Do you support the Family?

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exSharon
 
Reply Fri 8 Sep, 2006 08:17 pm
against
My vote would be against the Family. While I believe that adults should do as they please within the laws of the land, since when do adults in destructive cults make independent and rational decisions? At least as far as believing in spirit helpers and detractors and being terrorized if believing in that sort of magical thinking, then there is godly fondling of minors or advocating for women to be factories for producing new disciples from numerous sperm donors. Not to mention the destruction from one practice alone, that of the one wife docrine which causes many children to grow up disconnected from and not even knowing in some cases their father. Not to mention not knowing their mother either as she will likely be a mindless Zerbot if she stays in the Family and children will often be taught or influenced by other adults and older peers. Look at cults that have taken the ultimate step towards self destruction under the likes of Jim Jones, Koresh, Applewhite and many others. They are far from harmless because people are not encouraged to think and act independently and to rely upon their conscience because they adopt the leader's conscience in believing that if it contradicts the cult then they are wrong or weak or bad AND there is always the very real risk that if cornered or if the leader gets some sort of endtime or special word from god, people can and do DIE. Destructive cults make me shudder because I know how it feels to be stuck in a mindwarp and feeling wrong to think about getting out of it. Whether recruited or born into it, adults are almost NEVER given the true nature of the Family or a destructive cult upon meeting them. That is why there is babes training and lengthy classtime and schedules, memorization, separation from those you are familiar with and so on.
Many of us have been out for decades but we learned the same things. To tell on others and on ourselves for wrong thinking and to never question leadership. To obey without questioning. That we are "nothing" and that God is the only good thing. And of course God speaks thru the profits. All that rot. And to think that back in the day all we thought we were doing was "getting saved" and finding security and safety and an honorable purpose in life. Who would have thought that at that time we would be getting into a destructive, I mean a HIGHLY destructive cult that would devolve into prostitution and pedophilia in the name of Jesus? I am glad I am out for a very long time and I would love to see people getting out regardless of generation. Imagine if it was illegal for kids to be homeschooled in a cult. I think it would be great. Imagine if laws were enforced that banned barely teenaged girls from being given to old farts as wives to be trained ala Warren Jeffs. The feds may have gotten him but I guarantee you many of those child brides are still bound to their arranged marriage husbands. If laws prevented cloistering children in destructive cults where they are conditioned to be homeschooled and become just that I think it would be great.
 
Piram
 
Reply Sat 9 Sep, 2006 01:05 am
I thought that was very well expressed, ex-Sharon. TF´s leaders know that in order to survive and prosper as an organization, they need power and money. Money and Power -- why deny it -- buys protection in this world. When you´ve got money and power, you´ll always have people who are willing to cover up for you -- from the very beginning, Berg´s emphasis on getting "Kings" and on moneymaking activities to support "the Lord´s work" was undoubtedly, IMO, shrewd. It´s worked quite well for TF.
 
Anonymous
 
Reply Sat 9 Sep, 2006 12:05 pm
Piram wrote:
I thought that was very well expressed, ex-Sharon. TF´s leaders know that in order to survive and prosper as an organization, they need power and money. Money and Power -- why deny it -- buys protection in this world. When you´ve got money and power, you´ll always have people who are willing to cover up for you -- from the very beginning, Berg´s emphasis on getting "Kings" and on moneymaking activities to support "the Lord´s work" was undoubtedly, IMO, shrewd. It´s worked quite well for TF.


It is only the faithful that support the winners and not backsliders!

Love

Max
 
Acheick
 
Reply Sun 10 Sep, 2006 11:53 am
Anonymous wrote:
Piram wrote:
I thought that was very well expressed, ex-Sharon. TF´s leaders know that in order to survive and prosper as an organization, they need power and money. Money and Power -- why deny it -- buys protection in this world. When you´ve got money and power, you´ll always have people who are willing to cover up for you -- from the very beginning, Berg´s emphasis on getting "Kings" and on moneymaking activities to support "the Lord´s work" was undoubtedly, IMO, shrewd. It´s worked quite well for TF.


