Give me a chance!

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WalkerJ 1
 
Reply Sat 22 Oct, 2005 01:11 am
leocon wrote:
For one, there is nothing to create! There [is] already a "us vs them" enviroment!

Is there? I haven't noticed--at least not from where I stand.

You know, the thing that I hate about dialogue over the Internet is that you can't read emotion into what people are saying. If it helps, picture me telling you all this stuff over a casual beer together. Heck, if you weren't on another continent, I might just meet up with you for a beer (although, admittedly, your whole take on the adult-child sex thing has me pretty wierded out at the moment).

Dude, I know what you're feeling right now. You came on here, wanted to help us. Maybe you had some trouble expressing yourself well. Who knows? But the bottom line is that you keep sticking your foot in your mouth by defending the indefensible. In some ways, I don't blame you. It's what we were raised to do. I used to do it too. Now it's your turn.

Quote:
And as far as proof....I would like to see you come up with a better reason for why he had such a sudden change of heart after he felt The Family!

That, Eman, is not a difficult question to answer. You see, I went through the exact same thing. Right around the time I left the Family, I thought Maria and Peter were nice people. I didn't agree with their beliefs, and I thought some of the things they did were a little whacko, but I just couldn't find it in me to say that they were abusers who needed to be held accountable for their actions.

So what changed me?

It's funny, I used to think that when people leave the Family, they just throw out the baby with the bathwater overnight and begin looking for someone, preferrably The Family, to blame for their failures.

Thus, my wife and I were determined that we were going to back up with fact, every single descision we made. We were going to lay aside all preconceived notions, study both sides meticulously, take a good hard look at the facts, and then draw open ended conclusions from there.

One of the most shocking things for me personally, was to read things like Lord Justice Ward's Judgment. As a Family member, I always thought that the Family had won that court case. Finding out first hand the hard facts about that case was difficult in a way. I had to admit that I was wrong. I had to admit that I had gullably swallowed a pre-digested and polished version of the BI case.

You know, in a way your right. One lone piece of evidence of the abuse in the Family may not hold water in a court of law. But when combined with the hours of corroborating oral testimony, the video footage, the photos, and--most damning of all--the Family's own writings; the horror of it all is overwhelming.

Another thing that shocked me, was reading letters from Peter and Maria written to both me and some of my friends. I watched in disbelief as Peter would write one thing in the personal letter and tell the Family the opposite. I couldn't believe he could be so two faced. It was infuriating. I'm kicking myself right now for deleting them.

But you know, even after the letters and all that research, I still couldn't bring myself to say that I had been abused.

You wanna know what the turning point was for me on that one? It was when I watched my daughters grow up knowing that I would rather die, than to have them experience some of the things that I experienced. It was the heart-wrenching, nauseous feeling that would come over me when I imagined my own children being subjected to the same beatings, Victor Camps, silence restrictions, begging on the streets, etc. that I was subjected to. And that's not even considering the sexual abuse. I can't even bring myself to imagine my little babies being subjected to my experiences with that.

It was then that I became fully aware of just how demented an adult must be, before they would do to a child what was done to me, and call it godly.

That was my personal turning point.

Since then, I have raised my voice and demanded accountability from the people who encouraged my abuse. Their silence hitherto has only compounded their guilt.

I cannot offer you proof of the cause of Ricky's change of heart. I can only offer you his own writings on the subject. http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/Ricky_Rodriguez#Writings_by_Ricky_Rodriguez

If you want to believe that he was brainwashed into believing he had an abusive childhood, go right ahead. But, I thought the Family has always said that brainwashing is a myth (http://www.thefamily.org/dossier/statements/brainwashing.htm), so how does that work?

It's almost comical. If I tell a current Family member that when I was a kid we had weekly "Kids Sharing Night" in which all the 5- to 9-year-olds in the Home had sex with each other in the same room, they say, "So? What's the big deal with that?" If I tell a non-Family person the same thing, in exactly the same way, they say, "Oh, my God! That is so sick. How could they have done that to you? Where were your parents?".

Now, why do you think there is such a difference in reactions? Could that have something to do with coming to see things in a different light once you've left The Family? For me, the answer is obvious.

Quote:
See I believe that when you are in rebellion against God and His Will for your life, that that leaves you open to the dark side.....and then anything horrible is possible. Will you just shove this back at me as some fanatical belief?

