Yes, common sense does tell us that those are two separate things. Anyone that claimed otherwise would be foolish. Fortunately that's not the issue here. We're debating whether or not there is a relationship between the two separate things. There's no confusion that I can see.

What kind of relation have you in mind? Obviously, the truth value of a statement could not be known unless it had a truth value. On the other hand, it can have a truth value, and that truth value need not be known, Have you any other relation in mind? What?

YOU CANNOT REFER TO ENTIRE UNIVERSE IN TERMS OF EXISTING STARS WITHOUT A SPECIFIC OBSERVER POINT O VIEW WHICH IS RELATIVE...

...so yes the question does not make sense...from different places you might get both numbers...

All right. Switch to the question about the number of grains of sand on the beach at Albufeira.

Have you been there ?

if think Relativity still would apply but the difference is of the Scale...negletable for practical purposes...

Could you try answering the question? Does it have a truth value or not? I have been there.

Could we say for instance "that living dinosaurs (tyrannosarus rex say) do not exist on the earth in the current time?" If we are specific enough can we say with reasonable certainty, truth or knowledge that some things do not exist, in specific places at specific times?

In this case in both they would not exist, but the question still fails to refer which current time...yours or mine...

Yours (subjective), mine (subjective), or ours (objective). Objective reality is in some sense shared reality, is it not? No observation is independent of the observer or the method of observation but when we can all independently do the same experiment and get the same results we start to call it an "objective" result?

I guess we have returned to the question, what does it mean not to serve a function as a proposition. What function does it not serve? It is either true or false that the number of stars in the universe is odd, isn't it? So, in the sense that it has a truth value, it does SF. What function doesn't it serve? (I did not, in any way, say that it is verified that that number or stars is odd. I said only that the statement has a truth value. Not one we know, of course, but that's different).

As I've already said, in reality it is either true or false that the number of stars in the universe is odd but my argument is not metaphysical. My argument is epistemic and semantic. Saying that the number of stars in the universe is odd serves no function as a proposition because it cannot be verified at this time due to an epistemic limitation on our part. So when I say that it has no truth value I should instead say that it has no value as a proposition. It is therefore more correct to say that the number of stars in the universe may be odd or I believe that the number of stars in the universe is odd versus saying that the number of stars in the universe is odd.

Could we say for instance "that living dinosaurs (tyrannosarus rex say) do not exist on the earth in the current time?" If we are specific enough can we say with reasonable certainty, truth or knowledge that some things do not exist, in specific places at specific times?

What is negligible? How can a truth-value be negligible? What are you talking about?

---------- Post added 02-27-2010 at 03:02 PM ----------



You mean that it serves no function because it cannot be verified? Fine. What function does it fail to serve? I think I have asked you that question three times now.

When you ask if the number is odd or even you might get both answers in relativistic terms...

...the difference in time frame from a n x grain to another, it is of course so small that it is for practical purpose negligible, thus you can consider the beach a working unity...from there you might deduce the possibility of a true value on the question of even or odd regarding the grains...

I am getting the impression that you are trying to avoid answering the question. The question was, is it not true that the number of grains of sand is either odd or it is even? The negligibility of the difference has nothing to do with it.

Grains, people, cars, or even Stars are asserted in groups with a Space/Time frame as background...or do they exist independently of Space and Time ?
What the hell are you not understanding here ??? Jeeeeesus !!! :brickwall:

As phenomena they cannot in truth be asserted in a group !!!

WITH NO ESTABLISHED COHERENT BACKGROUND, THE ANSWER IS BOTH ODD AND EVEN !