Do you support the Family?

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n00b
 
Reply Sat 30 Sep, 2006 12:02 am
The Family is not Chibi-T wrote:
From what I've heard and read, it seems to be sexually based and derived. That is essentially harming people. If it's driving so many people to die, then why should it excist?

I don't think it should have the right to excist with it's current priciples.


I hope I understand what you mean because I'm a bit confused.


It drove no one to their deaths.
There have been no suicides in their group.
 
n00b
 
Reply Sat 30 Sep, 2006 12:06 am
evanman wrote:
Quote:
As for David Berg preaching that he is a Prophet from God I find this very disturbing.


David Berg didn't just claim to be any old prophet of God. he actually claimed to be the David spoken about in Ezekiel Chp 34. His claim was that he was the greatest of all the prophets, the godliest and most Christlike person on the planet.


Did he really? Can you prove it?
I'm very confused.
 
WalkerJ 1
 
Reply Sat 30 Sep, 2006 12:30 am
n00b wrote:
It drove no one to their deaths.
There have been no suicides in their group.

Actually, there have been suicides and attempted suicides by members. I know of at least two such cases. Statisically speaking, it's practically a given.

However, regardless of if the person who committed suicide was a current member or not, the thing to keep in mind is that by the time a Family member is contemplating suicide to escape the emotional and psychological pain, they've already figured out that The Family was part of what was causing their pain and will have already made the effort to leave.

Rick Rodriguez's case is a good example. He spoke of contemplating suicide when he was a teenager in the group (this was published in the Family's own documents). When he left, he apparently thought he could get away from it all and get on with his life. Unfortunately, the pain was still there and was too great for him to deal with.
 
n00b
 
Reply Sat 30 Sep, 2006 12:31 am
WalkerJ wrote:
n00b wrote:
It drove no one to their deaths.
There have been no suicides in their group.

Actually, there have been suicides and attempted suicides by members. I know of at least two such cases. Statisically speaking, it's practically a given.

However, regardless of if the person who committed suicide was a current member or not, the thing to keep in mind is that by the time a Family member is contemplating suicide to escape the emotional and psychological pain, they've already figured out that The Family was part of what was causing their pain and will have already made the effort to leave.

Rick Rodriguez's case is a good example. He spoke of contemplating suicide when he was a teenager in the group (this was published in the Family's own documents). When he left, he apparently thought he could get away from it all and get on with his life. Unfortunately, the pain was still there and was too great for him to deal with.


Oh.
Well that's alot to digest.
But...did he explain exactly why he was so suicidal?
 
Thorwald 1
 
Reply Sat 30 Sep, 2006 12:36 am
n00b wrote:
But...did he explain exactly why he was so suicidal?


I don't know, maybe this Story of Davidito had something to do with it?
 
n00b
 
Reply Sat 30 Sep, 2006 12:38 am
Thorwald wrote:
n00b wrote:
But...did he explain exactly why he was so suicidal?


I don't know, maybe this Story of Davidito had something to do with it?


What's that?
I don't want to read it if I don't have to.
 
WalkerJ 1
 
Reply Sat 30 Sep, 2006 12:52 am
n00b wrote:
evanman wrote:
David Berg didn't just claim to be any old prophet of God. he actually claimed to be the David spoken about in Ezekiel Chp 34.


Did he really? Can you prove it?
I'm very confused.


Here are a few quotes from "THE DAVID PROPHECIES! (#1642) 9/83" (http://www.exfamily.org/pubs/ml/b5/ml1642.shtml)

"3. IN SOME OF THE PROPHETIC VERSES ABOUT DAVID HE COULD HAVE BEEN SPEAKING OF THE OLD KING DAVID, but of course they're just as applicable to a latter day King David as well. (Maria: Just like we rightly take the Scriptures that were written for their comfort & encouragement also for our comfort & encouragement.) Exactly! And just as Scriptures which were spoken to people in ancient times were also spoken to include us today. That should be easy enough to understand, that a prophecy could fit more than one person.

4. BUT I REALLY THINK HE MUST HAVE HAD ME IN MIND IN A LOT OF THESE, & I think in many of them He was specifically speaking of me, because they couldn't possibly have been applied to old King David & neither could they be applied to Jesus, which is the way the church tries to interpret them all."