No, Eman, I won't. You have a right to believe whatever you like. But let me ask you: How do you know that I am not doing God's highest will for me? How do you know that God is not using the ex-SGAs as his tool to hold people like Maria and Peter accountable for their actions? How do you know that Jesus wasn't referring to people like Maria and Peter when he said of people who offend the little ones "it were better that a millstone be hung about their neck and they be cast into the sea" (a very violent statement, if you ask me).

Now, mind you, I'm no Christian (and it's fine if you want to believe that I'm rebelling against God. That's what you grew up with and that's what you're comfortable believing, so you do that) I'm just telling you this to get you to think about the flip-side for a second. I mean, how are you going to know your faith is pure gold if you never put it in the fire of doubts?

The dark side? Anything horrible is possible? Have you been watching too much of Star Wars again? Razz

Quote:
And you have proof of this, or do you just believe what everyone else tells you?

<sarcasm>Yes, I am still a good little Family boy who believes everything he is told.</sarcasm> I mean, COME ON? How much proof does it take to know that a guy is shunning the entire ex-member community because he wants to be left alone? How much proof does it take to know that you don't get much contact with ex-members on a fishing boat? How much proof does it take to know that there aren't a whole lot of ex-members in Tacoma?

Doesn't it sound suspicious to you that WS keeps saying "a small group of bitter ex-members influenced him" and yet they haven't named names? If they really had someone to blame for this, wouldn't their names be all over a Family "against" prayerlist by now? You'd think the Lord would at least be kind enough to give them that much in prophecy.

leocon wrote:
Yes I did watch it! And yes its a tragic thought that he would want to resort to violence at the age of 11yrs. (If that is indeed the truth-Yes I might even be saying that he was capable of lying.....as are we all!)

Eman, people lie when it benefits them. No one lies to hurt themselves. No one would murder another human being for something they know is a lie.

Tell me. How do you think it would benefit someone to go public and say, "I was sexually abused"?

Besides, there's a whole GN about the battle with violent and suicidal thoughts that Ricky had as a child. But you would only have been about 3 or 4 years old back then, so what would you remember?

Quote:
And this is why I do not like answering your questions, because no matter what I say you will always find a way to discriminate and undermine what I say! It does not matter at all what I say...... unless I was to come and join you in your bloody crusade!

What you did right there, Eman, is what is known as projecting yourself onto other people. You imagine that I am trying to undermine you because that is what you would do if the roles were reversed. You think I am in a "bloody crusade" because that is the darkest side of yourself that you can imagine and you attribute it to me.

I can honestly tell you that neither of your fears are founded. Whether you believe that or not is up to you, and, frankly, none of my concern.

leocon wrote:
You twist and contort my words! I said "According to the book there is only proof that any sexual interaction he was engaged in was enjoyed by him"! Tell me otherwise and then prove it!

I totally agree with you. That's what it said in the book. I do not question it.

Now answer me this: Since when is the onus for making responsible, sensible and balanced choices the responsibility of a 2-year-old? Since when does a toddler know what is best for him?

Quote:
Just because I choose to not do something does not make it wrong for anyone else to do it! That is seriously silly logic!

Eman, a crime is a crime is a crime. Period. Choice has nothing to do with it.

What I find fantastic, is that you cannot hear your own insanity when you say that it is no crime for an adult to suck on a child's penis.

leocon wrote:
Kids are always, and I mean young kids, playing doctor and fondling one another while bathing etc. I have even seen little 1yr olds sitting on the potty and fondling themselves (That was in a secular Kindergarden...mind you)

True. But, again, what has that got to do with it? In which of the above scenarios was an adult doing the fondling and playing? None.

Of course it's perfectly normal for a child to discover the human body on their own. What is criminal, is when an adult touches and fondles them with the intent of sexual stimulation. Why is this such a difficult concept for you to grasp? It's something that is embedded in every human's conscience.

leocon wrote:
Times were very different back then and since things have changed the world over and so has The Family!

And I'm sure you can back this up with plenty of secular newspaper articles and educational books from the 70s and 80s in which mothers were shown to be doing this stuff to their own children, right? Good luck with that one, man.

leocon wrote:
[...] as far as his refusal to "answer any questions about sex or his sexual history or his feelings about the matter", what do you think was the reason for that?

Imagine your mother took photos of her best friends lying naked in a bed with you as a toddler, sucking you off and simulating sexual positions and published those in a book of which a thousand copies were made. Some-teen years later, you are asked by a psychologist about that. What would you say, Eman?

What would you say?
 
leocon
 
Reply Sat 22 Oct, 2005 05:16 am
no more!
I am stoping right here with all this back and forth!

