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jihad is as relevant today as it ever was in history. the conditions as to when it is mandated have been clearly defined, but the methods of pursuing it are open to interpretation according to context. jihad need not be violent. it can be achieved through application of economic principles, it can be as simple a matter as living as an example of what one believes in or refusal to compromise principles of ethics...sometimes the most courageous course is speaking the truth. consider the possibilities...

while we murder and maim, running roughshod over the earth,
how can we claim to love God? it's easy to blame someone else
and cry over all his transgressions. but if we try to examine
our own actions, how this grief will multiply, crushing every false belief.

the tiny tears flowing today would be lost in an ocean of anguish.

what have we done? why do we kill each other? what ignorant vandals!
destroying the art of creation we tear ourselves apart,

forgetting we share one Father. He must feel every wound we inflict.
from the dust of our destruction, His eyes would be burning. how many
more eons before we learn? religions are lamps lit by one sacred flame,
yet we haggle over them in God's name.

we need a jihad for peace; amnesty without surrender, total ceasefire.
holy war is an oxymoron. fear propagates evil. we are all victims now.
love creates and heals, light dispels darkness and hate. what good
is humanity without brotherhood?

@salima,

Who wrote this?...............

@salima,

How is jihad any different than the crusades? I see them as the same thing. Instead of swords they have ak47s.

@Krumple,

Krumple;90208 wrote:

How is jihad any different than the crusades?

Jihad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Crusades would be considered jihad. But so would asceticism. Jihad's popular meaning in the West is only one interpretation -- it is not by definition holy war.

@salima,

I guess those pictures of ten year olds with the green headbands holding guns is also just one interpretation as well? Or the proud mother who shows a video of her son that is preparing for a suicide raid. While she watches the video she is saying praise allah knowing that her son killed a bunch of innocent civilian jews who were peacefully eating their lunch in an open market cafe.

@Krumple,

Krumple;90220 wrote:

I guess those pictures of ten year olds with the green headbands holding guns is also just one interpretation as well?

Yes, that is one use of the word jihad. But doctrinally and theologically jihad does not specifically mean holy war -- it never has. It's just a word, and like many religious words (like sin and like salvation in Christianity, like dukkha and nirvana in Buddhism), the word can be appropriately used in varied ways. Are you aware that the word jihad can and has been used in peaceful contexts as well? Do you care?

@salima,

i dont know the exact conditions prevailing at the time of the crusades as compared to when the prophet was alive. but it doesnt make sense to analyze that, what is in the world today is far more meaningful. war may even have been justified in that world, but to my way of thinking it is obsolete and needs to be put behind us. but krumple, it is a good point and noteworthy that there are more than the followers of any one religion that have set out making the same error.

today's world is in need of as much correction as that of the past, but i personally dont believe at this stage of our evolution that violence is ever the only answer nor is it ever the best answer. there are so many other options that may bear fruit, and some take every bit as much courage to attempt. jihad is not meant to conquer, but to unite-it was never proposed as a means of converting others to one's point of view.

that's all i was trying to say. the poem i wrote isnt any great literary accomplishment, it is only a means of expression. actually i wrote it some time ago specifically to express my sorrow and numbness over the shia and sunni conflict. mosques are being bombed during friday prayers by people who claim to be muslim. this is a travesty and a tragedy as well.

but religion per se as an institution is taking the brunt of the anger and become the scapegoat for all the world's ills for some people. it is in actuality the ignorance, lack of understanding and misappropriation of religion that has caused the deaths of uncountable numbers of mankind. if religion were to be obliterated from the face of the earth, human beings would continue to discriminate, exclude and slaughter each other over any little difference they can find.

---------- Post added 09-15-2009 at 10:51 AM ----------

Krumple;90220 wrote:

I guess those pictures of ten year olds with the green headbands holding guns is also just one interpretation as well? Or the proud mother who shows a video of her son that is preparing for a suicide raid. While she watches the video she is saying praise allah knowing that her son killed a bunch of innocent civilian jews who were peacefully eating their lunch in an open market cafe.

yes krumple, it is exactly that, more correctly called a misinterpretation. it is not attributable to religion per se, but to misunderstanding, ignorance, any number of other attributes possessed by the human spirit.

@salima,

salima;90226 wrote:

that's all i was trying to say. the poem i wrote isnt any great literary accomplishment, it is only a means of expression.

What a pity it is that your self-expression here in a creative writing thread has been co-opted by someone trying to drag arguments in here from the philosophy threads. Your writing has engendered discussion - but if you don't want the same old threads to pop up here I'd be happy to delete the ensuing conversation if you wish.