It is only the faithful that support the winners and not backsliders!

Love

Max


Max - how do you know it isn't TF that are the backsliders and the people who left that are telling the truth? I have seen nothing yet from your weird ramblings that prove otherwise.
 
Anonymous
 
Reply Mon 11 Sep, 2006 12:33 pm
Max is an interesting sort. I've come across many of his posts on various topics. He signs them all with "Love and God Bless," yet many of his responses are dripping with blatant passive aggression and outright sarcasm. These are not qualities I would expect from someone trying to be a moral and decent person; in fact, these qualities in Max are very transparent and most insidious. I'm reading that there's really not a mature fellow there - someone perhaps with the emotional development of a 12-year-old. This is all speculation (of course), based upon the structure, tone and content of his posts and responses.
 
winter 1
 
Reply Tue 12 Sep, 2006 06:05 pm
parenting
ex-Sharon, I like most of everything you said. Though I would caution against these kind of ideas:

ex-Sharon wrote:
Imagine if it was illegal for kids to be homeschooled in a cult. I think it would be great.


That would be nice if you could just open a book and say "bad group" "good group." Without such a handy dandy refernece book, the above would be translated into, "Imagine if it was illegal for kids to be homeschooled." Well, I would not send my kids to public school unless I want them sucking c0ck at the age of 13 and doing crack soon thereafter. Public schools are one of the best breading grounds for perverts and abusers - almost any big school is. They can hide easier.

I don't think such laws are beneficial. It's up to parents to teach kids about religions and cults, so that they don't make the same mistakes our parents did. I wouldn't trust a school with that. That's just as bad as trusting TF to educate kids.

Parents have a unique opportunity to teach their children. Why? Because many times a parents behaviour is passed on to the children from many generations. If parents have learned something positive about their burdens, they in turn can make their childrens burndens lighter by making their way straight and showing their children what they learned. Of course if the parents never learn, well, that's pretty sad. I think we can see that in TF today.
 
exSharon
 
Reply Tue 12 Sep, 2006 08:19 pm
Re: parenting
winter wrote:
ex-Sharon, I like most of everything you said. Though I would caution against these kind of ideas:

ex-Sharon wrote:
Imagine if it was illegal for kids to be homeschooled in a cult. I think it would be great.


That would be nice if you could just open a book and say "bad group" "good group." Without such a handy dandy refernece book, the above would be translated into, "Imagine if it was illegal for kids to be homeschooled." Well, I would not send my kids to public school unless I want them sucking c0ck at the age of 13 and doing crack soon thereafter. Public schools are one of the best breading grounds for perverts and abusers - almost any big school is. They can hide easier.

I don't think such laws are beneficial. It's up to parents to teach kids about religions and cults, so that they don't make the same mistakes our parents did. I wouldn't trust a school with that. That's just as bad as trusting TF to educate kids.

Parents have a unique opportunity to teach their children. Why? Because many times a parents behaviour is passed on to the children from many generations. If parents have learned something positive about their burdens, they in turn can make their childrens burndens lighter by making their way straight and showing their children what they learned. Of course if the parents never learn, well, that's pretty sad. I think we can see that in TF today.


