Do you support the Family?

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max 1
 
Reply Tue 19 Sep, 2006 02:22 am
winter wrote:
Acheick wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
I'll have to say that I agree with both ex-Sharon and Acheick. I was about to type, but find no reason to repeat it.

My mom, not in TF anymore, home schools her children via the course I described. She also hires qualified tutors to teach them French and other subjects she is not familiar with or when she is busy. I have to say, I am very proud of my mom for holding it all together and giving them an education. I had to put myself through highschool and college. So I don't really know what it is like to have a good teacher. Though, I am thankful for what she did teach me before my parents divorced when I was six. I learned reading and writing and counting from her. I can still remember it. I miss mom.


Awww - are you still in touch with your mom? Do you get to see her sometimes? I hope so. Good luck in all you do, you sound very well adjusted (in spite of everything which is amazing) and smart.


Oops, that was me - not logged in.

I write her sometimes. I saw her a few years ago. She helped me a lot recently though. Gave me good advice. She didn't condemn TF, which naturally enabled me to veiw her advice as objective - which I think it was. She is easier on TF that I am. I guess those that suffered more in TF, are more repulsed by it. She's a tough woman. Even though she doesn't put up with childlike behaviour from me, there is still something about 'Mom' that accepts everything about me. I never felt that from my foster mother who would through fits to my dad when we initially didn't call her mommy and force us to tuck in out tshirts.

When I saw my real mom for the first time in about 10 years, I could feel that she accepted me - everything about me. She cared about me. This is something I never felt before. I guess I did feel it when I was a little child. I just can't remember. My parents divorced. It hurt so bad that I stopped feeling. I was emotionaly dead untill more recently. So it kind of amazed me when I felt love from my mom - my real mom. There's some kind of bond with Mom. It's a real warm and fuzzy feeling. I know some mom's are not nice to their children and abuse them physically and emotionaly and psychologically. I wonder what kind of bond those mothers have with their children.



Winter Quote
"Even though she doesn't put up with childlike behaviour from me"

Well that just about sums it up.
I could not have put it better myself!

Love & God Bless

Max
 
winter 1
 
Reply Tue 19 Sep, 2006 02:36 am
Acheick wrote:

I gather your mother lives far away? That has to be tough.


Yes, we are far apart. I'm not really the emotional type. So finding these deep painful emotions surfacing from the past, made me investigate. Ultimately it turned out for good. I am able to begin healing from the past. Of course contact with my mother and hearing her side and not just my father and step mother's "hush hush, we don't talk about those people" attitude was very good for me to begin healing.

I have still yet to reckon with my father and step mother. I suppose I shall have to give them a Bible class soon enough - seeing that is what TF is supposed to believe in as the foundation. It's always funny to have F members try and argue with me. I just tell them to argue with the Bible, since they are suppose to believe in it. I don't even say, "I think." I just ask them howcome such and such a verse say this? The nicest of them become angry. The most dishonest ones smile and pretend like you mean nothing to them. What friends...
 
Acheick
 
Reply Tue 19 Sep, 2006 01:24 pm
winter wrote:
Acheick wrote:

I gather your mother lives far away? That has to be tough.


Yes, we are far apart. I'm not really the emotional type. So finding these deep painful emotions surfacing from the past, made me investigate. Ultimately it turned out for good. I am able to begin healing from the past. Of course contact with my mother and hearing her side and not just my father and step mother's "hush hush, we don't talk about those people" attitude was very good for me to begin healing.

I have still yet to reckon with my father and step mother. I suppose I shall have to give them a Bible class soon enough - seeing that is what TF is supposed to believe in as the foundation. It's always funny to have F members try and argue with me. I just tell them to argue with the Bible, since they are suppose to believe in it. I don't even say, "I think." I just ask them howcome such and such a verse say this? The nicest of them become angry. The most dishonest ones smile and pretend like you mean nothing to them. What friends...


Hmmm...arguing with F. people. Rolling Eyes My second oldest son argued with his father once when he came to visit. Both were arguing from the bible - my son now old enough to be thinking and studying on his own, was very well versed in such matters. They ended up staying up all night, neither would give up. Finally, my ex-husband told my son - "well, you'll just have to wait till you get to heaven, then you'll find out that I'm right." Now I thought that was about as chicken-shit as anyone could get.

After years of trying to have some dialogue and relationship with them, our family has one by one come to the conclusion that it's just not worth it. Their brains are mush and being in touch with them just causes more pain amongst the children. Well, me too, but that's another matter. There is another relative I do stay in touch with and we have come to the agreement that we cannot discuss any hot button issues for the sake of the relationship. It works out well that way. All I can do then is hope and pray for them or pray that all the older leadership will die off or go away and somehow the new generation will make it a better place.

