GEEEEZ
This is really just one HUGE grumble site.
No one here is anywhere near to moving on with their lives!

I mean you guys could at least try to post some positive stuff every now and then. This kind of posting will drive you to an early grave!

:wink:

Why you grumbling about the grumbling of others?


Child abuse will lead you to an early grave. Or to "this kind of posting." I prefer the latter, for now.

I've come to learn that there is no "one-shoe-fits-all" rule when it comes to moving on. For one person, being able to vent may be the best method of moving on for them. For others, trying to find the positive in it all is the best way.

Either way, it comes across as calloused when you tell people they are not moving on because they post only negative stuff (if you'd read all the forums here, you'd find that there are several people who have posted positive sentiments as well). Besides, no one has the right to judge what qualifies as having moved on and what has not.

Judging from your posts so far, you seem to believe that 'moving on' equates to 'forgetting about the past'. Sorry, dude. Crimes were committed, so until people are held accountable for them, that's not going to happen.

Leocon,

The initial purpose of this particular topic was a poll, either "for" or "against". Because the consenses thus far is "against", that doesn't qualify your statement ..."you guys could at least try to post some positive stuff every now and then." A vote logically involves opposing or competing stances. [/quote]

Try telling that to the Ricky's corpse. There's nothing positive about a group of people that fxcks up little kids in the name of relgion.

Regardless, don't you ever read the fun stuff in the General section? We had fun with James, and Jay David Fistalot in one thread, rapped and wrote poems in another.

really, postive or negative a place to be able to go to discuss things is better than nothing....at least the admin here are supplying a place to come to...

I am positive in my atitude against CoG/TF.

I have moved on and am continuing to move on.

I think that you'll have a job trying to reconcile the irreconcilable.

Hi there.

Because of being in New Zealand, there hasn't been any coverage of the cult that I have seen, so I have only been looking at it today over the net. I am rather horrified that there is a group of people proclaiming that they are following God and His teachings from the Bible and yet they have done this in the past. As for David Berg preaching that he is a Prophet from God I find this very disturbing. I have a look at their official website and viewed over some of his writings, they appeared to be rather heresy using Jesus' grace and love to cover up the obvious flaws in his writings.

As for groups like this......they drive me mad!! My husband and I have only recently been converted to Christianity. Not by a church or a "group" or even a person. God Himself made it known to us that He existed during one week last year. He moved supernaturally in our lives converting me who believed in Buddhisim and the New Age. I have a relationship with God not with a "group" or a church. He helps me get through things. I too was sexually abused and God healed that pain in me.

These "groups" completely ruin societys perception of God. It makes our work harder trying to tell them that God exists and is a loving God. We live in a distrusting world and with people like this who use God as an excuse to sexually abuse and beat children makes me sick!!

I feel for you people out there. I am sorry that you have had to go through it, my heart cries for you. Especially because it has turned you away from the one that can heal your hurt.

My prayers are with all of you,
God Bless,
Lorna.

Hi Lorna! Nice to meet you. What a refreshing post. I was in New Zealand when the group, The Family, first went there, back in 1972. It was only a couple of weeks, but I loved the place and the people. I hated to leave. Anyway, I appreciate your post, you seem very sincere and caring. Thanks.

David Berg didn't just claim to be any old prophet of God. he actually claimed to be the David spoken about in Ezekiel Chp 34. His claim was that he was the greatest of all the prophets, the godliest and most Christlike person on the planet.

Berg also claimed to be God's mouthpiece for the "endtime", equating his blatherings to the Scriptures and even declaring they were actually more pertinent. Wasn't that Lucifer's deal, being dissatisfied with just the right hand position and wanting to be equal to God?

Yep, but at least Lucifer actually was God's right hand!

Precisely.

Yo you peoplez r f***in crazy
Dez peepz r f***in crazy man dey gotz sum mezzed up mynez and needz sum helpz

hi i'm catacocol

i'm form mexico and i just want to say this is a really good web.