I have been watching some TV shows like "Wife Swap" where parents teach their kids at home and every single show where kids are home schooled I have been greatly concerned about those home schooled children. I am largely against home schooling PERIOD except as approved when taught by well educated parents who are overseen by a state board. The reason I believe in a state board overseeing it (or a governmental board concerned with education) is because I believe children should not be deprived from socializing with others in society at large and not be limited in education so that they are unable to choose when older to go to college or be hindered from doing so.
I am very concerned about the Family's homeschooling and am far more concerned about those children being exposed to perverts when part of TFI teaching is geared to eventual exposure as children get older to the "LJR" where they will learn to masturbate to Jesus as a weapon against evil or some sort of insanity as such. Add to that the magical thinking that is reinforced in small children where they learn to call upon magical spirit helpers with cartoon names and to rebuke long lists of demons. Those adults homeschooling them in the Family are supposed to believe in this sort of stuff. So yeah, I am against homeschooling about 99.9% of the time and definitely against it where the Family is concerned.
My kids went to public schools for most of their lives and they are well educated with good jobs that are stimulating and challenging for them. They would not have had that opportunity had they grown up in the family because they are strong willed and would likely have been dubbed demons and treated like lepers or sent to schools where they would be drilled by sadists AND be dubbed as demons. Where in the world did you get the idea that public schools teach the things you say they do? I do believe in private schools but also only if they have to meet educational standards set by qualified professionals.
Criminal behavior can occur anywhere, in public schools, private schools or home schools. But there are more safeguards in public schools, imo.
 
Piram
 
Reply Tue 12 Sep, 2006 10:11 pm
Re: parenting
ex-Sharon wrote:


Where in the world did you get the idea that public schools teach the things you say they do? I do believe in private schools but also only if they have to meet educational standards set by qualified professionals.
Criminal behavior can occur anywhere, in public schools, private schools or home schools. But there are more safeguards in public schools, imo.


I am of the opinion that children need to be contact with other children of different backgrounds. However, don´t like huge schools, and prefer that they be of a moderate size. I think a good maximum size for a class is 25, although it will depend on several factors. I think a key word here is "standards". Our children´s education needs to meet standards set, as you say, by qualified professionals, whether in public or private schools, and IMO, this involves continuous monitoring, not simply periodical testing. I´m all for parents taking an active part in their children´s education, but it seems to me that home-schooling may well tend to be "intellectually, culturally, and ideologically incestuous", if you´ll forgive the term, as it don´t mean it in the usual sense, obviously. We all want to protect our children, but there is such a thing as sheltering them excessively, too, which can also have very adverse effects on their development. This is not a blanket condemnation of all home schooling, but simply a statement of my opinion.
 
winter 1
 
Reply Wed 13 Sep, 2006 12:21 am
Re: parenting
ex-Sharon wrote:

I have been watching some TV shows like "Wife Swap" where parents teach their kids at home and every single show where kids are home schooled I have been greatly concerned about those home schooled children.


[sarcasm]
Ah yes, TV is a great reference point.
[/sarcasm]

ex-Sharon wrote:

Criminal behavior can occur anywhere, in public schools, private schools or home schools. But there are more safeguards in public schools, imo.


Yes, that is true. I was speaking more about the quality of education. If you are not a high quality individual, sure you'll probably pass that on to your kids if you taught them. JK, but really, I wouldn't trust just anyone teaching my kids. You see, once you've been burned, it's difficult to trust again.

Not all home schooled kids don't have friends and clubs and gangs outside on their home. That's TF style.

home schooling != confinement || sheltering

I also think that the state should oversee home schooled children. For example in Germany you are allowed to home school your children. Though, you must use one of the approved courses and take exams with the state schools.

Piram wrote:

...home-schooling may well tend to be "intellectually, culturally, and ideologically incestuous"...


That does make a lot sense - except where decent culture is involved. That's what makes families and cities and countries what they are. You need quite an objective look at yourself. If you home school your children, you have a great responsibility. If you can't handle it and you have emotional or psychological issues in your own life, then yes, public school is probably better.

There are somethings that they usually don't teach you at school. I think that is the kind of stuff that *needs* to be taught at home: etiquette, house hold chores, life skills, critical thinking, morals, sports, hobbies, and the like.

IMHO, If a parent is failing to teach their children anything at home and leaves it all the teachers, as many do in and out of TF, they are not giving them their best.

BTW, I don't know what it is like in the US.

Basically, I think I and my wife should be the judges concerning the quality of education for my children. Public school's levels are too low, IMO, and not creative enough. People who are loosers will be loosers, and I feel sorry for their children. Sometimes there's not much you can do to liberate someone from generations of weirdness. We all have our burndens. I see that from many case studies in TF.
 
