Cherub,

After reading your posts, I was starting to wonder if you were the same guy I knew from El Paso. Since you remember Elizabeth, it's got to be you. That was the second time we were in El Paso, after getting the boot from Mexico. The first time was 2 years earlier when we met Day. If memory doesn't totally fail me, I believe she was still a catacomber at the time.

Aren't your folks from El Paso? It seems like I remember going to their house with you and meeting at least your Mom. Remember that Christmas (1974)? We got up that morning and there was 5 inches of snow on the ground-- I thought that must be kind of rare for that town. I went outside and it didn't take long to get into a snowball fight with some of the kids around the neighborhood-- I think I was outnumbered about 4 to 1. Good thing they were just snowballs.

After Leaving El Paso, we did a stint in San Antonio til leaving for Brasil in May of '75. After 2 years in Brasil we came back to the US for awhile in Detroit and returned to South America, this time to Bolivia where we stayed for almost a year before returning to Brasil. This was in the latter half of 1978 with the RNR getting into full swing and things were getting really crazy in the COG. By January of '79 with our visas running out and the prospects of renewing them running slim, we had had enough. Got on the silver bird with our 3 young'uns and headed home. After 7 years of being out of touch with the real world-- what a readjustment! Thankfully, I was a ble to find a decent job and we could get on our feet without too much trauma. Fast-forward 27 years, we have four kids, ages 24-31 and two grandkids 3 & 5, two dogs and an otherwise empty nest. Well, that's the Clift's notes of my last 30 years.

Cherub, good to hear from you-- keep in touch, at least on this forum and if you want give me an e-mail address or something. I know from reading some of your postings that you're a bit leery of making contact; but as far as I'm concerned you're among friends. Look forward to hearing more from you.



Joe

Joe,
You always seemed to be such a compassionate and circumspect person. It still shows in your postings. The histories we have all made together and apart, during our time in TF, are fascinating to me. That's part of the draw athough, sometimes I cringe, thinking about those times, especially when I first joined, (being quite the piece of work I was). Those who took me under their wings I give so much credit to for the person I have become, (TF being solely the "means" by which our paths crossed... looking back.) Our intentions were good and that's our common ground, in reality. Anyway, all of that to say this, I am so glad to have known you at that time in my life, you made a difference.
Rachel

Rachel,

Nice to hear from you; I look forward to your posts. I don't remember you being "quite a piece of work" in any negative sense. It's funny how one remembers a person how they were at the time, even after 30+ years. I can still see you as a teenager, although I know that's unrealistic. If you were a bit rebellious, I guess that was typical of the times, but I always thought you were a sweet kid. Did I say kid? We were all kids then, really.

I e-mailed you the other day at the address you gave. Did you get it? Feel free to e-mail back anytime.

Hope to hear from you soon.


Joe


P.S.-- Do you know anything about Jasper & Love after El Paso?

Joe,
I haven't received an email from you, but it's probably the address I gave. I typed "at" instead of using the @ symbol, so that it wouldn't show up as an email address on the posting and then be hit with a bunch of spam. If you'd like you can either send a private message through this forum, or try the address again.
In either '74 or maybe '75, I heard that Jasper and Love were in Utrect, Netherlands (not sure of the city's spelling). Other than that, I haven't heard anything else about them. Jasper and Love picked me up hitchiking in El Paso, and a few days later I joined. I was so touched by their unconditional acceptance.
There is a particular incident I recall that still moves me. Agonizing over my "sins," I confided in Love that when I prayed at night, I feared that I wouldn't remember all of the bad things I'd done that day, or things that I didn't even know I'd done wrong and ask for forgivness. She showed me a verse in Psalms where David prayed "Cleanse Thou me from secret faults." That was such a relief and encouragement to me. It helped me to understand better the nature of God and His mercies.
However one might chose to see the Scriptures, I find hope and direction there, something TF has sorely missed and twisted, like so many religious groups who preceeded them. Pharisees and Inquisitors come to mind right off.
Jasper's guitar playing was great. He could get things jammin' couldn't he? You know, I think he is a Scorpio, too, intense and focused. I sure hope they have done okay.
Do you remember Artemis Centurion? He was a catacomber there in El Paso the same time I was. It's good recollecting. I've missed some really great people over the years.

Rachel

Rachel,

Sure, I remember Artemis; he was in the Army, stationed at Ft. Bliss-- quite a character. We had a few laughs. There was also Thaddeus; Navy lieutenant stationed at White Sands; a really good guy. I never knew anything further about either of them after Carla and I left for Mexico. I have a good Ft. Bliss story for you. Once, we were at Bliss witnessing (back in the days before litnessing, when we still cared about people's souls) and I ran into one of my high school classmates who was stationed there. At the time, he didn't really seem all that receptive to the Gospel, but we still had a good talk. In 1991, at my 20 year class reunion, I meet up with the same guy. He told me that he had gotten saved and thanked me for the time I took to speak with him that day at Ft. Bliss. Coulda knocked me over with a feather.

