Give me a chance!

Outsiders Point Of View
To Leocon(sp?), I would like to say that it takes courage to be able to show your presence to people of which are hurt deeply by a group of people you still are a member of. However, please be aware at the distrust of ex-members, as you in their minds, you could be here to try and persuade them to re-join, or not to speak out.

Secondly, I would like to tell you that: I'm from New Zealand, born in 1987 with no prior knowledge of the Children of God, until the last couple of weeks. It's a shame to see that people are able to manipulate others' mindsets so much, that they sell their possessions so that they have the right to pursue their spiritual path.

I have researched many different religions over my time, and many 'cults'. I myself am an 'alternative Christian'. Personally, I have feared Christianity because of the doctrines and teachings from other human beings. Also, I have wanted to believe in God, not out of fear of going to Hell if otherwise, but because it just feels right. I strongly believe in the Olde English line, from the Wiccan Rede: "An Ye Harm NONE, Do What Ye Will".

I am deeply sorry for all of the pain that the people, who have suffered abuse have felt, and if I had the power to turn back time I would. David Berg was clearly, an egomaniac to the fullest extent of the word. People like him are extremely good at getting people to do what they do not wish to, without their knowledge of being controlled. I do not blame anyone for believing in David Berg's teachings without prior knowledge of what occurred in the communes.

However, to those who knew before joining, what had happened inside (and about Ricky Rodriguez' use in Davidito): You have a serious responsibility to ensure that no abuses happen now. If you do not, then I can clearly suggest that reality strike your minds and souls. Not doing anything, or attempting to do anything, about someone else's abuse is 'enabling', and in my eyes, is just as bad as being the abuser yourself.

Any religious activity that promotes indoctrinating others, or not giving others a chance to make up their own minds and build their own belief structure based on 'adult' experiences, should be avoided at all cost.

spankings

Indian Joe wrote:

Bornor Regis wrote:
A little earlier in this thread someone talked of spanking and how they thought it was abuse.

I can't find it at the moment, but I am aware of a COG publication called "The Hot Potato" where it was suggested that children be spanked until they stopped crying.

That was certainly never done to me when I was a child. I would think that if you did something painful to a child so long that they were silent that it would certainly be abusive.

I think there are better alternative ways to discipline your children rather than spanking them or inflicting harm phisically. I was severely phisically abused by alot of people in the FI and all the beatings did no good. I was also often spanked or (beat) for no good reason and that did not help. I promised myself that if and when I had children of my own I would never lay a finger on them no matter what, come what may but I simply was not going to it. I could not do it. I have since raised my 2 sons and they are now 18 yrs and 17 yrs old. My sons still live with me and still say I love you Dad every once in a while. They turned out pretty good without ever having to be in fear of getting a spanking. I take pride in knowing that.

Quote:

I can't find it at the moment, but I am aware of a COG publication called "The Hot Potato" where it was suggested that children be spanked until they stopped crying.

That was certainly never done to me when I was a child. I would think that if you did something painful to a child so long that they were silent that it would certainly be abusive.

That's still my dad's favourite method, spanking his children till they stop crying. What that accomplishes, I don't know.

spankings

m wrote:

Quote:
I can't find it at the moment, but I am aware of a COG publication called "The Hot Potato" where it was suggested that children be spanked until they stopped crying.

That was certainly never done to me when I was a child. I would think that if you did something painful to a child so long that they were silent that it would certainly be abusive.

That's still my dad's favourite method, spanking his children till they stop crying. What that accomplishes, I don't know.

I think it will at least make a kid a tough person and not acomplish much else as far as positive results.

Re: Give me a chance!
Leocon
I think it is brave of you to reply to such a site. Since I have learned of the family and David Berg, I cannot get Ricky or "Davidto " out of my head. As much as this cult may have changed it is still a cult and its high leader Karen or "Maria" is still worshipped by many. SHE killed him, she says she never partook on any sexual abuse of her son but she let it happen. In fact from alot of the documents and Bergs little fantasy comic, it seems she was even in the room sometimes when these things would take place. She let the abuse happen even publish lewed pictures of this little boyt being seduced. THEN has the gall to say it was a TRADGEDY that Sue was killed. One of the women who abused her child. Karen Zerby was a "fisher of men", in other words an excuse for being a prostitue.

How can you worship and be a part of such an atrocious circle. I have tried to forget about Ricky, but something powerful inside me won't let it rest.
I WANT Karen to see this, to see what a whore (excuse my language) she is. A prostitute, a child abuser, a neglectful parent. Many more things I could say she is. I really hope she sees this.