Anyway, my whole point of saying this is that you may not be able to find any closure with them by talking to them. You could give it a try, but depending on how deluded they are, you might have to just give it up and close that chapter. I hope for the best for you and will keep you in my prayers.
 
winter 1
 
Reply Tue 19 Sep, 2006 09:53 pm
Well, I'm not really going to argue with them. I'm just going to hear them out and the calmly point out the a few blatant contradictions. I will leave it at that. There is no reason to argue. I have found it is that way with all of my "friends" that are still in TF. As soon as I say something like, "I guess that's what happens in TF." They get all defensive and ignore me. I'm not even trying to preach. It just slips out sometimes in a comment.

You know, I am sorry to tell you this. The older leadership dying off, and the younger people taking over will not help much the way it's headed. The young shepherds that are in positions of leadership, are steeped in F doctrine. They've haven't heard mcuh else. They think they really are Christians and everyone else is off and loney with their doctrines. The younger generations are also steeped in sex. Pornography, homosexuality, orgies, and the like are like the icing on the cake - the fun stuff to look forward to after the sexually oriented evening activity games. Maybe they'll even be drunk enough not remember getting raped. No one can really tell them no. Because it is what was taught them. Of course if you mention rape, fornication, lust, or adultery, they may not even know what the words mean or how they apply to their lives - it's something evil systemites do. They are free! They have a special liberty! It's a special present from the "J"man. Then there is the magical thinking of waving a wand, have some sex or m-st-rb-te, talk to some spirits, and whip yourself some more, cry, stop trying, but don't give up, and all your problems go away... But wait... They're not supposed to go away. There is always supposed to be too much to do. Their "J"man made it like that for them. So they can depend on his seeds. "J"man made life hard for them so that they will stay close to him.

OK. I've said enough. I don't think things will change for the better with younger leadership. Maybe after several generations of "compromise" they may be able to understand what morals are.

You should have heard my dad: "There must have been somewhere you let the devil in. There must have been something that caused you to doubt." Yeah, it must have been a little after I was six. Cuz I never felt such pain before that. Thanks guys! Take a look in the mirror or read the book called: How To Allienate Yourself From Your Offspring.

Well at least they didn't destroy their offspring. They never abused me physically. They also taught me the Bible when I was young. Of course this would eventually backfire on them. I am happy and greatful for that. I am so thankful.
 
Acheick
 
Reply Wed 20 Sep, 2006 12:09 am
winter wrote:
Quote:
They get all defensive and ignore me. I'm not even trying to preach. It just slips out sometimes in a comment.


Ain't that the truth! No kidding. They are so sensitive about any type of critical analysis. I think that says a lot about their insecurity.

Quote:
You know, I am sorry to tell you this. The older leadership dying off, and the younger people taking over will not help much the way it's headed.


I know - I guess it was just wishful thinking.

Quote:
The younger generations are also steeped in sex. Pornography, homosexuality, orgies, and the like are like the icing on the cake - the fun stuff to look forward to after the sexually oriented evening activity games. Maybe they'll even be drunk enough not remember getting raped. No one can really tell them no. Because it is what was taught them.


Phhht - and they claim to be a squeeky clean Christian group. Sigh.

Quote:
Of course if you mention rape, fornication, lust, or adultery, they may not even know what the words mean or how they apply to their lives - it's something evil systemites do. They are free! They have a special liberty! It's a special present from the "J"man. Then there is the magical thinking of waving a wand, have some sex or m-st-rb-te, talk to some spirits, and whip yourself some more, cry, stop trying, but don't give up, and all your problems go away... But wait... They're not supposed to go away. There is always supposed to be too much to do. Their "J"man made it like that for them. So they can depend on his seeds. "J"man made life hard for them so that they will stay close to him.


You've described them well. How come it is so clear to you, but they are so blind???

Quote:
You should have heard my dad: "There must have been somewhere you let the devil in. There must have been something that caused you to doubt." Yeah, it must have been a little after I was six. Cuz I never felt such pain before that. Thanks guys! Take a look in the mirror or read the book called: How To Allienate Yourself From Your Offspring.


That would be funny if it wasn't so sad. But you describe quite humorously. thanks for the chuckle.

Quote:
Well at least they didn't destroy their offspring. They never abused me physically. They also taught me the Bible when I was young. Of course this would eventually backfire on them. I am happy and greatful for that. I am so thankful.