Acheick
 
Reply Wed 13 Sep, 2006 12:49 am
Re: parenting
Quote:
BTW, I don't know what it is like in the US.


I have a few friends who home school their kids. There is actually quite a growing sub-culture of home-schooling parents. There is a growing discontent with the school system here, and rightly so, I might add. These families often group together and each brings their own particular expertise to the group. Often they are parents with degrees and talents so the kids end up better off then going to state run schools. Plus, the kids socialize together and go on group outings together. I don't see what they are missing out on. Also, home-schooled kids have to be tested by a qualified teacher, I believe.

Even in my spotty teaching in TF, my kids were still better off when they entered the school system in the states. I would get so many comments on how far ahead my kids were. When their teachers would hear that TV was very limited, that was often attributed as the problem of the short attention spans with the other kids in the classrooms. I think the fact that they were taught to read at an early age also made a big difference. I'm a firm believer in that. The first 5 years really is very important in a child's development. In the states, they don't even start school until after 5. As far as the schools in L.A. unified - forget it. Those kids aren't getting an education.
 
Anonymous
 
Reply Wed 13 Sep, 2006 07:43 pm
Re: parenting
winter wrote:

Basically, I think I and my wife should be the judges concerning the quality of education for my children. Public school's levels are too low, IMO, and not creative enough. People who are loosers will be loosers, and I feel sorry for their children. Sometimes there's not much you can do to liberate someone from generations of weirdness. We all have our burndens. I see that from many case studies in TF.


No offense but I hope you and your wife are not teaching English to children.
 
Indian Joe 1
 
Reply Thu 14 Sep, 2006 06:39 am
Re: parenting
winter wrote:
Well, I would not send my kids to public school unless I want them sucking c0ck at the age of 13 and doing crack soon thereafter. Public schools are one of the best breading grounds for perverts and abusers - almost any big school is. They can hide easier.


I went to public school, and I never did any of that stuff. Many of my fellow students now hold advanced degrees, or run businesses. Most have gone on to lead some kind of successful life.

We do have a family on our block who home schools their children. They are completely socially retarded, and rarely venture outside the house. Their parents seem terrified to let them leave the home and play with other kids.

I just wonder how they are expected to develop the skills they will need once they do grow up? At some point they will need to enter the workforce and communicate with the great unwashed. How does homeschooling prepare them for that?
 
Indian Joe 1
 
Reply Thu 14 Sep, 2006 07:19 am
Re: parenting
Acheick wrote:
As far as the schools in L.A. unified - forget it. Those kids aren't getting an education.


I went to a mixture of private and public schools. I spent a fair amount of time in L.A. Unified. Like with anything else, kids who are willing to work hard do fine. I just think you get a higher concentration of kids who don't care, and Teachers who don't care in a large school system. The ones who do seem to find each other.

All of my kids have had a similar mixture of private and public schools, including L.A. Unified. One daughter did very well in the magnate program. All of them ended up in public school because they had various learning disabilities that private schools didn't have the resources to address. We really didn't want to put them in public school, but we couldn't find anywhere else to turn. Of course, we live on the fringe of what is considered Los Angeles, far out in the suburbs, so the schools here differ greatly from the inner city L.A. schools, which is sad, but a fact of life, I guess.

We were out of the L.A. schools for several years until our youngest needed resource for a learning disability. I really hated to go back, but now I'm surprised at how much better it is than it was when I was a student, and my older kids were going to public schools.
 
max 1
 
Reply Thu 14 Sep, 2006 11:49 am
Re: parenting
Indian Joe wrote:
winter wrote:
Well, I would not send my kids to public school unless I want them sucking c0ck at the age of 13 and doing crack soon thereafter. Public schools are one of the best breading grounds for perverts and abusers - almost any big school is. They can hide easier.