I believe I met your Mom on a few occasions at the old colony house. If memory serves me well she spoke with a marvelous Southern accent; Mississippi? Correct me if I'm wrong on that.

I'll PM you later. Bye for now.



Joe

Joe,
Oh yes, Thaddeus. Wow, I'm so glad you jarred my memory, these cobwebs are pesky little varmits and get in the way. Thaddeus was a really good guy, so sensible and down to earth.
That probably was a shocker when you met your high school classmate again. Isn't it good to see that all of our efforts weren't for nothing, in spite of ourselves and our misguided thinking.
You're right about Mom being from Mississippi. How amusing that you remembered her. (Of course, she's never been one to be overlooked, dismissed or forgotten. ) That's a part of motherhood, too, I think.
Do you remember James (River) from El Paso? He worked on and drove the bus for the Green Bus team. He was quiet, a little bit older than most of us, probably Happy's age.
Rachel

Rachel,

I don't recall a James during the first time we were at El Paso. We left for Mexico I think in Feb. of '73. You mentioned Happy; is that the same one who used to be called Joab? If so, I got to know him a little during our second sojourn in EP. He and Honey passed through there for a few days once. Something I just thought of; somewhere around here we have a photo of Carla and Honey with Liz, our eldest and their newest baby. They were both 6 months old at the time, born within a few days of each other.

During that time, we had another notable visitor come through. That would be Amminadab aka "Singing Sam" of "Music With Meaning" fame. There was a whole article written by him on an Ex-Family website. A really remarkable story. Anyway, he and his wife were based in Brasil recording music and we talked with him about our desire to go to Brasil. Somehow or other, he set it up and we wound up there in May of '75. We spent the next 2 years there. Now that was 2 years of ups and downs; nothing in between.

So, you thought it amusing that I remember your Mom? I always thought she was a very nice lady; something about Southern charm and elegance. I'm not so sure how enthusiastic she was, though about your involvement with TF. Our poor parents; we must have drove them nuts!

Gotta go for now. Will catch up with you later.



Joe

memory lane
now you guys are really taking for a walk down memory lane. We went to Brazil in 76 I think it was, and my daughter was born in Rio in Dec. 77. On the way to So. America we stopped in the "border base" of Laredo. I remember being there for a few days with my 3 little kids and using somebody's crib, etc. Were any of you there then?

Hi Acheik,

Speaking of walking down memory lane, it is nice to remember and catch up with some of the people we met during that previous "stroll." It's keeping it between the lines, avoiding potholes and sidestepping the booby traps where the real challenge seems to be.

The bus team stopped in Laredo for a few weeks before heading north to Dallas in the summer of '73. In Oct '74, I went to France and was in Europe til '78. Although we probably didn't meet back then, it's good to have met you through this site, now. (Your postings are always of interest. Your being a mother of 9, and still kicking, impresses me, an admirable legacy, and the insight you bring to this forum is so valuable.)

Joe,

When Happy and Honey came to EP, which must have been the spring of "73, he still went by Joab. Soon after that was when his name changed to Happy, if memory serves me correctly. Honey was such a beautiful woman. It seems that she told me, that before joining, she had won a beauty contest in California. (She and I must have been doing some of that "vain babbling" at the time. ) Helping care for their children, Zerubabel and Rachel, taught me so much about patience and consideration for others. It must have been difficult for them to have three children on the road, (Noah was a baby then).

Were you all still in EP when the band "Rainbow" came through the colony? I think they were from up in the northwest area. That was quite a musical treat. Yum.

Rachel

Gosh, Day - thanks for the kind comments. I'm blushing...

Fearless spunk is an appealing trait. You're welcome, Acheick.

Memory Lane
Rachel,

You're absolutely correct; Honey was quite attractive, not only physically, but in her demeanor as well. Thanks for jogging my memory regarding their kids' names. About the band Rainbow, I don't recall ever seeing them at EP.


Acheick,

We weren't in Laredo at the time you refer to although we also spent some "border base" time there for a couple of months in late '73 before heading back down to Mexico. However, we were in Brasil in '76; we were regional shepherds in the northernmost part of the country. If you were in Rio then I may have crossed paths with you once when I had to go to Rio for some real barn-burner meeting with Zadok & Palestina; No doubt you remember them. Did you know a guy from Mexico named Hebreos (Hebrews)? He was with us for a time in Guadalajara, Mex. He was one of the people of whom I can say that I have nothing but good memories. During our time in Brasil, we spent so much time in the North we were sort of out of touch with what was going on down south, although later in '78 we returned to Brasil after almost a year in Bolivia. At that time the RNR was beginning to rage out of out of control. Two of our kids were born in Brasil; one in Recife and one in Sao Paulo. Outside of the upper echelon leadership, our memories of the country are very pleasant. The people there were totally cool.