Good for you! More power to you.
 
winter 1
 
Reply Wed 20 Sep, 2006 07:31 am
Acheick wrote:

Phhht - and they claim to be a squeeky clean Christian group. Sigh.

Maybe they are sqeaky, but not really clean. Not Christian in the eye of other Christians or the Bible we have today. I am not here to say, "Worship the Bible o ye scum." However, the lies caused me to search it's pages. After reading what I did there, I thought, well maybe there is some virture in TF doctrines that I can back with eastern religion. I read about Hinduism, Buddhism, and Taosim. Couldn't find anything that confirmed TF doctrines there either. So I can am pretty sure I can put them in the pile with the other sex cults that have come and gone through the ages. Of course I amy be wrong. God forgive me if I am. I know it's not for me. Yes, I would rather have a few simple morals to follow.

Quote:

You've described them well. How come it is so clear to you, but they are so blind???

Well, to be honest with you, I still have unconfirmed access to the "new wine." I have just recently been thourgh the a very difficult time in my life where TF doctrine proved to be of no use to me. So it's quite fresh on my mind. I guess in the future there might be a new wave of "strengthness revolution." For right now it's the "weakness revolution." You are a useless being, give your life to the Jman. Jman can "use" you. Don't you feel useless? Give up. Give to the Jman.

I prefer to use the word "Jman" because I am respectful of Jesus. I don't want to credit anything wrong to him.

In all honesty, I am thankful for those that taught me when I was young. I was never physically abused. I guess since I was quiet, I didn't get much "training." People I know have been raped, even recently. I am fortunate. Though, the mental and psychological abuse is horrible. I guess that's where I live. That's where it hit me. Of course you don't have to submit to it. Then what are you doing in TF anyway? That's the question I asked myself.
 
Acheick
 
Reply Wed 20 Sep, 2006 09:11 am
Quote:
I prefer to use the word "Jman" because I am respectful of Jesus. I don't want to credit anything wrong to him.


I like that idea and I think you are absolute right in looking at it that way. We always used to say TF Jesus, because he's not the Jesus of the bible, that's for sure.

Quote:
In all honesty, I am thankful for those that taught me when I was young. I was never physically abused. I guess since I was quiet, I didn't get much "training." People I know have been raped, even recently. I am fortunate. Though, the mental and psychological abuse is horrible. I guess that's where I live. That's where it hit me. Of course you don't have to submit to it. Then what are you doing in TF anyway? That's the question I asked myself.


A few years after we left, my oldest son took a trip and went around visiting some of his good friends in TF. He was like you, he would say, "well, what about this and what about that?" Obviously, they had no come back or lie they could squeeze through because he knew the truth about TF. They'd end up either being quiet or agreeing with him. So then he'd say, "Why do you stay in then?" They had no answer. Fortunately, some of them were eventually to leave, but some of them didn't and are even more hard core today.

I think you're very smart and I thank God too that you did have good people who taught you when you were young. I can see it paid off. You're definitely a thinking person.
 
Anonymous
 
Reply Wed 20 Sep, 2006 01:29 pm
Acheick wrote:
Quote:
I prefer to use the word "Jman" because I am respectful of Jesus. I don't want to credit anything wrong to him.


I like that idea and I think you are absolute right in looking at it that way. We always used to say TF Jesus, because he's not the Jesus of the bible, that's for sure.

Quote:
In all honesty, I am thankful for those that taught me when I was young. I was never physically abused. I guess since I was quiet, I didn't get much "training." People I know have been raped, even recently. I am fortunate. Though, the mental and psychological abuse is horrible. I guess that's where I live. That's where it hit me. Of course you don't have to submit to it. Then what are you doing in TF anyway? That's the question I asked myself.


A few years after we left, my oldest son took a trip and went around visiting some of his good friends in TF. He was like you, he would say, "well, what about this and what about that?" Obviously, they had no come back or lie they could squeeze through because he knew the truth about TF. They'd end up either being quiet or agreeing with him. So then he'd say, "Why do you stay in then?" They had no answer. Fortunately, some of them were eventually to leave, but some of them didn't and are even more hard core today.

I think you're very smart and I thank God too that you did have good people who taught you when you were young. I can see it paid off. You're definitely a thinking person.


I think you're very smart and I thank God too that you did have good people who taught you when you were young. I can see it paid off. You're definitely a thinking person.

If you think their smart and thinking, I would hate to imagine what you think of a person who is not!
Do you like the thread that Winter dedicated to me?


