdom our inferiors.Would you have the world as it could be without humans or this concrete jungle?
We are inconsiderate destructive malevolent cruel intelligent fools, they are self sufficient, non destructive, to their environment, co existent ignorant fools.

We cannot destroy the earth...We can destroy many species and ourselves in the process of trying...
 
xris
 
Reply Tue 5 May, 2009 05:44 am
@Fido,
Fido wrote:
We cannot destroy the earth...We can destroy many species and ourselves in the process of trying...
Destroy in those terms, we could create a wilderness.
 
Fido
 
Reply Tue 5 May, 2009 06:17 am
@xris,
xris wrote:
Destroy in those terms, we could create a wilderness.

Nature is always seeking balance, and we cannot conceive of balance...
 
Alan McDougall
 
Reply Tue 5 May, 2009 07:00 am
@xris,
xris wrote:
How do you evaluate from just a human perspective? Will they destroy or have they the capacity to destroy the world.We are an effective parasite, with the ability to out wit our animal friends and annihilate them at will.
We consider ourselves minor gods and the animal kingdom our inferiors.Would you have the world as it could be without humans or this concrete jungle?
We are inconsiderate destructive malevolent cruel intelligent fools, they are self sufficient, non destructive, to their environment, co existent ignorant fools.


If we destroy ourselves and a chimp group survives somewhere, maybe after 10 million of evolution they could evolve to become the prime alpha intelligent animals , maybe with a greater capacity for evil than us.

Remember the Planet of Apes movie?

xrix we are all those negative things you mention, but many of us love this world our fellow animals and do not have those attributes. Great altruism like Mother Teresa is an example (not speaking about Catholic Church)

The word catholic, is a misnomer in the contents of the Catholic Church, becuase it simple is not catholic. Catholic means universal or all embracing and no such organisation or church exists on earth
 
xris
 
Reply Tue 5 May, 2009 08:14 am
@Alan McDougall,
Alan McDougall wrote:
If we destroy ourselves and a chimp group survives somewhere, maybe after 10 million of evolution they could evolve to become the prime alpha intelligent animals , maybe with a greater capacity for evil than us.

Remember the Planet of Apes movie?

xrix we are all those negative things you mention, but many of us love this world our fellow animals and do not have those attributes. Great altruism like Mother Teresa is an example (not speaking about Catholic Church)

The word catholic, is a misnomer in the contents of the Catholic Church, becuase it simple is not catholic. Catholic means universal or all embracing and no such organisation or church exists on earth
as a species we are parasites destroying our host bit by bit.The apes are without sin, they still live in the garden of Eden.
 
Alan McDougall
 
Reply Tue 5 May, 2009 03:37 pm
@xris,
xris wrote:
as a species we are parasites destroying our host bit by bit.The apes are without sin, they still live in the garden of Eden.


Except xris when humans cage them , abuse them toucher them to for our benefit , put these highly intellect beings in a zoo for people to goork at

Their Eden has been taken away by humans and their flesh eaten like beasts of the field, their hands cut off to sell as ash trays (gorillas)

Animals are without sin it is only humans that have the attributes of depravity

When I look at a doggy wagging its happy tail at me my heart melts with their true love
 
Zetetic11235
 
Reply Tue 26 May, 2009 06:12 pm
@Alan McDougall,
Give me a large enough rocket and a platform to launch it from and I will remove the Earth.
 
William
 
Reply Tue 26 May, 2009 09:15 pm
@Alan McDougall,
Please would anyone show me the undeniable proof that mankind was once an ape, I would greatly appreciate it. Or any fossil record that indicates and proves anything every evolve from on species to another, not to included those we do know go through metamorphosis? I have to yet find it. All I find is evolutionary, esoteric rhetoric no one can understand. If the ape did evolve, why is that sucker still around?
Thanks,
William
 
Krumple
 
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 12:35 am
@Alan McDougall,
Quote:
Please would anyone show me the undeniable proof that mankind was once an ape, I would greatly appreciate it. Or any fossil record that indicates and proves anything every evolve from on species to another, not to included those we do know go through metamorphosis? I have to yet find it. All I find is evolutionary, esoteric rhetoric no one can understand. If the ape did evolve, why is that sucker still around?
Thanks,
You can't be serious, I doubt you have ever looked. If you had looked you would have seen or at least understood that we are not talking about the ape you see today.