When you get a chance, tell me about the people you knew there, it may be I know some of them and just need my memory jogged.



Joe

You're obviously an American day.

That means something totally different to the people in UK.

Evanman,

Being American, or any nationality for that matter, often reveals itself in language and its translation; the unique nuances and perspectives of each. I confess, the dictionary I refer to is an "american" source. Assuming the word you have issue with is "spunk" since "fearless", "appealing" and "trait" are pretty much universal among English speakers, I offer what my references define it as: Spunk n. 1. Informal. Spirit; pluck. (and pluck is defined as "resourceful courage and daring in the face of difficulties; spirit.")

You called me on this once before and I still think Baalam's Butt is hilarious.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=spunk

I think definition #3 is what evanman is referring to. So what was it you said was appealing?

Re: Memory Lane


Hey, Joe! OK, let me think - my daughter was born in Dec. of 1977. That was in Rio. It must have actually been 77 when we were in Laredo because I had just become pregnant and didn't know it - so 9 mos before Dec. would have been around Feb. or March. of 77. We spent a couple of weeks in Mexico and then flew to Brazil. Of course I remember the jet set couple Zadok and Palestina. I can still see her walking away from our mandatory meetings (she was so privilidged as not to have to attend) - where Zadok had imprisoned us to listen to his never ending sermons - with her long hair swishing on her back and her nose in the air. They were a couple made for each other and for TF, they fit right in. Perfect jet set leader couple. I really disliked them.

I remember Benji and his wife, gosh can't remember her name. They had twins and he had taken the twins and she was on her own. They sent her up north somewhere. We stayed in the school in Rio for awhile and Jeremy and Fiona were there with their kids. We were sent to stay in some little row house in a part of town called Graujauau - or something like that - can't get the spelling. Jerry and Gentleness were running the place. That's where my daughter was born. We went to Sao Paulo after that with some people named Paolo and Dove. I used to be married to a guy named Gibeah and my name was Mercy. The RNR hit and a few months later we left to go back to the States. We were only in Brazil for about a year. I also remember another little house we stayed at with Ruth Gordon and her husband - the one who wrote her book. I had wished my husband had taken me out of TF the way her husband did. He's still in going strong.

hahaha - I just looked up the definition. I shall be ever so careful if I ever use that word around a Brit! hehehehe

Thanks for the heads up, ya'll. Okay then, how about "Fearless pluck is an appealing trait"? It sounds bloody British, too.

The "jet setters"
Acheick,

You cracked me up with the "jet-set" description of Z&P! I couldn't have said it any better. In my humble opinion, I mark that era as the time the work in Brasil and my own life started going to hell on a roller coaster. Do you remember a guy named Zered Wait? I knew him in Ellenville, NY. I heard once that he challenged Zadok in some meeting regarding the RNR; why aren't we electing our leaders all the way up and down the line as required by the RNR letters? The rest of the story goes that Zered was shortly thereafter sent out "pioneering" (more like exiled). That's some tale. Zered was a good guy, too. Once, in Ellenville he and I were on greeting duty and managed to break up a Ted Patrick attempted kidnapping of one of the gals. Zered got roughed up in the skirmish and we wound up with police there and all.

Looking back over the years, it's kind of hard to put all the time lines together, so doing the math, when you all got to Brasil, Carla and I were probably in Salvador or Recife. We went back to the US in april of '77 for a visit with our folks before going to Bolivia. I do remember meeting Jerry and Gentleness (did she go by the name Consuelo at one time?); they were real nice. You mentioned Ruth Gordon. Did she use the name Ruth in TF and sing in the band? If so I knew them, too.

After about a year in Bolivia, we came back to Brasil in '78, around Aug. or Sept. and were mostly in Sao Paulo were our third child was born. However, we did spend a few weeks in Rio, possibly in the Grajau house, the name rings a bell. Anyway wherever it was, Joash Crow was there and we used to light up the band equipment for some jam sessions. At the time, we had 2 kids, Elizabeth and Solomon.

Did you ever know a Brasilian couple named Tiago and Tabita? We spent alot of time with them in Northern Brasil; truly marvelous people. I wish I could get in touch with them.

All for now; got some "honey do's" to tend to. Stay in touch!



Joe

In my part of UK "Pluck" is another word for "Lung".

Lung used to be eaten here. i had it in portugal. When it is cooked it looks like liver, however it feels like sponge, as for the taste...Tasteless really--if you can keep it down that is.