I would just ask that the contributor be more specific and define what he finds objectionable. If I could throw my pennies into this debate, I would have to say that although not on the same scale, impact, relevance, etc of the important and meaningful discussions posted in this group, it could be argued that controversy is a vital and necessary element in perfecting the kind of open governance that we enjoy today. I don't mean literally of course because one could argue that it's not.

The right of "religious" (because even fringe groups meet the criterias of protection) freedom, when it was conceived and legislated, was one of the more straightforward freedoms outlined in the venerable document, the Constitution. This freedom was widely embraced by the individual states as well under no federal pressures back in the day. Realizing that the WASP religious basis was going to be vying with Catholics, Lutherans, Calvinists, Buddhism and what-not, this right was extended to every conceivable religion.

Now, I understand the pain and suffering, and much more experienced by many in this group but if the government were to ostracize and blacklist every objectionable, bizarre fringe groups/cults for what they did years ago, the questions would not be asked only of the COG/FT but we'd have to revoke the Scientologists, Masons, KKK, Neo-Nazis et al. I point to the last two ne'er do-wells precisely to evoke a wince because these two groups have both positively and fundamentally changed our perceptions of the limits of what is tolerable. If the US did deny different "religions" to flourish, then we would not be half the country we are today. We have learned from them as well, I believe.

It is doubtful that the framers of the Constitution intended for pedophilia, sexual harrassment-intimidation-exploitation, or fraud to be considered acceptable forms of exercizing the freedom of religion. These are criminal acts which deserve condemnation and punishment, not protection.

I did not personally experience sexual abuse in TF. However, I did experience and witness what I consider to be widespread psychological cruelty, manipulation, and exploitation. If the same leaders that responsible for such acts are in place as before, or if those that supported them and their doctrines are still in positions of leadership, and this certainly seems to be the case from what I´ve read, I cannot possibly support TF.

Law vs. Religion
Some people who have commented seem to assume that being against TF means having them legaly disolved or banned. They are banned in certain countries. Though, this is not what I imagine "against" to be.

AFAIK, the Aum cult (Aumshinrikyo) still opperates in Japan. Though trials have been held, and those found guilty have been prosecuted. This is not contradicting "freedom of religion." It is simply punishing crimes.

All moral issues aside:
It is illegal to kill a human in most countries. Thinking of killing is not illegal however. If thinking of killing leads to killing, it would seem wise to stop those thoughts. The thoughts are like the religion. The religion is not punished by the government. Those who act on false teachings, punish themselves by committing crimes that the ideas lead to. This concept can be seen clearly in TF - not only with the child abuse, but with other crimes as well.

Morally speaking:
Besides committing crimes, they also damage their own lives and souls as well of those of others.

I understand that if a government has no human rights, their laws may promote unmoral behaviour. However, most governments have human rights as a basis for their laws. So there is rarely an excuse to go against such laws as certain Christians may have had to do in the former U.S.S.R., etc. AFAIK, much of the persecution of religious groups done today is done "mob style." So the governments laws cannot really be blamed for the persecution in those cases. Though they may have been able to prevent the murders. Whether freedom of religion exists merely on paper, is another story.

Re: Law vs. Religion


If someone lives in an hermetically sealed social environment like TF where even the thought of dissent is condemned as sinful and a grave error, IMO, there is something wrong with that closed social environment. Those who lead in such an environment think they will find "fulfillment" in the perpetuation and extension of that environment, and those who follow, it would seem to me, probably feel they have no choice but to do the bidding of their leaders, particularly if they were born into such an environment and have never known anything else. That both leaders and followers should commit serious crimes comes as no surprise to me - nor that any efforts to prosecute such crimes be denounced as "attacks on freedom of religion", both reinforcing their belief that they are "doing Christ´s will" because they are being "persecuted", and, I would suppose, hopefully enlisting the help of other such groups in fighting the supposed "persecution", and hopefully, giving public legitimacy to their group, portraying those who want criminals prosecuted as "evil" persecutors who hate freedom of religion and are making a big fuss about something that happened "long ago", even though the same leaders that propitiated illegal activities are still venerated and/or still in place as leaders in the organization.

Within their ranks, "They´re attacking us because they hate our freedom!" makes a great battle-cry. It´s already been shown to work very well in the past.