I am not an X family member, but I was abused as a child.
I can't even begin to explain the problems that can occur after abuse is endured.
I HOPE SOMEONE WITH MORE WEBSITE KNOWLEDGE COPIES THIS ONTO EVERY FAMILY WEBSITE THERE IS. I WANT IT READ BY THEM. THE PEOPLE THAT ENCOURAGED THE ABUSE PEOPLE LIKE KAREN AND PETER AMSTERDAM.

Re:

Honest-Sandwich wrote:

Hi Leocon

the people I met from "The Family International" seemed very friendly and kind hearted.[/quote]

Friendly and kind hearted? Maybe they fooled you but maybe read the book "Jesus Freaks" It will tell you exactly what The Family worship. A man and now a woman who arre abusers, brainwashers, thieves, many more things.

Re:

leocon wrote:

[Ricky] says he was abused, and I say I am Zeus! He says he was molested, and I say I am the Fairy Queen Mother! Where is the proof?

THE PROOF is in the little comic Berg bought out, in books and pictures published all over the world. I have seen pictures of a young Ricky being seduced by Sue, another of your sick beleivers. She's dead now thanx to Ricky, and I don't feel one bit sorry for her.
You are so disturbing, you say you have nothing to do with that era, or abuse but you are still idolising a faith founded by a SICK TWISTED ROCKSPIDER, who was a manipulator in the highest manor and obliviously you have been manipulated, to think that worshipping this faith is ok.

And most of all how sad you have no compassion for what that boy endured. Aren't you supposed to beleive in the prophecy of davidto.??

Looking for references
Hi everyone
I have just recently been introduced to the existance of "The Family" and I am looking for referrence information ie. books and/or sites which I can learn more about it's history. I hope that after I have a better understanding of this group's past and have read for myself some of the references that I can help you all in your efforts to bring this to light.

It saddens me that for many of you there was no one there to hold your hand and walk you out the door when you were too young to know any different.

Re: Give me a chance!
I was reading about the changes that have occured since David Berg died. From what was summarized on exfamily, his widow instituted controls on sexual contact between members (regulating it I guess, to avoid practise of incest or old/young relations) and then added something about his ghost telling her to masturbate during prayer?

My reaction....
I am an outsider and never experienced any of what could only be described as the worst kind of horror an child or person could go through. Leocon, if he or she still reads this, you have be understand that most of the people on this website have suffered something no one should go through. Trust will be a hard thing. However, this could all a sham and someone trying to recruit people back into the The Family. The Family International...whatever...a chair is a chair no matter what shape or size it is.

Now, from what I've read and been taught...fruits from a poison tree no matter how much you change it...well it still is a poison tree. I say that because even though the group may have changed...it started out with bad intentions. I must say...if you really wanted to change the group...completely change the name. Also...Karen...is still the leader and she was one of the planters for this poison tree. One thing I've noticed and know...child molesters rarely...if ever fully change.

I am an outsider...yes and I don't hold any hatred towards anyone, although I'd like to see Karen to answer for what she did, but even an outsider can tell what is right and what is wrong. Personally I'd like to meet ex-members and get their stories. Hard and rough as that will be...their stories need to be told. If not for justice...then for some peace.

Re: Give me a chance!
Previously I have been a member of TFI's 2nd generation, however, I have little if no bad memories at all. I'd think it far too great a coincidence for me to have lived in a special bubble where neither I nor any of my peers suffered as many here have due to all the travelling I've dont while in The Family.
I rarely access these sites, just to see the latest turns. I do have a few contacts that still remain in the group and have kept me updated on TFI's evolution. Suffice it to say the changes and modifications it has undergone are truly getting the fine print down quite nicely, re-evaluating every belief, tradition, rule and mindset The Family acquired from 1968 to this day. More than a few changes have been made and continue to be made, and from the looks of it, The Family is headed to an incredibly modern, evolved, and near utopian direction. Personal talents and wishes are encouraged to be sought after with no threats of an excom bull, leaving members to follow God in the direction which pleases them most.
Yes mistakes have been made, incredible ones too, just by perusing this site leaves that very plain. But looking at it from a different allegory, take planes. Man has always wanted to fly, and since early years he has attempted to create such a vehicle in which he could. A century ago, you get Dummont's 14-bis and the Wright Brothers. But for millenia before that, you had monks and scientist injured or dead from cliff-diving with wings strapped to them.
Even after the first piloted aircraft, the injuries and death tolls haven't stopped. If I recall correctly, there was an incredible accident a short while ago with a huge, modern, aircraft flying from Rio to Paris. I hope you're starting to catch my drift. Should we terminate all plane factories and airports for their mistakes? Speaking of it, why don't we just dump cars and all modern travel, since they cause so much damage? TFI has yes, made many mistakes. And guess, it will continue to do so. But it has refined that which it purposed, to preach the gospel. Unbiased studies have shown that TFI is one of the fastest growing new religious movements.
Planes have the 3rd highest rate of deaths per billion journeys, losing only to motorcycles and (yes) bicycles. But it is the fastests, most efficient travelling mode. So what if TFI makes and continues to make mistakes? It has gone from a Teens for Christ 14-bis to a The Family International F-16 Fighting Falcon. It is going places. Why ditch it for a relative few mistakes compared to its incredible realizations? Suit yourself.