"8. I CERTAINLY FELT I WAS CERTAINLY ANOINTED OF THE LORD, CONFIRMED BY THE MOUTH OF THREE WITNESSES, when I received that same prophecy from three prophets in three different cities who didn't even know my name or that they were praying for a man who actually had the name David! Think of that! I mean, that was a marvellous thing to me. And at the time of course I never really realised the significance of it, except that I felt the Lord was being very encouraging by calling me by name & giving me a prophecy right out of the Bible which I took to be applied at the time directly to me, not realising that it was an actual prophecy about me personally, originally."

"15. AND YOU KNOW IT'S FUNNY THAT ALTHOUGH MEN OF GOD IN RECENT TIMES HAVE CLAIMED TO BE EVERYBODY FROM ELIJAH TO JOHN THE BAPTIST REINCARNATED, AS FAR AS I KNOW NONE OF THEM HAVE EVER CLAIMED TO BE DAVID NOR MOSES! HOW COME? WHY NOT? Why does no one else ever claim to be this mysterious David? Praise the Lord! Hallelujah! Thank You Jesus! Because He reserved that for us! Just think of that! He reserved that name & its fulfilment for us. Now that is just absolutely amazing! Nobody ever claimed that before, & apparently the church did their very best to make sure nobody ever did by insisting that was Jesus, when most of those prophecies don't fit Jesus at all! "

"17. MOSES & DAVID WERE THE ONLY MEN OF GOD IN HISTORY WHO WERE BOTH PROPHET, PRIEST & KING--all three to their people, & that's exactly what the Lord called me, by both of their names, Moses David! How about that? Isn't that something? Only three of us in History were a prophet & a priest & a king to our people!"
 
WalkerJ 1
 
Reply Sat 30 Sep, 2006 12:58 am
n00b wrote:
Thorwald wrote:
I don't know, maybe this Story of Davidito had something to do with it?


What's that?
I don't want to read it if I don't have to.

If you're not into reading, you can watch the video where Rick says in his own words why he felt suicidal.
 
n00b
 
Reply Sat 30 Sep, 2006 12:58 am
WalkerJ wrote:
n00b wrote:
evanman wrote:
David Berg didn't just claim to be any old prophet of God. he actually claimed to be the David spoken about in Ezekiel Chp 34.


Did he really? Can you prove it?
I'm very confused.


Here are a few quotes from "THE DAVID PROPHECIES! (#1642) 9/83" (http://www.exfamily.org/pubs/ml/b5/ml1642.shtml)

"3. IN SOME OF THE PROPHETIC VERSES ABOUT DAVID HE COULD HAVE BEEN SPEAKING OF THE OLD KING DAVID, but of course they're just as applicable to a latter day King David as well. (Maria: Just like we rightly take the Scriptures that were written for their comfort & encouragement also for our comfort & encouragement.) Exactly! And just as Scriptures which were spoken to people in ancient times were also spoken to include us today. That should be easy enough to understand, that a prophecy could fit more than one person.

4. BUT I REALLY THINK HE MUST HAVE HAD ME IN MIND IN A LOT OF THESE, & I think in many of them He was specifically speaking of me, because they couldn't possibly have been applied to old King David & neither could they be applied to Jesus, which is the way the church tries to interpret them all."

"8. I CERTAINLY FELT I WAS CERTAINLY ANOINTED OF THE LORD, CONFIRMED BY THE MOUTH OF THREE WITNESSES, when I received that same prophecy from three prophets in three different cities who didn't even know my name or that they were praying for a man who actually had the name David! Think of that! I mean, that was a marvellous thing to me. And at the time of course I never really realised the significance of it, except that I felt the Lord was being very encouraging by calling me by name & giving me a prophecy right out of the Bible which I took to be applied at the time directly to me, not realising that it was an actual prophecy about me personally, originally."

"15. AND YOU KNOW IT'S FUNNY THAT ALTHOUGH MEN OF GOD IN RECENT TIMES HAVE CLAIMED TO BE EVERYBODY FROM ELIJAH TO JOHN THE BAPTIST REINCARNATED, AS FAR AS I KNOW NONE OF THEM HAVE EVER CLAIMED TO BE DAVID NOR MOSES! HOW COME? WHY NOT? Why does no one else ever claim to be this mysterious David? Praise the Lord! Hallelujah! Thank You Jesus! Because He reserved that for us! Just think of that! He reserved that name & its fulfilment for us. Now that is just absolutely amazing! Nobody ever claimed that before, & apparently the church did their very best to make sure nobody ever did by insisting that was Jesus, when most of those prophecies don't fit Jesus at all! "

"17. MOSES & DAVID WERE THE ONLY MEN OF GOD IN HISTORY WHO WERE BOTH PROPHET, PRIEST & KING--all three to their people, & that's exactly what the Lord called me, by both of their names, Moses David! How about that? Isn't that something? Only three of us in History were a prophet & a priest & a king to our people!"


