We cannot escape absurdity!

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BrightNoon
 
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2009 07:40 pm
@The Shadow,
Life is absurd because it has no external justification. There is no reason for us to be alive, nor any absolute meaning in our lives. The only remedy for this is to deny the absurdity, which I unfortunately am not stupid enough to be able to do, or to accept and revel in it. Action for the sake of action, living for the sake of living.

What is the meaning of life?

There is no meaning.

So what?
 
Tonfish
 
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2009 03:11 am
@BrightNoon,
BrightNoon wrote:

What is the meaning of life?

There is no meaning.

So what?


So only our animal instincts make us live day by day? So we are not different from any other living thing on earth, like cockroaches or grass. Yeah we have consciuosness, and memory, we can remember the past, we can make complex decisions based on our so called brains and feelings. But that's irrevelant if we ask the question: why do we live. Seems like we are just any other animal or plant on this earth. Or so you say? I'm curious, and sorry if this was off topic :/
 
Khethil
 
Reply Fri 1 May, 2009 03:37 am
@Tonfish,
Where did this notion come from that 'meaning' can only legitimately arise from an external force? Don't we, even if we subscribe to deistic notions, still create our own meaning by our choices, outlook and conscious perspective?

Our nihilism knows no bounds: Of course we're just another creature on this planet and our differences are just as stark as the difference between other species. If we allow our ego to bloat to the point that the heart insists there "must be something greater" in store for us we condemn ourselves to perpetual disillusionment.

Absurdism (as I understand it) is likely the case (as my beliefs and perceptions lie). So what.. enjoy and revel in your life - it's your birthright. Know that we construct our own life's meaning anyway. If I believe it comes from elsewhere it has no more, nor no less, value than if I don't (which is all in our heads anyway - bringing us back to self definition)

I think our solution to this issue of 'meaning' lies in shedding this notion that any greater 'meaning' exists; that we take life as it is and be grateful. Somehow, somewhere we got duped into thinking that life only has 'meaning' if it continues and/or has such meaning given by 'greater' universal forces.

Thanks
 
hue-man
 
Reply Fri 1 May, 2009 07:23 am
@BrightNoon,
BrightNoon wrote:
Life is absurd because it has no external justification. There is no reason for us to be alive, nor any absolute meaning in our lives. The only remedy for this is to deny the absurdity, which I unfortunately am not stupid enough to be able to do, or to accept and revel in it. Action for the sake of action, living for the sake of living.

What is the meaning of life?

There is no meaning.

So what?


It's true that there is no objective meaning or purpose to life or reality. I also agree that the nature of existence is absurd, but should that be the final word? Should we not hope and strive to overcome our pitfalls and misfortunes, psychologically or physiologically?

It is quite clear that human beings are free to choose their purpose in life, one that is beyond the primal survivalist way of life dictated by nature.
 
firavia
 
Reply Sat 2 May, 2009 03:57 pm
@Why phil,
the reason is the "why" we ask , the why is the "fear " we have , the fear is the "instinct" we have , the instinct is the "tool" we are allife , the "tool" is the reason of "why" we ask.
 
parker pyne
 
Reply Mon 29 Jun, 2009 10:43 pm
@Why phil,
Meaning exists. It is simply an arbitrary value we, as individuals, project onto something cold and unfamiliar. I think that's what Camus was getting at; that absurdity lies in the eternal human struggle to personalise the universe.

Though to be honest I don't see much merit in that label. To constantly title things as absurd is absurd and counterproductive. There's probably a huge evolutionary advantage in our tendency to see things as meaningful - it allows us to prioritise the objects in our surroundings, things we can discard, things we can cherish.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sat 11 Jul, 2009 12:41 am
@parker pyne,
parker pyne;73531 wrote:
Meaning exists. It is simply an arbitrary value we, as individuals, project onto something cold and unfamiliar. I think that's what Camus was getting at; that absurdity lies in the eternal human struggle to personalise the universe.

Though to be honest I don't see much merit in that label. To constantly title things as absurd is absurd and counterproductive. There's probably a huge evolutionary advantage in our tendency to see things as meaningful - it allows us to prioritise the objects in our surroundings, things we can discard, things we can cherish.


Maybe we cannot escape absurdity, but that does not mean we have to create it, or perpetuate it .

The meaning of what is "an arbitrary value"? If the meaning of dark clouds is that it will rain, that isn't arbitrary. It is the result of observation.
 
GoshisDead
 
Reply Sat 11 Jul, 2009 08:50 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;76563 wrote:
Maybe we cannot escape absurdity, but that does not mean we have to create it, or perpetuate it .

The meaning of what is "an arbitrary value"? If the meaning of dark clouds is that it will rain, that isn't arbitrary. It is the result of observation.


If absurdity is inevitable in all things, isn't it absurd to try to not make it or perpetuate it? If it is inevitable why not strive for the absurd?
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sat 11 Jul, 2009 09:59 pm
@GoshisDead,
GoshisDead;76744 wrote:
If absurdity is inevitable in all things, isn't it absurd to try to not make it or perpetuate it? If it is inevitable why not strive for the absurd?


I would not know. I don't think absurdity is inevitable at all. Although absurd people are, unfortunately.
 
GoshisDead
 
Reply Sun 12 Jul, 2009 12:35 am
@kennethamy,
S'alright, I was just being a punk, I'm pretty much a non absurdist myself.
 
richrf
 
Reply Sun 12 Jul, 2009 08:21 am
@GoshisDead,
Camus posed the question, Why live?