I went to public school, and I never did any of that stuff. Many of my fellow students now hold advanced degrees, or run businesses. Most have gone on to lead some kind of successful life.

We do have a family on our block who home schools their children. They are completely socially retarded, and rarely venture outside the house. Their parents seem terrified to let them leave the home and play with other kids.

I just wonder how they are expected to develop the skills they will need once they do grow up? At some point they will need to enter the workforce and communicate with the great unwashed. How does homeschooling prepare them for that?




At last someone who speaks some sense and not with forked tongue.
It is true that homosexuality has and does take place in Public/Private Schools, especially those that are single sexed.
Home schooling is for isolationists and not effective.
With respect to perverts and abusers they are everywhere in society and not the sole preserve of Big Schools as Ms Winter would like to have it.
As for oral gratification what age would Ms Winter suggest that this should take place?
It can be fun you know!


Love & God Bless


Max
 
Piram
 
Reply Thu 14 Sep, 2006 02:37 pm
Re: parenting
max wrote:
Home schooling is for isolationists and not effective.
Max


I´ll save that quote, thank you.
 
Piram
 
Reply Thu 14 Sep, 2006 02:55 pm
Re: parenting
Acheick wrote:
Quote:
BTW, I don't know what it is like in the US.


I have a few friends who home school their kids. There is actually quite a growing sub-culture of home-schooling parents. There is a growing discontent with the school system here, and rightly so, I might add. These families often group together and each brings their own particular expertise to the group. Often they are parents with degrees and talents so the kids end up better off then going to state run schools. Plus, the kids socialize together and go on group outings together. I don't see what they are missing out on. Also, home-schooled kids have to be tested by a qualified teacher, I believe.

Even in my spotty teaching in TF, my kids were still better off when they entered the school system in the states. I would get so many comments on how far ahead my kids were. When their teachers would hear that TV was very limited, that was often attributed as the problem of the short attention spans with the other kids in the classrooms. I think the fact that they were taught to read at an early age also made a big difference. I'm a firm believer in that. The first 5 years really is very important in a child's development. In the states, they don't even start school until after 5. As far as the schools in L.A. unified - forget it. Those kids aren't getting an education.


Not having lived in the States for many years, if it is as bad as you describe it, I can understand why parents would want to home-school their kids. I am glad my kids were educated on the other side of the puddle.
 
evanman
 
Reply Thu 14 Sep, 2006 03:39 pm
I have met a number of families that are home schoolers, I must say that the ones I have met have lots of social interaction, play with the local kids, and a number have even gone on to university to study Sciences, or Music.

Yes those public school educated kids at Columbine really do show that the state system is not all there either!
 
max 1
 
Reply Thu 14 Sep, 2006 05:05 pm
I would have thought that a combination of both is the answer, but that is to darn obvious so pardon me for mentioning it!
You know education does not stop or start at school for most people!
Mind you judging by some of the comments here it would seem that for some it never started in the first place.


Love & God Bless
Max
 
max 1
 
Reply Thu 14 Sep, 2006 05:30 pm
Re: parenting
Piram wrote:
max wrote:
Home schooling is for isolationists and not effective.
Max


I´ll save that quote, thank you.



You can stick it where the sun doesn't shine for all I care.
Ask Gandhi if you’re not sure where that is.
Anymore photo's or are you waiting until you visit Germany!


Love & God Bless

Max
 
winter 1
 
Reply Thu 14 Sep, 2006 09:52 pm
Anonymous wrote:
winter wrote:

Basically, I think I and my wife should be the judges concerning the quality of education for my children. Public school's levels are too low, IMO, and not creative enough. People who are loosers will be loosers, and I feel sorry for their children. Sometimes there's not much you can do to liberate someone from generations of weirdness. We all have our burndens. I see that from many case studies in TF.


No offense but I hope you and your wife are not teaching English to children.


Is my grammar really that bad? Please help me do better.

AFAIK, there should be a comma before "but."

No I don't teach, but I like to learn!
 
 

 
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