Interesting stuff.
Sounds like bullshit but you've got to admit, the fact that he was approached by so many ppl makes it sound pretty believable.
 
WalkerJ 1
 
Reply Sat 30 Sep, 2006 01:05 am
n00b wrote:
Interesting stuff.
Sounds like bullshit but you've got to admit, the fact that he was approached by so many ppl makes it sound pretty believable.

True, it does make it sound believable.

I only wish he would have applied that logic when people called him a pedophile.
 
n00b
 
Reply Sat 30 Sep, 2006 02:06 am
WalkerJ wrote:
n00b wrote:
Interesting stuff.
Sounds like bullshit but you've got to admit, the fact that he was approached by so many ppl makes it sound pretty believable.

True, it does make it sound believable.

I only wish he would have applied that logic when people called him a pedophile.


Damn.
Wonder if it's all true. Really can't tell can you.
 
m 2
 
Reply Sat 30 Sep, 2006 04:36 am
n00b wrote:
Sounds like bullshit but you've got to admit, the fact that he was approached by so many ppl makes it sound pretty believable.

It isn't believable in the slightest. At least not if you read it with a rational mind; instead of assuming it's true and thus interpreting it to fit your assumption, you must assume it's not true (it must prove itself) and then let yourself be convinced if the evidence indeed points to one sole conclusion.
And until it does so, you must conclude that you haven't a definite answer.



You'll find Berg taking a lot of interpretational liberty with the verses.
What he is doing is essentially taking verses and trying to make himself fit their descriptions, showing how they could apply to or be inferring him.
Yet there is never any proof that they do in fact speak of him. It's all based on assumptions.

Example:
4. BUT I REALLY THINK HE MUST HAVE HAD ME IN MIND IN A LOT OF THESE, & I think in many of them He was specifically speaking of me, because they couldn't possibly have been applied to old King David & neither could they be applied to Jesus, which is the way the church tries to interpret them all."

Here he's asking you to believe his assumption that certain prophetic passages in the Bible are talking about him. No proof is cited. Oh yes, he does offer some proof elsewhere: more assumptions; stories which we have no way of verifying their authenticity; and... uh... God talking to him.

We are asked to assume that all his interpretations of scripture are correct. Having learned from a Christian scholar outside TFI how important it is to read the Bible in context, I can safely say that many of TFI's biblical interpretations are very wrong.
We are asked to assume that God or some drunken spirit helpers speak to him. They either use old English (God - apparently he speaks old English for some reason, though recently he's become more proficient at our modern tongue...or is that Jesus?) or some unintelligible gibberish (spirit helpers) which generally translates to something about wine and sex and "kiss the sweet lips of thy Father David".
We are asked to assume that his fanciful accounts are confirmations of his position as prophet...a very serious matter according to the Bible.

In short there never is any proof. Of course to those who want to believe, they will see all this as proof. I did too once upon a time...sorta.
Now that I look at it with a different light, I can't believe anyone could be so gullible. Well hey I was born into it.

Now I haven't slept for nearly 30 hours, so I'll drop off to bed before I type more nonsense.
 
n00b
 
Reply Sun 1 Oct, 2006 08:37 am
m wrote:
n00b wrote:
Sounds like bullshit but you've got to admit, the fact that he was approached by so many ppl makes it sound pretty believable.

It isn't believable in the slightest. At least not if you read it with a rational mind; instead of assuming it's true and thus interpreting it to fit your assumption, you must assume it's not true (it must prove itself) and then let yourself be convinced if the evidence indeed points to one sole conclusion.
And until it does so, you must conclude that you haven't a definite answer.



You'll find Berg taking a lot of interpretational liberty with the verses.
What he is doing is essentially taking verses and trying to make himself fit their descriptions, showing how they could apply to or be inferring him.
Yet there is never any proof that they do in fact speak of him. It's all based on assumptions.