The ape you see today, and us belong to a COMMON ANCESTRY. Do I have to say it again? We did not spring from the ape you see today. Humans don't have ape babies and Apes don't have human babies.

Simply the apes you see today were also successful branches off the common ancestor we share. There have been many findings of our links back into the fossil record.

Don't ignore that the process has been going on for millions of years. It wasn't something that just popped into existence one day. There wasn't an ape that popped out a human baby either. Instead it was a gradual change due to environmental changes (migration) and social issues (population densities or lack of population) As groups moved around and struggled for resources the use of tools or ingenious ways to obtain food were passed down to new generations. Those apes who didn't need to develop any skills didnt and remained locked into their animal methods of survival because well they didn't need to. But those who had to adopt certain skills to survive continued to develop their brains due to challenges.

So you can say, we have developed intelligence not because it is something great to have and evolution wanted to give us some gift. But instead it was the struggle for survival that caused the brain to develop. You can see this because it is what we excel at. When a problem strikes we try to use our intellect to solve the problem. Also this is probably why we lost much of our muscle strength. Because we relied on intelligent ways to obtain food or survival rather than pure brute force.

I shouldn't even waste any more typing on you because it is clear that you REALLY don't want to know this. It is obvious that you have closed your mind to reading anything about evolution. You have already decided that it is a load of garbage and you believe in miracles and unicorns instead.

If you want to take a big dump on science then you don't deserve to utilize the things science provides for you.
 
Zetetic11235
 
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 12:41 am
@William,
the species of ape from which human are believed to have evolved are extinct. It sounds like you don't even know the bare essentials as far as evidence:

Human evolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Read this and go from there.
 
William
 
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 01:05 pm
@Zetetic11235,
Zetetic11235;65189 wrote:
the species of ape from which human are believed to have evolved are extinct. It sounds like you don't even know the bare essentials as far as evidence:

Human evolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Read this and go from there.


I appreciate your effort, but the site you referred me to is exactly what I am talking about. If it is indeed fact, it IMO, doesn't have to be that complicated. Like the fine print on the back of a legal document. "If you can dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull@#$&. And what does it matter. What are we trying to prove; defend man's animalistic behavior?
I will admit man will act like an ape, loon, ass, koo-koo bird, snake or great white shark; that does not mean it is genetic. Oh, and I see by your avatar you haven't finish evolving. Ha. Just kidding. Smile

Thanks,
William
 
Krumple
 
Reply Wed 27 May, 2009 01:41 pm
@Alan McDougall,
Quote:
I appreciate your effort, but the site you referred me to is exactly what I am talking about. If it is indeed fact, it IMO, doesn't have to be that complicated. Like the fine print on the back of a legal document. "If you can dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull@#$&. And what does it matter. What are we trying to prove; defend man's animalistic behavior?


Classic, pure nonsensical argument, I love it and it never amazes me to hear it. You know the theory of evolution is easier to understand than higher level math like differential equations. So if you can't understand the way it works then you are hopeless, and it's not because you think it's all made up. The theory is not just blindly accepted, nothing in science is every just accepted to be true. It must undergo testing, and further testing and it doesn't try to keep it hidden and use some lame excuse like, "Well it can't be tested so just accept it as fact." No true scientist would ever make that statement.

One thing that is clear here, is that you obviously reject it not because the evidence seems unclear to you, but instead it conflicts with your religious belief. You believe there is a god and work backwards, and what ever gets in the way, you out right reject regardless of how much evidence there is to the contrary.

The only person who is acting like an animal and needs to defend their behavior, is you for trying to roll us back into the bronze age. When are we going to emancipate ourselves from the bigotry and cruelty of these ancient myths and transcend the ignorance?
 
 

 
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