Love & God Bless

Max aka Guest
 
winter 1
 
Reply Thu 21 Sep, 2006 08:22 am
Acheick wrote:

I think you're very smart and I thank God too that you did have good people who taught you when you were young. I can see it paid off. You're definitely a thinking person.


I don't think I am very smart. My brother is someone who is smart and thinking. He's in WS. If anything good happens to me, it is not because of my brain. Timing is more important. Everything has cycles. If we know that, we can move ourselves into positions that are creative, progressive, or helpful in some way to us and those around us. After a time of plenty, there will be a time of lack. We know this. We put ourselves in the the correct positions. Right now I think I am in not such a comfortable position. There is not much progress or gain. So it is a time for me to grow and learn - not for self pity or atempting great things.

I wish I could meet others who have found there way out of TF to freedom. I mean to freedom - not to some other vice. At least we have this site. I am thankful for that.
 
Acheick
 
Reply Thu 21 Sep, 2006 09:20 am
winter wrote:
Acheick wrote:

I think you're very smart and I thank God too that you did have good people who taught you when you were young. I can see it paid off. You're definitely a thinking person.


I don't think I am very smart. My brother is someone who is smart and thinking. He's in WS. If anything good happens to me, it is not because of my brain. Timing is more important. Everything has cycles. If we know that, we can move ourselves into positions that are creative, progressive, or helpful in some way to us and those around us. After a time of plenty, there will be a time of lack. We know this. We put ourselves in the the correct positions. Right now I think I am in not such a comfortable position. There is not much progress or gain. So it is a time for me to grow and learn - not for self pity or atempting great things.

I wish I could meet others who have found there way out of TF to freedom. I mean to freedom - not to some other vice. At least we have this site. I am thankful for that.


Ah, but just by what you are saying here confirms to me that you are very smart. Maybe smart isn't the right word. Clear-headed? Is that better? And yes, there are plenty of SGs that have left and gone on with great lives in spite of their upbringing, maybe with some scars, but still excelling. They get a lot of credit in my book. Are there none around where you live?
 
winter 1
 
Reply Thu 21 Sep, 2006 09:34 am
Perhaps there are. I just need to get in contact with them. You know, swaping stories, talking and such helps to heal. I haven't really been able to do that yet. At least if I can see how they are doing. I guess it's one thing to hear they everyone is doing well. It's another thing to make friends with them and witness it with your eyes. Perhaps for now I'll have to go at it alone. It will be good for me.
 
max 1
 
Reply Thu 21 Sep, 2006 12:16 pm
winter wrote:
Acheick wrote:

I think you're very smart and I thank God too that you did have good people who taught you when you were young. I can see it paid off. You're definitely a thinking person.


I don't think I am very smart. My brother is someone who is smart and thinking. He's in WS. If anything good happens to me, it is not because of my brain. Timing is more important. Everything has cycles. If we know that, we can move ourselves into positions that are creative, progressive, or helpful in some way to us and those around us. After a time of plenty, there will be a time of lack. We know this. We put ourselves in the the correct positions. Right now I think I am in not such a comfortable position. There is not much progress or gain. So it is a time for me to grow and learn - not for self pity or atempting great things.

I wish I could meet others who have found there way out of TF to freedom. I mean to freedom - not to some other vice. At least we have this site. I am thankful for that.



I never said you were!
On the contrary you are by your own admission not!
As for timing “there’s no time like the presentâ€
 
Acheick
 
Reply Thu 21 Sep, 2006 02:12 pm
winter wrote:
Perhaps there are. I just need to get in contact with them. You know, swaping stories, talking and such helps to heal. I haven't really been able to do that yet. At least if I can see how they are doing. I guess it's one thing to hear they everyone is doing well. It's another thing to make friends with them and witness it with your eyes. Perhaps for now I'll have to go at it alone. It will be good for me.


You're probably right. Going it alone for awhile may be the best thing to do initially. That's what I did too. I couldn't stand any reminders of TF and sometimes exmembers may not always be as clear-headed as you. It can be quite annoying and really rub the wrong way. I went to college and felt like the blinds on the windows came off and the view was gorgeous. Funny, I made a friend with a young SG of the Hari Krishna's. Her family had done the exact same thing and left together. Unfortunately, it took the tragic death of her younger brother to wake them up. She was the nicest person and totally related to what I was going through with my kids and all. I think God put her there for me.
 
Jered
 
Reply Wed 27 Sep, 2006 11:15 am
I used to think like WalkerJ, but at this point I think the only solution for TFI’s problems is complete and final dismantlement. No matter how much the group cleans up its act, no reasonable person can be part of a group that was founded by a child molester who was obsessed with incest. Even if some members don’t know the truth about their founder and are trying to do good, the group as an entity is inherently evil.