For him, this was the primary question to answer in all of philosophy. I think he has a point. However, while I think his question is very strong, I think the possible answers he suggests are weak.

But living certainly seems absurd with some overarching view of life and death. Religions attempt to provide these views, though for me they are wanting, since they still do not provide the answer to Why live?

Rich
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Mon 13 Jul, 2009 08:41 am
@richrf,
richrf;76797 wrote:
Camus posed the question, Why live?

For him, this was the primary question to answer in all of philosophy. I think he has a point. However, while I think his question is very strong, I think the possible answers he suggests are weak.

But living certainly seems absurd with some overarching view of life and death. Religions attempt to provide these views, though for me they are wanting, since they still do not provide the answer to Why live?

Rich


His answer seems to have been, "why not?", on the grounds that there is no point in doing anything, not even committing suicide.
 
richrf
 
Reply Mon 13 Jul, 2009 08:49 am
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;76992 wrote:
His answer seems to have been, "why not?", on the grounds that there is no point in doing anything, not even committing suicide.


Camus, in his essay, The Myth of Sisyphus, suggests that all is well and to imaging Sisyphus happy in his toils of life. This I feel may suffice for Camus. As for myself, I see a single physical life as just one part of a larger cycle of exploration, learning, and creating. All for the amusement of doing so. Though sometimes it doesn't feel all that amusing - but neither is are games of football or chess. But that is the nature of games.

Rich
 
Anais
 
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 05:14 am
@Why phil,
Quote:

"How do you know there are no reasons and thus no reasons behind those reasons, how do you know that?
Thanks."
I am largely in the belief that we do not "know" anything.

However this does lead me to contemplate, that without such knowlege, to be left with such mystery and ambiguity concerning the fundamental nature of existence is in itself absurd.

Quote:
" We can escape absurdity. We can choose to be ignorant. "
Do we not create meaning as a reaction to the absurdity of existence?

Does absurdity require acknowledgement to exist?

Quote:
"However, absurdism carries with it a pessimistic tone."
But does it really?

I will concede that it may initially appear so, in the same vein as Sarte's "condemned to be free."
"condemned" to define the inescapable nature, of the freedom from meaning and purpose, eg absurdism.

This does pose a weighty responsibility, however again your reaction to this is entirely your own.

I think the devistation of this notion is merely exasperated by a life lived passively.

It seems after reading this entire thread, we *are* debating the positive and negative implications of "absurdity" despite the varying denials.

Absurdity, freedom from meaning...it is all a blank canvas to me. Do as you will.

I am, have brain, will use.
 
FireWalkWithMe
 
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2009 03:37 pm
@Victor Eremita,
Victor Eremita;58879 wrote:
Technically, there's one way one can escape absurdity; that is to die.


The process of dying is probably absurd...
And depending on how you view death and a possible afterlife, the thereafter may also be absurd! Can you imagine?
Laughing
 
richrf
 
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2009 05:23 pm
@FireWalkWithMe,
FireWalkWithMe;78680 wrote:
The process of dying is probably absurd...
And depending on how you view death and a possible afterlife, the thereafter may also be absurd! Can you imagine?
Laughing


Hi there,

Yes, it all seems rather absurd and laughable until I get into piss poor sadness dumps. Smile

Anyway, the way I make sense of it is seeing it as part of a continuum of the soul that is constantly expanding its awareness and evolving through many lives. What is the soul learning? Well, it is kind of like a baby looking into a mirror. The baby is amused at the sight if itself. Smile

Cya,
Rich
 
salima
 
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2009 06:26 pm
@richrf,
richrf;78701 wrote:
Hi there,

Yes, it all seems rather absurd and laughable until I get into piss poor sadness dumps. Smile

Anyway, the way I make sense of it is seeing it as part of a continuum of the soul that is constantly expanding its awareness and evolving through many lives. What is the soul learning? Well, it is kind of like a baby looking into a mirror. The baby is amused at the sight if itself. Smile

Cya,
Rich


i am not sure the baby knows it is looking at itself...isnt that part of the absurdity of it all!
 
richrf
 
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2009 08:20 pm
@salima,
salima;78720 wrote:
i am not sure the baby knows it is looking at itself...isnt that part of the absurdity of it all!


Yes. The baby is looking and smiling. Amusing absurdity.

Rich
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Thu 23 Jul, 2009 06:42 pm
@richrf,
richrf;76998 wrote:
Camus, in his essay, The Myth of Sisyphus, suggests that all is well and to imaging Sisyphus happy in his toils of life. This I feel may suffice for Camus. As for myself, I see a single physical life as just one part of a larger cycle of exploration, learning, and creating. All for the amusement of doing so. Though sometimes it doesn't feel all that amusing - but neither is are games of football or chess. But that is the nature of games.

Rich

We cannot escape absurdity!
As Priscilla Lane said to John Alden, "speak for yourself, John".
 
glasstrees
 
Reply Sat 1 Aug, 2009 03:58 pm
@The Shadow,
I think its kind of like. Were being given a show on a televission. You can get caught up and be like WAIT A MINUET! THIS IS ONLY A TV! WAIT! HOW DOES IT WORK? and trying to figure it out. But thats really not the point. The point is that you should be watching and getting what you can out of the show. Yes look into the nature of it to the extent that you realise you are not in the show if you start to think the people in the show are real. But We have no chance in Figgureing out how the show works. Only phenomenon that appear in the show. But that's only usefull to the extent of helping us interact with the show.
 
 

 
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