The trinity

@vajrasattva,

Sapiens Fossor;104185 wrote:

God the son is the finite expression of God the father because God the son is the manifestation of the God the father in human form.

In all due respect no it is not. Man wrote it; man assumed it! Because of our sinew we assumed autonomy! Hence "MANKIND". It is not mankind, it is humankind, is it not? To assume only one from our perspective as it relates to God, man creates an imbalance. Yes, God is one but the all of everything and there is a balance to all that God is and woman is a part of that balance.

How you are correct is in the relationship, yet, misunderstood. God,man/Earth,woman is the balance. To assume God/man/all, seriously leaves a big ass gap. Man, yes is that life giver; woman is the receiver. It is in that universal paradigm man/woman we have life. In that union we continue. Man is to give, serve and protect woman, not the other way around. In gratitude, she nourishes, loves and honors his efforts in that in her domain....................................the earth. This is HER home. When we finally get it right and understand that, it become OURS, and God smiles. Life has begun. 1 anno domini. Hell, we haven't begun to live yet, we are still trying to survive. Until we do, our children will create a hell on Earth. You can count on it.

Yes, you are right the trinity is man/woman/child; until we get that right, any notion of applying sense to the other manifestations of trilogy will be meaningless.

Sapiens Fossor;104185 wrote:

Why manifest in human form? Because we.......

STOP! Here you are creating a paradox. You say we but you are endeavoring to explain, as it relates to "man", as one. Big mistake. There is very little in the bible in regards to woman....................at all. She is just an afterthought, a rib and a whore here to "serve" man. What a crock! It is that thinking that has caused all our problems. The competition of the sexes, the imbalance between the heaven and the earth.

Sapiens Fossor;104185 wrote:

.....can relate to it and understand it but at the same time He is the perfect human being....

A bit bias, don't you think? As it relates to God......yes; man..............no!
If man were alone, case closed. There is no thought of perfection. He would end...............end of story. It is man's solitary thinking that has got US into so much God Damned trouble.

As I have noted on more than one occasion, god didn't create man in his image, man created god in his. Oops, big mistake.

Sapiens Fossor;104185 wrote:

........that we can never be but we attempt flawlessness like Him only to fail so that by failing we shall fall in the mud of sin to be made clean and lifted up by the hands that made us.

How can you BE, without SHE? How can we understand flawless? We don't have a clue as to what perfections is all about. We are not flawed, we just don't have any notion of what perfection is in it's entirety and for that matter, neither does God. That is our continuum to seek it; what ever it is. We will never reach it for if that were the case...............it all would end, wouldn't it.

Ah, many think that and that too, is a big problem. We don't fail, we just haven't understood what is right, yet. Hell, we just got here, what do you expect? Like children run amok. We are adults, just contaminated kids.

dan b;114511 wrote:

Human beings were created in a trinity (man,woman,child) into a trinitarian world...

Good, agreed so far...............

dan b;114511 wrote:

......(be, do, have)....

Oops! Exactly what do you mean............HAVE? You seem to think we own this Earth? No..........way..........in..........hell!!! And hell is what we are going through because we think we do. It is our most precious gift and it is to be shared by all who live here and those who don't want to believe that....................won't! At least in any way we know of.

dan b;114511 wrote:

...and now continue starting, changing and stopping each activity they do. It's always a beginning, middle and an end to each action, and we're trapped in the past, present and the future. So you would think that a "Holy Trinity" would definitely be appropriate to fit with our world.

See above!

dan b;114511 wrote:

GOD the Creator, the Father, created this physical world of elements, and life forms. When we mentally conceive of thoughts about this perspective we are in the "Father Perspective."

We also think God....the creator...... To assume that would force man to assume there to be "nothing" before. Nothing is a useless term we created. Simply because we don't know it all so we assume a "none existence". We have no conception of what nothing is! We think we can find it and we keep finding more. Ha! We create, with God's help, without God, we create hell. You will have to read all my posts to understand what I am saying here.

dan b;114511 wrote:

The SON perspective is experienced when we view our lives as part of history, whether our own personal 70 odd years in the world or Civilizations 7000 years. The historical perspective often occupies a third of our mental conceptions.

You think us civil? We have reached that in 7000 years? Man and his brilliant self deems the universe is 14 billion years old. Now if that is true, if you would, put that into perspective with our history that we can recall and please tell me what "civil" is?

dan b;114511 wrote:

The HOLY SPIRT can only be attained after the original physical creature has gone through and experienced a good 40 years of his life on earth. The Sun in Genesis is created on the 4th day. Jesus christ the son arrrived on earth exactly 39 centuries after Adam in 4000BC. His vision resurrected to us after 4 millenniums. Anyway, sorry for being so words. but theres a lot to the HOLY TRINITY! dan b

Dan, don't apologize my friend. It can get confusing. We are here in this forum to help each other in any way we can. When we can do that, hopefully we can tie up those loose ends and find meaning to it all. I can only hope I have helped you. I am not asking for you to immediately come to understand all that I have offered nor am I asking you to believe it. You have your thoughts as do I and in those exchanges we can, one day, blend them together for a common good for all.

