Forgiveness

Re: Forgiveness

max wrote:

I think that if more people who use this site were to learn to forgive then the World would be a better place and we could all start to live in harmony and peace.

Forgivness can only be given if it is requested. If you're a Christian, then you believe that even God doesn't forgive unless a confession is made. (1 John 1:9)

Family leaders have never asked forgiveness for the crimes they have committed. Ricky's mother has never expressed remorse over what she did and allowed to be done to him.

Why do you insist we should forgive them when, according to your doctrine, God won't even forgive them until they admit to their wrongdoing?

Re: Forgiveness

max wrote:

I think that if more people who use this site were to learn to forgive then the World would be a better place and we could all start to live in harmony and peace.

Harmony and peace are more likely to be had when justice is served, rather than denied.

Yes you are right with respect to Justice and I would agree that due process must take place if cases are brought to a criminal and/or civil court of law.
Nevertheless we have to learn forgivness.
This is fundemental to the teachings of Jesus and christianity.

Max

Max,

Most former members understand that forgiveness is an integral part of Christianity. However, granting forgiveness is by no means a "one way street." Owning up to one's sins and making things right to the best of one's ability are primary to receiving that forgiveness.

It's good to see your postings, since TF discourages members from visiting this and other similar sites. Perhaps the information and dialogue you find here will help you see things more clearly. I do hope that is the case.

Thanks and I could not agree with you more in that it is a two way street.
As I said I am not yet a member of TF but I do belive in forgiveness.
Even if I were a member I would still retain my independent thoughts and hence my right to use whatever media I wish to defend my beliefs.
No human being is capable of total forgiveness.
Nevetheless one should at least try.

max wrote:

Even if I were a member I would still retain my independent thoughts and hence my right to use whatever media I wish to defend my beliefs.

I wish I had that mentality when I was in TF. Unfortunately, you may not find yourself being a member for very long. In my experience, free thought is encouraged in the Family only so long as it remians within the boundaries they have set.

I did not, for example, feel I had the freedom to doubt or question leadership without being made to feel I was out of God's Will for doing so.

BTW, there's no need to feel like you have to "defend [your] beliefs" here. No one is attacking your choice of religion (unless, of course your version of religion teaches that paedophilia is not a crime).

Hello Walker
If you are saying that you lose your individuality when you become a member of TF then I must disagree with you.
I have known their "modus operandi" long enough.
If you are strong and experienced in life as I know I am then you will be able to express and defend your beliefs and that of TF in a reasoned manner using legal means.
If senior members of TF request that I not use this forum then they would have to put forward good and sound reasons as to why I should not.
However ,I am coming to the view that this forum is not a good source since it seems that most people have already made their minds up and are not even willing to listen to any of TF viewpoints.
That is one sided and very narrow minded.
Has no one gained anything positive from TF?
Sensible replies only please.
Max

max wrote:

Hello Walker
However ,I am coming to the view that this forum is not a good source since it seems that most people have already made their minds up and are not even willing to listen to any of TF viewpoints.
That is one sided and very narrow minded.
Has no one gained anything positive from TF?
Sensible replies only please.
Max

Hahaha - you gotta be joking. This really made me laugh. All the people writing on these sites have either been born in TF and lived most of their lives in it, or joined at quite a young age and were with the group from the beginning for many, many years. YOU'RE getting one side of the F. from their PR brochures and PR front, we are giving you the other side from within after years and years of living with them and growing up with them. It seems to me you are the one that is one-sided and biased and refusing to listen to any other perspectives.

I don't know quite why, but you are reminding me of JAAAYYYY. You haven't morphed into Max, have you Jay?

Young people always see things differently to adults.
This is natural and part of growing into adulthood.
I am sure there are people who have grown up or joined TF that are happy and well adjusted adults.
As to listening to other people's perspectives I am more than willing to do so and have done and continue to do so on a Global basis.
I do not know Jay and no I am not he or they.
It would seem that you are still a young person since your writing and composition shows that of an adolescent.
Anger and frustration are normal traits druring this period of ones life.
It is said that if by 21years of age you are not a revolutionary then you do not have a heart and by the same token if by 30years of age you are part of the establishment then you do not have a brain.
I do not read propoganda.
I do read the Bible which may or may not be propaganda depending on your views.
In my view it would not fall into that catergory.
I wish you luck and hope that you find true peace in your life and that one day you can forgive those that have wronged you.
This may take many years but if you can find it in your heart to do so It will help you in this life and the life therafter.

Best wishes

Max

should read "not part of the establishment" apologies it is late here in the U>K.

max wrote:

Young people always see things differently to adults.
This is natural and part of growing into adulthood.

hahahaha - I'm 55 years old, but thanks for the compliment.

Quote:

I am sure there are people who have grown up or joined TF that are happy and well adjusted adults.

Really? Show me. I've met many and although they are for the most part happy (happy to be out) and doing well for themselves in spite of the huge hurdles they must go over, they are not well adjusted. There is a lot of emotional damage, as I would hope you can imagine.

Quote:

As to listening to other people's perspectives I am more than willing to do so and have done and continue to do so on a Global basis.

Global?

Quote:

I do not know Jay and no I am not he or they.

Well, that's a relief, but maybe he cloned you - hehe. How about Postman Pat - he was from the UK.

Quote:

It would seem that you are still a young person since your writing and composition shows that of an adolescent.

Again, thanks for the compliment. I think!?

Quote:

Anger and frustration are normal traits druring this period of ones life.
It is said that if by 21years of age you are not a revolutionary then you do not have a heart and by the same token if by 30years of age you are part of the establishment then you do not have a brain.