Re: Give me a chance!

M. Lutterbach wrote:

I hope you're starting to catch my drift. Should we terminate all plane factories and airports for their mistakes? Speaking of it, why don't we just dump cars and all modern travel, since they cause so much damage?

I believe what people were not happy about were not "things" like factories and cars, but people. Specific individuals who caused great harm and grief to the lives of not a few people, both inside and outside of TF. A number of those people are apparently still in the organization in leadership positions.

Quote:

Unbiased studies have shown that TFI is one of the fastest growing new religious movements.

How did you determine that these studies were "unbiased studies"?

Quote:

Planes have the 3rd highest rate of deaths per billion journeys, losing only to motorcycles and (yes) bicycles. But it is the fastests, most efficient travelling mode. So what if TFI makes and continues to make mistakes? It has gone from a Teens for Christ 14-bis to a The Family International F-16 Fighting Falcon. It is going places. Why ditch it for a relative few mistakes compared to its incredible realizations? Suit yourself.

I think that for a person who is as excited about TFI as you are to declare themselves to be a previous "member of TFI's 2nd generation" is a bit surprising. I would have thought that you would continue with them, and your continuance with TF would lend more weight to your words, at least to whatever conviction there is behind them.

Thank you, I did suit myself -- long ago, and continue to do so.

Re: Give me a chance!

M. Lutterbach wrote:

But looking at it from a different allegory, take planes. Man has always wanted to fly, and since early years he has attempted to create such a vehicle in which he could. A century ago, you get Dummont's 14-bis and the Wright Brothers. But for millenia before that, you had monks and scientist injured or dead from cliff-diving with wings strapped to them.
Even after the first piloted aircraft, the injuries and death tolls haven't stopped. If I recall correctly, there was an incredible accident a short while ago with a huge, modern, aircraft flying from Rio to Paris. I hope you're starting to catch my drift. Should we terminate all plane factories and airports for their mistakes? Speaking of it, why don't we just dump cars and all modern travel, since they cause so much damage? TFI has yes, made many mistakes. And guess, it will continue to do so. But it has refined that which it purposed, to preach the gospel. Unbiased studies have shown that TFI is one of the fastest growing new religious movements.
Planes have the 3rd highest rate of deaths per billion journeys, losing only to motorcycles and (yes) bicycles. But it is the fastests, most efficient travelling mode. So what if TFI makes and continues to make mistakes? It has gone from a Teens for Christ 14-bis to a The Family International F-16 Fighting Falcon. It is going places. Why ditch it for a relative few mistakes compared to its incredible realizations? Suit yourself.

I don't have time to point out all the grammatical and factual errors, logical fallacies and other nonsense in what you have written but comparing a criminal religious organization founded and run by child molesters to the invention of the airplane makes absolutely no sense. Airplanes have actually benefited humanity whereas as The Family has caused society enormous harm. It has created one of the safest places in the world for child molesters. It has not provided the survivors of its horrific crimes with any restitution but instead left the victims and society to pay all the costs. The few charity projects it has that are not completely fraudulent and a parasitic drain on the communities in which they operate are tainted by the fact that many if not most of them allow those those who directly participated in the rape and sexual assault of children or other forms of child abuse or allowed it to happen to have contact with children or even to run the projects. The result is that such projects do not benefit society at all but instead put the children they claim to be helping at a greatly increased risk of rape, sexual assault and other forms of child abuse. There may be a tiny number of charity projects operated by The Family which are not run by child molesters (although of course, the top leaders of the organization are child molesters) and which are not fraudulent parasitic drains on the communities in which they operate but the benefits they may provide are vastly outweighed by the enormous harm done by the rest of the organization.