I did not come here to discuss what I have been discussing so far! I am getting back to the reason why I came here!
Besides you are not even a Christian so you have no understanding of the spiritual warfare etc.....!
How can I talk to you about spiritual things (Such as knowing that you are NOT in God's perfect will) when you don't even recognize or acknowledge the God who made you?

Forget it!

If you, or anyone else here, does not want to come forward with their PERSONAL aduse incident and let me know the name of the abuser....than I cannot do anything for you! I am trying to start SOMEWHERE for crying out loud!

I will not reply to any postings other than ones with the above requested content!
 
Thorwald 1
 
Reply Sat 22 Oct, 2005 10:31 am
leocon wrote:
I am stoping right here with all this back and forth!


What a lame attempt. You don't answer our questions because you know you are wrong. Don't try to turn this into a "Christian vs. atheist" debate . . . that is just plain silly and you know it! You really don't believe this stuff. You are just scared of the unknown (and be honest, you really don't know much about the world). I know you will come around. It is only a matter of time before reality strikes. Believe me, it will be a rude awakening! We will be on the "other side" welcoming you as a friend. We were all once just as ignorant as you come across.

leocon wrote:
Besides you are not even a Christian so you have no understanding of the spiritual warfare etc.....!


Are you serious? Did you think we are that dumb? Where are you from, dude? Your lame attempt at an insult is quite simply hilarious! Let me spell this out for you: We were once just like you! We were raised in exactly the same group as you, taught exactly the same stuff as you, exposed to exactly the same stuff as you. We read all the GNs you read (including the latest ones). Some of us (not me) just left your group! And you have the audacity and arrogance to proclaim, "you have no understanding of the spiritual warfare"? All of this coming from a guy who is years younger than most of us and has experience far, far less that us?

Get real!

leocon wrote:
If you, or anyone else here, does not want to come forward with their PERSONAL aduse incident and let me know the name of the abuser....than I cannot do anything for you!


I am sorry, but how do you think you can do anything for me? I honestly don't think anyone here needs your help. We can, however, try to understand each other. Don't you see how arrogant it is to go to a group of people (most of them older than you) and write, "How can I help you heal? Tell me your personal stories of abuse (on a public forum) and let me help you understand that it wasn't abuse"?
 
WalkerJ 1
 
Reply Sat 22 Oct, 2005 11:31 am
Re: no more!
leocon wrote:
Besides you are not even a Christian so you have no understanding of the spiritual warfare etc.....!


Yeah, right. I was in the Family for 24 years -- That's longer than you have been in so far. I left 4 years ago. I read Mo Letters and GNs just like you do. I got "prophecies" just like you do. I prayed against the Family's enemies just like you do. I witnessed to and prayed with people. I belived in the Endtime. I even had the entire book of Revelations memorized at one point. And now you're telling me that I "have no understanding of the spiritual warfare"? You crack me up, Eman.

leocon wrote:
How can I talk to you about spiritual things (Such as knowing that you are NOT in God's perfect will) when you don't even recognize or acknowledge the God who made you?


Believe it or not, it is not a proven fact that God exists much less that he/she created me if he/she does exist. I've given that one a good long hard look as well, so I've got plenty of research to back up my agnosticism. I'm sure this is not a topic you want to get into right now, but let me know when you do. I'm sure we could have a healthy debate on the existence of God as well.

leocon wrote:
If you, or anyone else here, does not want to come forward with their PERSONAL aduse incident and let me know the name of the abuser....than I cannot do anything for you! I am trying to start SOMEWHERE for crying out loud!

What about the email I sent you? What about the other names I gave you? I've told you about my personal abuse and you've done nothing about it except try to convice me that it wasn't abuse.

Noone wants to tell their story of abuse to someone who will trample all over it. It's a delicate subject which you do not appear qualified to handle.

Like I said above: If you want to help me, get me an audience with Peter and Maria so I can present the subject of my and my friends' abuse to them face to face. Can you do that?
 
Jack 2
 
Reply Sat 22 Oct, 2005 03:30 pm
Re: no more!
leocon wrote:
Besides you are not even a Christian so you have no understanding of the spiritual warfare etc.....!
How can I talk to you about spiritual things (Such as knowing that you are NOT in God's perfect will) when you don't even recognize or acknowledge the God who made you?


WOW! To quote myself:

Jack wrote:
Jesus H. Christ! Christians crack me the fxck up.
 
