The two types of goals

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manored
 
Reply Fri 26 Mar, 2010 07:17 am
@Pepijn Sweep,
Pepijn Sweep;143680 wrote:
[CENTER]:bigsmile:
So there are humans that count, and humans who don't...
[/CENTER]

Indeed. Did you revive the thread only to say this? =)
 
Pepijn Sweep
 
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 06:22 am
@manored,
The two types of goals: healthy one and destructive once
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 07:00 am
@manored,
manored;99952 wrote:
Initial note: Im not sure if this is the right forum, hope yes =)

Lately I have been thinking about what are the fundamental drives of people, and lately I also read about taoism (the way of thinking, not the religion), and it made an incredible amount of sense, but, yet, I did not feel even the least bit of will of trying it. That made me imagine that there are two types of goals:

*Chaos: Accomplish an objective in this world, have fun

*Order: Gain greater understanding and knowledge of the universe.

People seem to be at randow points between these, moving around and never being absolutely either.

I think then people think this life is good, they try to enjoy it. Then they think it is not, they try to transcend it.

Using myself as an example: Then I read about taoism, it did seem like it would be a good, enlightening idea to just try to slow down until all desires were eliminated and this world itself vanished into nothingness, and remain in that path forever. But that sounds soooo boring =)

P.s: I know naming it chaos and order make it sound kinda ridiculous, but thats how its impressed into my mind. I guess I have been watching too much anime lately =)

(Moderator edit: thread moved to more appropriate forum.jgw)
1) I really don't see how your definitin of chaos and order fits the bill.

2) how does understanding of the universe serve any purpose other than satisfying curiosity?
 
Pepijn Sweep
 
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 07:30 am
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;159938 wrote:
1) I really don't see how your definitin of chaos and order fits the bill.

2) how does understanding of the universe serve any purpose other than satisfying curiosity?


Deep understanding of the seasons gives great comfort in live. This wisdom you can pass on and be helpfull.

Deep understanding of alchemy brings oil-spills and radio-active waste.
 
manored
 
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 11:30 am
@Pepijn Sweep,
Pepijn Sweep;159923 wrote:
The two types of goals: healthy one and destructive once
Thats one way of looking at it, though destruction is not necessarly a bad thing.

HexHammer;159938 wrote:
1) I really don't see how your definitin of chaos and order fits the bill.
Chaos is to "just have fun" because having fun is very inespecific, and what gives or not fun changes a lot. Order is to "learn" because, well, then you learn you can organize and see patterns. But thats really just a way of adding poetry to it =)

HexHammer;159938 wrote:

2) how does understanding of the universe serve any purpose other than satisfying curiosity?
Understanding things allows you to know how they will behave, and perhaps even manipulate then.

Pepijn Sweep;159952 wrote:

Deep understanding of alchemy brings oil-spills and radio-active waste.
And tooth paste =)
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 11:41 am
@manored,
manored;160042 wrote:
Chaos is to "just have fun" because having fun is very inespecific, and what gives or not fun changes a lot. Order is to "learn" because, well, then you learn you can organize and see patterns. But thats really just a way of adding poetry to it =)

Understanding things allows you to know how they will behave, and perhaps even manipulate then.
This sounds very supersticious to me.

When children play, be it human kids or animal cubs ..etc, it is to prepare for adult life, sharpening reflexes, tactics and strategies for fight ..which is importaint both to kill animals and fight off competetors.
Also giving stregth, stimulate bone structure's streght and sinew.

Those who excersize their body alot have sharper relfexes and usually learn faster than those who sit still and doesn't work their body.

I don't see how astrology has any relation to medical knowledge, engineering or raising a child well.

Maybe poetry forum would be a better place.
 
manored
 
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 09:19 am
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;160049 wrote:
This sounds very supersticious to me.

When children play, be it human kids or animal cubs ..etc, it is to prepare for adult life, sharpening reflexes, tactics and strategies for fight ..which is importaint both to kill animals and fight off competetors.
Also giving stregth, stimulate bone structure's streght and sinew.

Those who excersize their body alot have sharper relfexes and usually learn faster than those who sit still and doesn't work their body.

I don't see how astrology has any relation to medical knowledge, engineering or raising a child well.

Maybe poetry forum would be a better place.
Well, I will put it in a more objective way for you:

Path 1: Do what you want in life

Path 2: Consider that you need a greater purpose in life and, to that end, search for a greater understanding of everything. Since we cant ever find the origin of all things, this search is eternal, though we may find satisfaction in certain points and revert to path 1.

Indeed path 2 is useless if you feel you already have a good purpose in life.
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 09:35 am
@manored,
I see many do as they want, go fishing, go to the bar, go to the movies ..etc, I don't really see that as chaos.