Example:
4. BUT I REALLY THINK HE MUST HAVE HAD ME IN MIND IN A LOT OF THESE, & I think in many of them He was specifically speaking of me, because they couldn't possibly have been applied to old King David & neither could they be applied to Jesus, which is the way the church tries to interpret them all."

Here he's asking you to believe his assumption that certain prophetic passages in the Bible are talking about him. No proof is cited. Oh yes, he does offer some proof elsewhere: more assumptions; stories which we have no way of verifying their authenticity; and... uh... God talking to him.

We are asked to assume that all his interpretations of scripture are correct. Having learned from a Christian scholar outside TFI how important it is to read the Bible in context, I can safely say that many of TFI's biblical interpretations are very wrong.
We are asked to assume that God or some drunken spirit helpers speak to him. They either use old English (God - apparently he speaks old English for some reason, though recently he's become more proficient at our modern tongue...or is that Jesus?) or some unintelligible gibberish (spirit helpers) which generally translates to something about wine and sex and "kiss the sweet lips of thy Father David".
We are asked to assume that his fanciful accounts are confirmations of his position as prophet...a very serious matter according to the Bible.

In short there never is any proof. Of course to those who want to believe, they will see all this as proof. I did too once upon a time...sorta.
Now that I look at it with a different light, I can't believe anyone could be so gullible. Well hey I was born into it.

Now I haven't slept for nearly 30 hours, so I'll drop off to bed before I type more nonsense.


Hey m, when did you leave?
 
Acheick
 
Reply Sun 1 Oct, 2006 09:34 am
n00b wrote:
evanman wrote:
Quote:
As for David Berg preaching that he is a Prophet from God I find this very disturbing.


David Berg didn't just claim to be any old prophet of God. he actually claimed to be the David spoken about in Ezekiel Chp 34. His claim was that he was the greatest of all the prophets, the godliest and most Christlike person on the planet.


Did he really? Can you prove it?
I'm very confused.


All you have to do is read his letters on the subject, he said it many times. I'm sure many of them are listed on this site and someone can direct you to them. Then you won't be confused anymore. Ooopa, I see you've already been directed. Sorry.
 
m 2
 
Reply Sun 1 Oct, 2006 09:38 am
n00b wrote:
Hey m, when did you leave?

About three years ago. How about you?
 
n00b
 
Reply Thu 5 Oct, 2006 05:46 am
m wrote:
n00b wrote:
Hey m, when did you leave?

About three years ago. How about you?

Well, here's the truth.
I'm out in spirit, not in body.
 
m 2
 
Reply Thu 5 Oct, 2006 07:16 am
Alrighty then.

Here's a question: did you ever go on netlinkup.com (when it was still working)? Because you seem familiar.
 
Laila Sujej
 
Reply Tue 23 Jan, 2007 09:17 am
I need your help...
Please, I need your help...

I'm an active member from The Family group and I need your help to understand where I am.
I'm been very surprised after reading all the messages between Leocon and the ex-missionaries...
I didn't know that the sexual abuse really hapenned and now I have a lot of questions...
Can you help me?
You can write me to the email adsress [email protected].

Best wishes, Laila.
 
Cookie 2
 
Reply Mon 12 Feb, 2007 06:23 pm
n00b wrote:
You've got to admit, the fact that he was approached by so many ppl makes it sound pretty believable.


This is soooo funny. i just read this now for the first time.

first of all, 3 people calling me Mariah Carey when i was clubbing to raise funds to go abroad in (an asian country--true story) does not make it so.

second, what would ever make someone believe someone saying these things about himself. We believed, but we were led to by our parents/teachers (like kids growing up in communist schools). but then we got smart and rejected huge statements without the proof to back up the big words.

And if some family person debates this, and says, "But look at the family's fruits--that's the proof", well, look a little closer at what happened to his kids/grandkids and what they believe/accuse him of after KNOWING him personally.
 
evanman
 
Reply Tue 13 Feb, 2007 11:00 am
Quote Berg:

"17. MOSES & DAVID WERE THE ONLY MEN OF GOD IN HISTORY WHO WERE BOTH PROPHET, PRIEST & KING--all three to their people, & that's exactly what the Lord called me, by both of their names, Moses David! How about that? Isn't that something? Only three of us in History were a prophet & a priest & a king to our people!"

Moses and David were not priests. In the days of Moses His brother Aaron was High Priest and the rest of the males of Levi were, but Moses wasn't.

King David was of Judah, he was not eligeable to be a priest!
 
 

 
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