Thorwald 1
 
Reply Sat 22 Oct, 2005 03:52 pm
Here is an article on wrote on MovingOn.org a while back. I thought it was relevant to our current discussion:
Thorwald wrote:

Ignorance is bliss!

After browsing the many articles (or "testimonies") written by current second-generation members [on MyConclusion], I noticed what most of you have probably also noticed: These articles were written by relative children . . . 15-19 year olds! A 15-year old today would have been born in either 1989 or 1990!

Reading articles that start with, "Hi! I am 15-years old and The Family is the best place in the world to be. I was never abused nor were any of my friends." Well, of course you weren't. It had all stopped by the time you came around. Is it really the "best place in the world to be"? How do you know? Do you really expect us (your much older brothers and sisters who grew up in your same group and are now living very different lives) to believe you know what you are talking about?

One of those 15-year olds happens to be my little brother. We rarely communicate these days. However, he sent me an email a few weeks ago and asked why we former members were so bitter and making up all these stories. I have always loved my little brother and any anger those questions conjured was quickly replaced by sorrow of his ignorance of his group's history. You see, I am almost 15 years other than him. I could show no more anger towards him than any parent would show towards their child's mistakes.

I wrote him back with "Hey there little brother . . . so, you think we are all just making up these stories? Why is it that, out of us eight children, only you and our oldest sister are still in? . . . Here is a math question for you: You know how our sister is 31? And you know that her oldest child is almost 17? How old do you think that would make her when she got pregnant? Yes. That's right. 14! Did you ever wonder why she [the child] doesn't look like the rest of her siblings? That is because her biological daddy is not her current daddy. Her real daddy is much older than her mommy . . . You see, you aren't old enough to remember BAR pubs. You weren't around when some of us were on Sharing Schedules. No. We are not speaking figuratively here. These were actual schedules that were posted on the bulletin board in the kitchen. You weren't even born when our older sister turned 12 and part of her birthday present was a date with a 35-year old man. I was there and I remember it well. Was this just way back when? What about our other sister? She turned 12 in 1987. Guess what she also got for her birthday present? That's right, a date with man our parent's age. You were born two years later. You were never on or viewed videos of girls dancing naked (some of these "girls" were my age). By the time you could read, books and letters like the "The Story of Davidito", "The Devil Hates Sex", "Sex With Grandmother", "My Childhood Sex", "The Little Girl Dream", "The Mene Series: The Last State", etc. were already removed from the libraries and burned [see: Purged. You never went to bed at nights knowing that our mother was going out FFing most the night (and would explain the bad mood our father was in the next morning). You never had to wear a sign that read, "I can't talk but I can smile!" You were never spanked on your bare butt in front of the rest of the kids your age. You never witnessed an "exorcism". You were never told, "I can see the Devil in your eyes and I am going to beat him out of you!". Your group can call the above whatever they like ("hard love", etc.) but the "System" calls it abuse! . . . The difference, little brother, is when you finally decide to leave I will still take you in. I will not let your ignorance destroy a brother's love. I will not turn my back on you. I will not give up on you. You will always be my brother. I am always ready to talk and listen. Notice how Mom and Dad don't talk to me anymore? Notice how they call me and the rest of your brothers and sisters liars? Notice how your leaders call us "vitriolic apostates" and pray against us? I will never do that to you! No matter what you do or say, you are my brother and I love you!" (end).

Well, I haven't heard back from him yet. Hoping to though.

To all of you: How many here were either on a Sharing Schedule or actually saw one? How many here actually read books like "The Story of Davidito"? How many here were on Silence Restriction or saw someone wearing a sign? How many here were spanked in front of others until they "stopped crying" or witnessed it happening to someone else? How many here can relate to what I wrote to my little brother?

We simply can not hold it against our little brothers and sisters still in. They don't know any better. They aren't old enough to know the truth.


original post: http://www.movingon.org/article.asp?sID=3&Cat=39&ID=2659
 
leocon
 
Reply Sat 22 Oct, 2005 06:03 pm
Quote:
What about the email I sent you? What about the other names I gave you? I've told you about my personal abuse


please re-send it as I don't think I ever recieved it!
Thanks
 
WalkerJ 1
 
Reply Sat 22 Oct, 2005 07:32 pm
leocon wrote:
please re-send it as I don't think I ever recieved it!
Thanks


Just resent it.