Since leaving the group I have tried to distance myself from its dogmatism, and avoid seeing anything as entirely black or white. However, I have come to recognize that there are some things which are sufficiently black to merit elimination: for example, Bush is so stupid and such a bad person and President that any good qualities he may have are not worth saving him as a President or person. Similarly, any good qualities individuals in TFI may have do not make up for the group’s evil.

I think a more important issue is: what degree of personal inconvenience or suffering could be justified if it were to end the cult? Would a serious disruption in the lives of cult members be worth it? I think most of us agree that we would not like to see children snatched from their parents again in police raids. However, if “disruptionâ€
 
evanman
 
Reply Wed 27 Sep, 2006 04:19 pm
How can a rotten tree bare good fruit?
 
Anonymous
 
Reply Fri 29 Sep, 2006 03:29 pm
Re: against THE FAMILY
haily wrote:
i think who ever did that is **** sick and they all need to die, everyone that was involved with this. It makes sick that these people would put gods word in with this **** . i sware whoever out there that is in charge of this cult should be brutely killed. i hope the person knows that when they die theres no hope for them ur going to hell. your sick you bitch ass mother ****.


keep your ignorance to yourself, Haily. We're trying to be educated here. Get a life, mate, then try expressing yourself in public.
 
Anonymous
 
Reply Fri 29 Sep, 2006 03:45 pm
Jered wrote:
I used to think like WalkerJ, but at this point I think the only solution for TFI’s problems is complete and final dismantlement. No matter how much the group cleans up its act, no reasonable person can be part of a group that was founded by a child molester who was obsessed with incest. Even if some members don’t know the truth about their founder and are trying to do good, the group as an entity is inherently evil.

Since leaving the group I have tried to distance myself from its dogmatism, and avoid seeing anything as entirely black or white. However, I have come to recognize that there are some things which are sufficiently black to merit elimination: for example, Bush is so stupid and such a bad person and President that any good qualities he may have are not worth saving him as a President or person. Similarly, any good qualities individuals in TFI may have do not make up for the group’s evil.

I think a more important issue is: what degree of personal inconvenience or suffering could be justified if it were to end the cult? Would a serious disruption in the lives of cult members be worth it? I think most of us agree that we would not like to see children snatched from their parents again in police raids. However, if “disruptionâ€
 
winter 1
 
Reply Fri 29 Sep, 2006 05:33 pm
This guy is gonna get schooled.
 
Anonymous
 
Reply Fri 29 Sep, 2006 06:33 pm
Quote:
This guy is gonna get schooled.


Good response. I'm thinking he needs to take a philosophy course, perhaps in ethical reasoning.

Quote:
Even is you use the fact that something is illegal, how can you be sure that the people who decided to make it such are right? I think most laws are made by corrupt people with corrupt intentions, so who's to say what exactly is right or wrong?


This is very naive relativism. Despite corrupt people with corrupt intentions, there are some fairly universal principles that define the standards for a humane and decent life. The rule of law is built on these principles to keep society from plunging into bestiality through the uncontained behavior of corrupt people.

I understand cynicism about the way the world works, but I refuse to accept that some things, some behaviors under certain circumstances, aren't just flat out wrong and perhaps even evil. A 6o-year olf man (Berg) who sexualizes a child to be his sex toy, i.e., erotic stimulation from age three to sexual intercourse at puberty, may not have been viewed as wrong during some periods of human history or in certain cultures, but if you believe in the right of children to grow up with a minimal amount of physical exploitation, then it's WRONG.

It's wrong because human beings are not expendable commodities, and it destroys the fabric of society to allow humans to be treated this way. If you want to believe human beings are expendable commodities, fine. You're going to have listen to someone like me tell you why most of the world opposes slavery, which is what Berg's exploitation of several children growing up in his household amounted to. When such a child is an adult and no longer of use--out she goes! Children raised as sex servants do not necessarily grow up to become stable, self-sustaining adults. They become a burden on society: they wind up in prisons, homeless shelters, and drug rehab hospitals. This is why treating another human being as a commodity is wrong, Because the cost is not only to the individual who suffers the treatment, the cost is to society as a whole after that person is used up and discarded.
 
WalkerJ 1
 
Reply Fri 29 Sep, 2006 10:24 pm
Re: against THE FAMILY
walker wrote:
keep your ignorance to yourself, Haily. We're trying to be educated here. Get a life, mate, then try expressing yourself in public.

^^ Not me. (just for the record) Razz
 
 

 
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