@Aedes,

Aedes;90228 wrote:

What a pity it is that your self-expression here in a creative writing thread has been co-opted by someone trying to drag arguments in here from the philosophy threads. Your writing has engendered discussion - but if you don't want the same old threads to pop up here I'd be happy to delete the ensuing conversation if you wish.

no problem, aedes, let it run. in fact, literature can be a means of jihad, dont you think? i think it has even been a means to revolution in the past...

@Aedes,

Aedes;90228 wrote:

What a pity it is that your self-expression here in a creative writing thread has been co-opted by someone trying to drag arguments in here from the philosophy threads. Your writing has engendered discussion - but if you don't want the same old threads to pop up here I'd be happy to delete the ensuing conversation if you wish.

Why? Deleting these responses would do a disservice to the whole poem. There are about a dozen threads all on the same topic, so why start with this one?

On a side note I want to mention the swastika. I know this might sound off topic but I am making a parallel here. Anyways, early Buddhist temples bear the swastika but as we more widely know that the German Nazis also used it. While I was heavily studying Buddhism, I befriended a monk that was on quite a bit of a jihad himself if you will. I know it sounds funny because Buddhist generally do not feel any need to convert or preach to other non-buddhists. But he had a very particular method to get people talking. One day he invited me to a Bon celebration and I got to see him in action. There were of course quite a few christian Japanese at this event even though Bon is traditionally not christian. One guy happened to notice the swastika on a bag he was carrying and abruptly had to interrogate him about it. The thing is the man asked since the germans had such an influence of "negativity" why would anyone want to bear a swastika? So he simply responded by saying it was used by Buddhists long before the Germans used it. But that wasn't good enough response and he had to add that it is distasteful to have anything to do with the swastika.

So what is my point? Perhaps it is ignorant to misinterpret the meaning of something. But you must also realize that those who utilize it in their own way the new meaning will absorb that. If the meaning was a good one it can just as easily be polluted. How can you tell (after that when someone uses the word jihad) their meaning?

@Krumple,

Krumple;90235 wrote:

Why? Deleting these responses would do a disservice to the whole poem. There are about a dozen threads all on the same topic, so why start with this one?

On a side note I want to mention the swastika. I know this might sound off topic but I am making a parallel here. Anyways, early Buddhist temples bear the swastika but as we more widely know that the German Nazis also used it. While I was heavily studying Buddhism, I befriended a monk that was on quite a bit of a jihad himself if you will. I know it sounds funny because Buddhist generally do not feel any need to convert or preach to other non-buddhists. But he had a very particular method to get people talking. One day he invited me to a Bon celebration and I got to see him in action. There were of course quite a few christian Japanese at this event even though Bon is traditionally not christian. One guy happened to notice the swastika on a bag he was carrying and abruptly had to interrogate him about it. The thing is the man asked since the germans had such an influence of "negativity" why would anyone want to bear a swastika? So he simply responded by saying it was used by Buddhists long before the Germans used it. But that wasn't good enough response and he had to add that it is distasteful to have anything to do with the swastika.

So what is my point? Perhaps it is ignorant to misinterpret the meaning of something. But you must also realize that those who utilize it in their own way the new meaning will absorb that. If the meaning was a good one it can just as easily be polluted. How can you tell (after that when someone uses the word jihad) their meaning?

you are right about the swastika, it is as old as the vedic traditions, seen all over india-it is painted on houses, cars, people's foreheads, and many of these people have never heard the word nazi.

and your point is very good. if no one stands up and explains the true meaning of jihad, and that these jihadis today are totally in the wrong about the theory and purpose of it, how else can it be confronted except with more ignorance and violence?

as a matter of fact, xris brought up in one of those other threads the point that if the majority of muslims do not condone acts of violence and terror, why are they silent? and to be honest, i dont know the answer.

aedes also was right in saying that muslims do speak about it among themselves. i can vouch for the fact that all-not the majority, but all-the muslims that i have ever spoken to unequivocally reject using terror and violence and bitterly condemn the killing of 'innocent' people. they lament the fact that their faith has been highjacked and dont know what to do about it. certain attempts have been made at communication to bring about understanding, but seem to always fail.

hey, krumple-i think we know each other pretty good by now. you got the idea! i could have called this thread 'brotherhood' but no one would have responded, most likely...someone said the pen is mightier than the sword. i hope so...

@Krumple,

Krumple;90235 wrote:

Why? Deleting these responses would do a disservice to the whole poem. There are about a dozen threads all on the same topic, so why start with this one?

Because it's hers. It's up to her, keeping it open is fine -- but this is NOT a general philosophy section of the forum -- it's for creative writing -- and we have a much shorter leash in here.

---------- Post added 09-15-2009 at 06:41 AM ----------

salima;90251 wrote:

if the majority of muslims do not condone acts of violence and terror, why are they silent?

We never hear a majority of anything. Many Muslims live in poor countries, and their access to internet philosophy forums is limited -- so we do not hear their voices.