For the record, here is my email to you:
Quote:
Hi leocon,

Here you go:

Last known names and aliases: Lonnie Davis, Marc
Last known location: Washington DC area
Some of the of accusations against him:
From one of my best friends: http://www.movingon.org/article.asp?sID=1&amp;Cat=10&amp;ID=69
Other victims: http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/Lonnie_Davis
There are other people who are accusing him of sexual abuse as well, but in respect of their wishes I will allow them to tell their story to a jury first.

For extra bonus points, see if you can locate him in a state (assuming he's still in the US) in which the statute of limitations on child abuse is longer than 12 years.

Good luck.

--Stephan (aka WalkerJ on xFamily and JohnnieWalker on MovingOn)

PS: Give my regards to WS when you forward this to them Wink
 
Porceleindoll
 
Reply Sat 22 Oct, 2005 07:46 pm
leocon wrote:

And as far as proof....I would like to see you come up with a better reason for why he had such a sudden change of heart after he felt The Family!
See I believe that when you are in rebellion against God and His Will for your life, that that leaves you open to the dark side.....and then anything horrible is possible. Will you just shove this back at me as some fanatical belief?


Yes, most definitely a fanatical religious belief. It first has to be based on the belief that there is a God, and then that if you have left the Family you are in rebellion against Him, and then that there is a 'dark side' to which you are now open to. Personally, I don't believe any of it, so it does sounds rather fanatical to me.

It is though exactly this kind of fear that held me in grips after I left the cult, in a near panic whenever separated from my children, waking up in nightmares in the middle of the night. It became absolutely necessary to my sanity that I reject the notion of a God and His punishment on me for choosing to not continue in the Family any longer.

Apparently Leocon, Eman, you are under the same fear. Einstein said it was a sad thing that men lived in hope of reward or fear of punishment after death. You are living in that sad hope.

Perhaps you can ask yourself, how much of your life is lived in fear? I can't believe you have no fear. We were always in fear--fear of saying something wrong, fear of not pleasing Jesus and therefore not receiving blessings, fear of being independent, unyielded, unloving. And with that fear also came guilt and condemnation. How many times did I go to bed crying because I had again failed to live up to God's standards as dictated by the Family? I am SO much happier now living in confidence and courage without God than living in fear with Him.
 
WalkerJ 1
 
Reply Sun 23 Oct, 2005 10:04 am
Eman, here's what your belief in the dark side reminds me of:

http://media.skoopy.com/vids/vid_00823.wmv

Does that look fanatical to you?
 
leocon
 
Reply Mon 24 Oct, 2005 04:28 am
WalkerJ wrote:
leocon wrote:
please re-send it as I don't think I ever recieved it!
Thanks


Just resent it.

For the record, here is my email to you:
Quote:
Hi leocon,

Here you go:

Last known names and aliases: Lonnie Davis, Marc
Last known location: Washington DC area
Some of the of accusations against him:
From one of my best friends: http://www.movingon.org/article.asp?sID=1&amp;Cat=10&amp;ID=69
Other victims: http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/Lonnie_Davis
There are other people who are accusing him of sexual abuse as well, but in respect of their wishes I will allow them to tell their story to a jury first.

For extra bonus points, see if you can locate him in a state (assuming he's still in the US) in which the statute of limitations on child abuse is longer than 12 years.

Good luck.

--Stephan (aka WalkerJ on xFamily and JohnnieWalker on MovingOn)

PS: Give my regards to WS when you forward this to them Wink


Thanks for that. I never got this in my box!
Which E-mail are you using?
 
Anonymous
 
Reply Mon 24 Oct, 2005 07:27 am
Leocon wrote:

Quote:
And as far as proof....I would like to see you come up with a better reason for why he had such a sudden change of heart after he felt The Family!


Rick did not have a sudden change of heart after leaving. He may have appeared happy while in TFI primarily because his parents had control over information about him. This wasn't the case after he left. The fact is that Rick was suicidal while still in TFI. He was examined by a quack psychologist in 1993 who pronounced Rick as "normal." The results of this exam have been published by TFI for the world to see. This is what people with clinical expertise see when they read that bogus psychological exam: Dr. Lilliston examined Rick for things that had little relevance to his suicidal ideation and a documented history of deviant sexualization. Rick had a number of symptoms frequently seen in children who are severely abused, including bedwetting and deep, melancholic moods.

Berg & Zerb blamed these symptoms on hitch-hiking demons. How convenient. Have you ever noticed how Berg & Zerb are never responsible for any of the bad things that happen to the children in their care, including Merry Berg? What's the point of being born again, Spirit-filled, or having the "privilege" of growing up in the household of God's end-time prophets if you're just as likely to become demon possessed as kids who grow up in the System?
 