Sigh - tired old refrain, I've heard it too many times in my ripe old age.

Quote:

I do not read propoganda.
I do read the Bible which may or may not be propaganda depending on your views.
In my view it would not fall into that catergory.

Come again? What was that category?

Quote:

I wish you luck and hope that you find true peace in your life and that one day you can forgive those that have wronged you.
This may take many years but if you can find it in your heart to do so It will help you in this life and the life therafter.

Yeah thanks, so says my therapist too. After getting my brain f___d over for nearly 19 years, every day is anyone's guess. However, I do find myself a lot more peaceful out of TF, thank you very much.

Quote:

Best wishes

Max

And you too.

max wrote:

If you are saying that you lose your individuality when you become a member of TF then I must disagree with you.

No, I didn't say that. Whether or not you lose your individuality is ultimately up to you.

Having been born and raised in the Family, I can attest to the fact that I and many of my peers were discouraged from expressing ourselves in any manner that was contrary to the accepted "norm". I challenge you to prove that The Family taught otherwise.

max wrote:

However, I am coming to the view that this forum is not a good source since it seems that most people have already made their minds up and are not even willing to listen to any of TF viewpoints.
That is one sided and very narrow minded.

I think your projecting, Mark. You know little about me and yet you've already assumed that I have my mind made up and am not willing to listen to you.

I, on the other hand, assume nothing about you. I have been willing to listen to your side and have only expressed my current opinion in return. I have learned not to come to conclusions on anything. I have learned to question everything and hold nothing sacred. I have learned that there is nothing in life that can be said with 100% certainty.

That you would assume the opposite without even knowing me is rather insulting.

That said, you have never been a member of the Family. I have. For 24 years it was all I knew. I lived and breathed it.

I think you'll agree that this gives me the advantage when it comes to knowing the modus operandi of The Family.

max wrote:

If you are strong and experienced in life as I know I am then you will be able to express and defend your beliefs and that of TF in a reasoned manner using legal means.

Alright, then I challenge you to defend legally the Family's current tax evasion policies. I challenge you to defend legally their past policies on adult/child sexual contact. I challenge you to defend morally their current unwillingness to make amends with those they have hurt.

I'd be very interested in your response.

max wrote:

Has no one gained anything positive from TF?

Sure, I have. Good can be found in any situation and under any circumstances. But when I compare my childhood to the childhood I am now able to offer to my children, it pales in comparison. I do have some fond memories of my childhood, but there are a lot of disturbing memories as well.

If we disagreed with Berg we were branded as "systemites" and Old Bottles".

He was God's mouthpiece and as such had to be obeyed!

Excersizing individuality was seen as pride and rebellion!

Forgiveness
I do not have the time to answer all of the questions and since many do not merit comment I shall not do so.
However, Walker I am not a lawyer but if I had a legal case agaisnt someone or sombody I can assure you that I would pursue it.
I have done so on many occasions and although I have not always been the victor I have at least tried.
Get together with your friends and former TF members and do something positive and proactive.
It is the only way forward and although it may be hard to bring a case to bear the owness is on you to do so not me since I have no alleagations to bring against the TF.
Good luck and go for it and let me know how you go on.

Acheick
Your views do not merit further comment since you keep repeating yourself.
If you are 55 years of age then grow up and stop acting like a child.
A full time job may help?

Best regards

Max

Re: Forgiveness

Day wrote:

max wrote:
I think that if more people who use this site were to learn to forgive then the World would be a better place and we could all start to live in harmony and peace.

Harmony and peace are more likely to be had when justice is served, rather than denied.

Then as I keep saying get organised and do something about it thru the courts of law.
If you have valid legal cases then you will obtain the justice that is rightly yours.
Relying on accusations be they true or not will get no one anywhere.
Do something positive and stop writing about the same old topics it's boring and futile.

Forgiveness & Atrocities
I have met many holocaust survivors most of whom were children at the time of their incarceration into concentration camps.
The horrors and abuse that they suffered one can only begin to imagine.
They have gone on to lead full and positive lives and in many cases achieved greatness in their chosen professions and fields.
I think certain former members of TF and this forum should take a leaf out of their book and get on with their lives as they have done.
In many cases they have forgiven their tormentors not forgoten but forgiven.
It is individauls like these that we can and should all learn from.

max wrote:

Acheick
Your views do not merit further comment since you keep repeating yourself.
If you are 55 years of age then grow up and stop acting like a child.
A full time job may help?

Best regards

Max

Please don't tell me to grow up and how to act, thank you very much. I will live my life as I see fit. I lived 19 years under oppressers telling me what kind of demeanor I must have. And you have no idea about my life and what kind of job I have. How presumptuous and pompous of you. You're irritated because I have an irreverant demeanor, so what? I'm American, you're British. I have no need for your "stiff upper lip."

How chicken of you to say you cannot comment on my views because of repitition? Sounds more to me like you are stuck in a corner and using any excuse to weasel out of answering the hard questions.

I still think you are postman pat. You said you were leaving and not participating on this "negative" forum and then never skipped a beat in answering everyone. Makes me wonder if you ever intended to leave. Where's your full-time job and why are you saying one thing and doing another? Just curious.

I am on vacation it has been a National Holiday here.
I would suggest that you get yourself a full time job.
There must be employment in Texas.
The Oil industry is or was significant.
Haliburton are looking for various employees.
You appear confused as to the English "modus operandi"
However,I can no longer waste my time in answering your child like questions.
Good luck in the job market.
Have a nice day

Best Regards
Max

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Forgiveness

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