We are all in this together and I can only hope all will be a part of that?

William

@vajrasattva,

We never see things as they are, and never see all of a thing... We see what we can conceive... If we see a square, or see a sphere, our minds fill in the unseen from experience... When we look at God, whether powerful or weak, good, or evil; what we see is a measure of our needs, and we fill out the far end of God with out wants...

@Fido,

Hello again,
And so we talk along. This is what our minds are for.

Man-heaven, Woman-earth And so it is written that God created the "heaven and the earth." (Adam and Eve) Without earth heaven floats in space not knowing up or down, existence or purpose ect. Without heaven earth gets not the water from the sky for her children. In some 3d world societies the males leave the familys and the woman gets no food for her children. So when god first created Mankind "male and female created he them."Gen.1;27
Eve was no afterthought of God, but a necessity for Adam yes. A male cannot live without a female and they both cannot be entierly happy if they don't have children. That is the law of the human matrimonial condition. So the bible expects everyone who reads it to see this. The Bible isn't hocus-pocus. Only to those who don't yearn for righteousness enough to actually reallywant to understand it.
Civilization meanwhile is the outcome of eating of the "tree of knowledge of good and evil." So civilization has brough good and evel. God said it would be a problem if we ate from it! We wanted to try anyway. Isn't that the way kids are.
But it was the people after Adam and Eve, the ones who began to think with words who invented and developed civilization to the modern comforable life we now live in the 1st world. dan b

@dan b,

dan b;115038 wrote:

Hello again,
And so we talk along. This is what our minds are for.

Man-heaven, Woman-earth And so it is written that God created the "heaven and the earth." (Adam and Eve) Without earth heaven floats in space not knowing up or down, existence or purpose ect. Without heaven earth gets not the water from the sky for her children. In some 3d world societies the males leave the familys and the woman gets no food for her children. So when god first created Mankind "male and female created he them."Gen.1;27
Eve was no afterthought of God, but a necessity for Adam yes. A male cannot live without a female and they both cannot be entierly happy if they don't have children. That is the law of the human matrimonial condition. So the bible expects everyone who reads it to see this. The Bible isn't hocus-pocus. Only to those who don't yearn for righteousness enough to actually reallywant to understand it.
Civilization meanwhile is the outcome of eating of the "tree of knowledge of good and evil." So civilization has brough good and evel. God said it would be a problem if we ate from it! We wanted to try anyway. Isn't that the way kids are.
But it was the people after Adam and Eve, the ones who began to think with words who invented and developed civilization to the modern comforable life we now live in the 1st world. dan b

I would like to invite you to spare me...Metaphors tell us nothing of fact about reality...

@Fido,

Gen.1;27 - 3 times 3 times3 =27 Mankind was created with 3 perspectives of awarness. Physical, emotional and Mental.

The verse 27 says " 1- so God created man in his own image

............................2- in the image of god created he him,

............................3- male and female created he them

The Bible is filled with Trinityies and they all add up to reality.

@dan b,

dan b;115788 wrote:

Gen.1;27 - 3 times 3 times3 =27 Mankind was created with 3 perspectives of awarness. Physical, emotional and Mental.

The verse 27 says " 1- so God created man in his own image

............................2- in the image of god created he him,

............................3- male and female created he them

The Bible is filled with Trinityies and they all add up to reality.

The old testament was written from two sources, and then redacted...Very often the stories are told side by side and then tied together in some fashion...It is very obvious...

@vajrasattva,

The triangle is sacred. The number three is the first true prime. 3 = x. One stroke of the x is eternity. The other stroke is time. Both together are a synthesis, the 3. Eternity(God) + Time(Man) = Christ.

@vajrasattva,

The trinity makes good sense to me now. Man's existence is logos, or the son, or Christ. And this Christ is where God meets the Holy Spirit. God is spatial-being, which is also consciousness. The Holy Spirit is pure negativity, which cuts this spatial being into concepts and numbers, making language and culture possible. We are the son. All of us. And the more we understand this, the more we are the son.

@Reconstructo,

Reconstructo;134877 wrote:

The trinity makes good sense to me now. Man's existence is logos, or the son, or Christ. And this Christ is where God meets the Holy Spirit. God is spatial-being, which is also consciousness. The Holy Spirit is pure negativity, which cuts this spatial being into concepts and numbers, making language and culture possible. We are the son. All of us. And the more we understand this, the more we are the son.

I think you fell and hit your head on a bottle of alcohol again and while you were unconscious all of it split into your mouth.

@Krumple,

Krumple;134916 wrote:

I think you fell and hit your head on a bottle of alcohol again and while you were unconscious all of it split into your mouth.