Imo I just think it's inherently a wrong idea.
 
manored
 
Reply Thu 6 May, 2010 08:40 am
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;160400 wrote:
I see many do as they want, go fishing, go to the bar, go to the movies ..etc, I don't really see that as chaos.

Imo I just think it's inherently a wrong idea.
I see that as chaos though. Life would be a lot more orderly without individuality. Not that individuality is a bad thing, nor order a good thing.
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Thu 6 May, 2010 08:47 am
@manored,
manored;160813 wrote:
I see that as chaos though. Life would be a lot more orderly without individuality. Not that individuality is a bad thing, nor order a good thing.
My good manored, it's Imo lacks psycology, I too have thought such thoughts when I was young, but learned that people need to relax, let go of stress by doing things that amuses them, make them forget pressing matters, that way the human mind can achive an equlibrilium, else too many will get high blood pressure, which will cause forgetfulness/absinmindedness (dunno correct medical term in english), insomnia ..etc, many bad side effects.

Therefore humans must relax and enjoy themselfs, to avoid chaos from stress => mental illnesses.
 
Pepijn Sweep
 
Reply Thu 6 May, 2010 08:48 am
@manored,
Chaos is Healthy >

System needs Chaos

Reconstruction
 
manored
 
Reply Sat 8 May, 2010 11:16 am
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;160814 wrote:
My good manored, it's Imo lacks psycology, I too have thought such thoughts when I was young, but learned that people need to relax, let go of stress by doing things that amuses them, make them forget pressing matters, that way the human mind can achive an equlibrilium, else too many will get high blood pressure, which will cause forgetfulness/absinmindedness (dunno correct medical term in english), insomnia ..etc, many bad side effects.

Therefore humans must relax and enjoy themselfs, to avoid chaos from stress => mental illnesses.
When did I say otherwise?

I said it was chaotic, I did not say it was bad.
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Sat 8 May, 2010 11:18 am
@manored,
manored;161782 wrote:
When did I say otherwise?

I said it was chaotic, I did not say it was bad.
Then define chaotic, it seems very unrelating to what you describe.
 
manored
 
Reply Sat 8 May, 2010 11:31 am
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;161783 wrote:
Then define chaotic, it seems very unrelating to what you describe.
Lacking in order
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Sat 8 May, 2010 11:50 am
@manored,
manored;161787 wrote:
Lacking in order
Seems like a form of slang that you are applying to the word.
 
manored
 
Reply Sun 9 May, 2010 12:52 pm
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;161794 wrote:
Seems like a form of slang that you are applying to the word.
As far as I know, that is the meaning of chaos, and I am not modifying it. What meaning you believe "chaos" has?

I found a few online dictionaries that seem to agree with me:

Chaos - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
Chaos | Define Chaos at Dictionary.com
chaos - definition of chaos by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Sun 9 May, 2010 03:01 pm
@manored,
manored;162181 wrote:
As far as I know, that is the meaning of chaos, and I am not modifying it. What meaning you believe "chaos" has?

I found a few online dictionaries that seem to agree with me:

Chaos - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
Chaos | Define Chaos at Dictionary.com
chaos - definition of chaos by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
What those people do, is in an orderly manner doing what they like to do, that has nothing to do with chaos.

You are looking too closely and thereby can't distinct the difference between orderly fashion and chaos.

Riot/anarchy is chaos, a traffic jam is chaos, a company nearing it's deadline often end in chaos.
 
manored
 
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 09:22 am
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;162200 wrote:
What those people do, is in an orderly manner doing what they like to do, that has nothing to do with chaos.

You are looking too closely and thereby can't distinct the difference between orderly fashion and chaos.

Riot/anarchy is chaos, a traffic jam is chaos, a company nearing it's deadline often end in chaos.
I disagree. People dont coordinate their desires with those of others, if they did, we wouldnt have traffic jams.
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 10:41 am
@manored,
manored;162405 wrote:
I disagree. People dont coordinate their desires with those of others, if they did, we wouldnt have traffic jams.
A traffic jam in itself isn't a desire, so I don't see your point.
 
manored
 
Reply Tue 11 May, 2010 07:38 am
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;162431 wrote:
A traffic jam in itself isn't a desire, so I don't see your point.
If it was, thats then I would have no point. A traffic jam isnt a desire, but it happens anyway, because people dont coordinate their desires to avoid it.

In other words: People dont adjust their will so that it will not interfere with the will of others and thus allow all to carry out their wills. Sometimes they do to a certain extent, but not on a global scale.
 
 

 
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