If you want to compare The Family to something, a much better choice would be a shit sandwich. You can add and subtract all sorts of ingredients to and from a shit sandwich and you can go on and on about how much you have changed it and while it may be true that you have changed it and maybe even made it not stink as much, no matter what you do it will still be a shit sandwich. You can use the best bread in the world for your shit sandwich but that won't change the fact that the bread is smeared with shit which you'll never be able to completely remove. Perhaps you can save and sanitize some of the ingredients but no one is going to forget that those ingredients were once in a shit sandwich. You could expose the shit sandwich to ionizing radiation to destroy the harmful microorganisms, bacteria and viruses it contains but it will still be a shit sandwich and if you try to eat it, it may not kill you but it may make you vomit. For the few people (coprophiliacs) who enjoy the smell and taste of shit, the shit sandwich that is The Family International may be a good option but everyone else is getting sick of the stench and having to clean up the mess.

Re: Give me a chance!
i just read your post, and was wondering if you'd mind answering a couple of questions. I'm writing a paper for a college class, and i have picked the family international as my topic. i know the stuff that you can find on the internet, but i'd like to get a first hand knowledge from someone who was there. i don't want to really pry, but i'm really interested in what brought you to the family, and the decisions that made you stay, things like that. if your interested, please post back or you can email me at [email protected]. i'd love to hear from you.

thanks

angela

Re: Give me a chance!
i just want to say that i am an ex member who was mentally, physically and sexually abused in thsis organazation i have been out for over 24 years but the pain and mental anguish has never ended it has left an impact on me that will always remain. i know for sure that everytime that i think i am past all this that something happens to bring it all back to the surface. it has had such an impact that i at times cannot function the way i need to and it has done the same to my siblings i have repressed some memories because they are just to painful to live with. my own children have seen documentaries on this organazation and have asked me why i even talk to my parents anymore, it is hard to explain to them that when all you had in the midst of all this abuse was so to speak your parents and siblings it kinda is hard not to speak to them in a way its a false since of security.(that's the only way i can think to describe this).
i am not really sure there is anything that can make all of this better . your past is your past and it will always so to speak be "hiding in the closet".

Re: Give me a chance!
hello again i am the guest that posted the note before this one. i just want to say that my biggest problem is that people who are not in this organazation if they abuse a child pysically, mentally, or sexually they go to jail the people in this organaztion don't they get by with their actions. in the real world that doesn't happen. so i want to know when are these Abusers going to have to stand up and be accountable for their actions.???? i know if anyone ever did these things to my children i would not rest until they were behind bars so that they couldn't do it to others.think about how you would feel if it happened to your child or children...the damage is done so lets make these people be accountable for their actions...

Re: Give me a chance!
I think Leacon/Eman's replies to the Davidito stuff illustrate the biggest issue with TF as an organisation, their so called faith. When faced with the irrefutable evidence of documented child abuse by Berg and his associates he feels the need to justify it. What TF and their members should be doing is rejecting this old material as wrong, calling it past mistakes and moving on. This would be a step in right direction and could even bring some small amount of closure to certain individuals.
But they will not do this and they never will do this for a very simple reason; it would destroy the very foundations on which TF is built, faith. TF members' faith is supposedly faith in God, when it is in fact faith in Berg. Berg is the self appointed prophet of God and his every word, we are led to believe, are those of God spoken through him. So if TF were to ever suggest that anything Berg said was wrong, where would they go from there. If he made one error, he could have made two, or maybe more. At this point faith shatters, individual thoughts and opinions begin to appear and reality comes crashing in.
This is the reason Eman must try so hard to justify this vile publication. Looking up the word 'abuse' in the dictionary, bringing up a strange cleaning method used by some mothers in some culture at some time (possibly), and even when pushed saying that child sex was not wrong (despite claiming that his wife was damaged by abuse and that he would never let his own children be subjected to it).
You see, Eman knows deep down its wrong, however a very strong barrier of faith will not allow him to admit it even to himself.

and they accuse the 'systemites' of brainwash! oh the irony Confused

Re: Give me a chance!
face it people...they dont care.....if they did they wouldnt be in the family.Everyone who was or is in the family knows what happened. The only question is do they care or not.

PS if any fromer members of this group want to get in contact feel free to mail me at [email protected]
we should take care of eachother. No one else will

Re: Give me a chance!
How do you propose "closure"? How?

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