WalkerJ 1
 
Reply Mon 24 Oct, 2005 07:49 am
leocon wrote:
Thanks for that. I never got this in my box!
Which E-mail are you using?


This is what I got (email address masked by me)

Quote:
"Richard Smith" <laxzax1 AT ******** DOT com>
Hi there,
You can reply to this E-mail address.
Cheers
leocon
 
Anonymous
 
Reply Thu 3 Nov, 2005 09:50 am
It is startling that such a malicious, filthy, sinister organization is still in existence today.Upon reading the exploitation of children and women that this organization has caused I have been groced out and angered. I commend all of you who have made it out of such a despicable organization. I cannot believe people pervert the Bible so they can commit adultery and all other filthiness when the Bible is dead against such things!
 
Saved
 
Reply Thu 3 Nov, 2005 02:37 pm
I'm just butting in here. I haven't read all the postings in this particular topic but i would like to say a couple of things, 1. Leocon, you have to understand why these people don't understand the Family the same way you do. There experiences of it have been tainted, where as your experience of it has been a happy one. We base our lives on our experiences, such with Ricky who interpretated the abuse as unworthyiness and disgust which in turn ate me up leaving him helpless.

You appear to be happy in this group but just take a look at why you are in it and why you are defending it. Its it because to you that it is a happy place with lots of well meaning people, making your opinoin of the truth subjective.

Are you in this group because you are serving God the way he wants you to serve Him or are you just serving the "group"?

You need to stand back from your experiences here and take a look at the whole picture. And there can be only 1 truth right? and you can only get this truth from an outside source which in turn would have to come from an all knowing being not from ones particular experience. Which I believe is the biblical God.

So take a look from the Holy book, read it in historical and present day context so then you will be able to answer peoples questions unbiased.

No offence intended leocon, just giving you another window to look through.

All the best,
God Bless,
Lorna
 
WalkerJ 1
 
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 09:19 am
leocon wrote:
Thanks for that. I never got this in my box!
Which E-mail are you using?


Still haven't heard back from you. What gives?
 
Jered
 
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 12:34 am
Leocon, let’s assume for the sake of argument that there’s nothing wrong with a woman sexually pleasuring a little boy.

How would you feel if your father claimed to be a prophet of God, yet had sexual relations with your sisters?

There is sufficient proof right on this site that David Berg had sexual relations with his daughter Faith and his granddaughter Merry (Mene), and also that he fantasized about sex with his stepdaughter Techi.

What about Berg’s other children? Aaron committed suicide, Faith is an insane alcoholic, and Deborah hates her father. If Ricky’s problems had nothing to do with his parents, why are / were almost all of Berg’s children screwed up?

You said you want to help people find personal closure. If you are sincere, I will send you an e-mail detailing the abuse I suffered and how it was directly linked to Berg and Zerby’s writings. My parents are also responsible, but they realized their mistakes and apologized, so I think I have found “closureâ€
 
Jack 2
 
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 12:48 am
Hey Jered,

You may know me from back in the fishing boat days (1998/1999 in Seattle off and on, I helped for Alan/Eman's business and would come back frequently afterwards till 2000 when I opened a second office for my business in Seattle). If you do know me or are one of the Mullen brothers (or know them) drop me a line.

Joe (Lumbroso)
 
Jered
 
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 06:02 am
Hi Joe -- I was on a boat with a Joe but I don't think it was you – my name was and is Jered.
 
WalkerJ 1
 
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 07:18 am
Jered wrote:
FYI, the fishing boats were actually a great place to meet exers in 2000 – I did the same season as Ricky and had 4 exers and 1 current member on my boat. However, because Ricky (unlike most of us) had no connections in the exer community, he missed the main hiring day and got on a real shitty boat, if I remember correctly there was only 1 exer with him.


When I said, "How much proof does it take to know that you don't get much contact with ex-members on a fishing boat?", I kept in mind the fact that Rick worked with at least one other ex-member, who, as it happens, is a childhood friend of mine from Switzerland. I met up with him a couple years ago when he lived about a 10 minute drive away from me.

This young man, however, could hardly be classified as a bitter ex-member. He's preferred to forget about the cult entirely.

I'll send you the letter from Peter and Maria by email. I'd post it on this forum, but I don't want it linked to my profile for now.
 
 

 
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