Krumple, is it possible that you don't like structure? Do you simply hate the founding myth of Western Culture? Do you like Bach, the Cathedrals, all those paintings, or are they all just trash?

Jesus is obviously a painting of the ideal man. What is your ideal man, a person who is so suspicious of theory as to be without theory? The theory that theory is bad? Do you think you are living w/o a myth? I strongly doubt it. But I am aware of my myth, as it is a piece of art & logic. Are you are aware of your myth? What values do you speak from? If from no values, why speak? If from values, then they are what I am talking about. Jesus and Einstein and Elvis or whoever you want are personifications of values.....

@josh0335,

josh0335;96265 wrote:

"God the Son is separate from God the Father in that God the Son is the finite expression of the infinte."

What does this mean?

Robert Ingersoll said it well:

Quote:

Christ, according to the faith, is the second person in the Trinity, the Father being the first and the Holy Ghost the third. Each of these three persons is God. Christ is his own father and his own son. The Holy Ghost is neither father nor son, but both. The son was begotten by the father, but existed before he was begotten just the same before as after. Christ is just as old as his father, and the father is just as young as his son. The Holy Ghost proceeded from the Father and Son, but was equal to the Father and Son before he proceeded, that is to say, before he existed, but he is of the same age of the other two.

So, it is declared that the Father is God, and the Son God and the Holy Ghost God, and that these three Gods make one God.

According to the celestial multiplication table, once one is three, and three times one is one, and according to heavenly subtraction if we take two from three, three are left. The addition is equally peculiar, if we add two to one we have but one. Each one is equal to himself and the other two. Nothing ever was, nothing ever can be more perfectly idiotic and absurd than the dogma of the Trinity.

How is it possible to prove the existence of the Trinity?

Is it possible for a human being, who has been born but once, to comprehend, or to imagine the existence of three beings, each of whom is equal to the three?

Think of one of these beings as the father of one, and think of that one as half human and all God, and think of the third as having proceeded from the other two, and then think of all three as one. Think that after the father begot the son, the father was still alone, and after the Holy Ghost proceeded from the father and the son, the father was still alone because there never was and never will be but one God.

At this point, absurdity having reached its limit, nothing more can be said except: "Let us pray."

From The Foundations of Faith. Full text of "The works of Robert G. Ingersoll"

@Pyrrho,

interesting topic my take on the trinity comes in two stages

1st the father the son and holy ghost/spirit the trinity,
one and the same the great mystery like the shamrock 3 leaves one stock, and if your good and go through the son and be filled with the spirit to the father and the kingdom of heaven catholic/christin teaching

2nd father the son and holy ghost/spirit the trinity
my soul(god) is all time, my spirit(holy ghost) is all space and i am(the son) space and time the kingdom is all inside

i can't remember who posted about plasma but their is another in the mix the virgin

I find it fascinating that people still take the new testement as though it a unique teaching when catholisim is a universal religion ie the sum of all the religions up to 4th century

@vajrasattva,

..or Maybe Maria just had an affair and blamed it on some holy ghost? ..and a bunch of naive idiots belived it?

Same with greeks and "son of Zeus" anology.

@HexHammer,

and maybe metaphors shouldn't be taken as fact

@vajrasattva,

steam,water and ice. three different manifestations of the same substance. The three ways that the divine reveals itself to man. That's not too difficult really, is it?
Mind you , I think the trinity is an unnecessary complication not an essential doctrine.

@HexHammer,

HexHammer;142278 wrote:

..or Maybe Maria just had an affair and blamed it on some holy ghost? ..and a bunch of naive idiots belived it?

Same with greeks and "son of Zeus" anology.

Of course I see what you mean here. But whether or not Jesus or Mary existed in the flesh is of secondary importance, in my opinion. The Virgin Birth is a myth that recurs in different cultures. It's a sort of code.

---------- Post added 03-22-2010 at 09:17 PM ----------

prothero;142378 wrote:

steam,water and ice. three different manifestations of the same substance. The three ways that the divine reveals itself to man. That's not too difficult really, is it?
Mind you , I think the trinity is an unnecessary complication not an essential doctrine.

A very poetic reduction. I like it.

Of course I might be just a heretic, but I see the divine as the clash of two elements (Kant's concept and intuition) and the third as just the self-consciousness of this clash. (Man, logos, the philosopher, etc. )

---------- Post added 03-22-2010 at 09:18 PM ----------

froach;142280 wrote:

and maybe metaphors shouldn't be taken as fact

exactly. i completely agree.

@Reconstructo,

Reconstructo;142391 wrote:

The Virgin Birth is a myth that recurs in different cultures. It's a sort of code.

Code? Please explain!

@HexHammer,

the virgin birth is code of rebirth during life

@froach,

froach;142567 wrote:

the virgin birth is code of rebirth during life

Sounds more like it has been interpeted that way in later time.

@HexHammer,

which later time and after which virgin bith?

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