@salima,

The swastica in India was going the same way as the earths rotation and means harmony but the nazi swastica is going the opposite direction and means the opposite of harmony..Humans hijacking a peaceful image again.

@salima,

The original thread was started in a way that would initiate conversation so deleting the comments would not be appropriate. Also, this should be moved to the Islam forum for further discussion.

@Justin,

Justin;90281 wrote:

The original thread was started in a way that would initiate conversation so deleting the comments would not be appropriate. Also, this should be moved to the Islam forum for further discussion.

i find it easier to say things in poetry sometimes, but would rather get feedback on what it is i said and what thoughts came to mind for the readers than my ability to compose or execute a poem. which is why i posted most of my poetry to blogs.

i know a lot of people dont read poetry, but i wanted to introduce the subject in a positive, non-combative way. and in this case i thought the subject matter needed a shorter leash...thanks, aedes for the catch phrase. so it seemed the best place for it

anyway, i said about all there is to say on the subject as far as concerns those outside the faith. it is the people who are professing to be muslim that most need to be educated about it, and it is for them to study the qur'an and get a grip on what exactly jihad is, when it is necessary, and the means available to observe it. ultimately the leaders who are using this as a means to fight their own agenda need to have the power of their words deflated and exposed for what they are-false.

@salima,

But in the mean time these leaders kill innocent people?

@salima,

Salima, the poetry, just as that found in the Qu'ran, is beautiful and I appreciate the addition.

How do you feel Islam should reply to the misuse of faith to cause such havok in the world (obviously speaking of the extremists currently bombing all over the world)?

@Icon,

Icon;91482 wrote:

Salima, the poetry, just as that found in the Qu'ran, is beautiful and I appreciate the addition.

How do you feel Islam should reply to the misuse of faith to cause such havok in the world (obviously speaking of the extremists currently bombing all over the world)?

Islam as an entity cannot reply as far as i can see because there is no one spokesperson, as there is in, for example, catholicism. but with the growing number of people in america who are voicing their opinion that some of what their government has done is unethical as compared to what is published in the media or brought to the awareness of the world at large, i think it will be a long time before anyone is willing to listen. the voice of moderation, sanity, logic, tends to go unnoticed and the hysterical screaming of those overwhelmed by anger and fear makes headlines.

i am aware of many attempts by muslim groups and leaders at educating the public as to the truth of islam, which seem to have no effect. but it is perhaps more important to educate those within the faith that they are being used, exploited, deceived and robbed. i am of the opinion that the best thing any individual muslim can do is to live up to what their faith expects of them and by the example of their own lives to show what islam is. can we be held responsible for anything more than that?

everyone has an obligation to try to learn the truth and live it as well.

these problems might make more sense if they were not broken down into little pieces, into various disputes among nations, civil wars, violence between races, religions and social groups. any attempt so far to combat it has been managing symptoms rather than a curing the disease oriented approach. the one thing in common is violence, brother against brother. it must be ended everywhere. at the top levels of all powerful countries is a military mindset; might makes right. this reminds me of the parent who beats the daylights out of their child for fighting with their siblings-while screaming 'i'll teach you not to hit your brother'.

@xris,

xris;90255 wrote:

The swastica in India was going the same way as the earths rotation and means harmony but the nazi swastica is going the opposite direction and means the opposite of harmony..Humans hijacking a peaceful image again.

Not really sure where you are going with this? If I were to instigate genocide under the flag of a kitten, the symbol in and of istelf would still be arbitrary. Are you mad that the nazis didn't make their own symbol? or that they co-opted someone else's and tarnished it? The swastika is a fairly universal symbol. native americans traditionally used it, so did aboriginals. In fact it or its various derivatives are some of the most common symbols found by prehistoric archaeologists. Doesn't it make sense to co-opt a fairly universal symbol for your movement? You think Himmler and Geobles were sitting around one day saying, "hey lets piss off the Buddhists"?

@GoshisDead,

GoshisDead;91565 wrote:

Not really sure where you are going with this? If I were to instigate genocide under the flag of a kitten, the symbol in and of istelf would still be arbitrary. Are you mad that the nazis didn't make their own symbol? or that they co-opted someone else's and tarnished it? The swastika is a fairly universal symbol. native americans traditionally used it, so did aboriginals. In fact it or its various derivatives are some of the most common symbols found by prehistoric archaeologists. Doesn't it make sense to co-opt a fairly universal symbol for your movement? You think Himmler and Geobles were sitting around one day saying, "hey lets piss off the Buddhists"?

I'm not going anywhere with this are you paranoid? Did i make any comment that inferred your attention? I made the comment that the Indian swastika revolved the opposite way and the Nazis turned a symbol of peace into a symbol of horror.
Nazi Swastika or Ancient Symbol?

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