Speculation

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richrf
 
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 12:46 pm
@Caroline,
Caroline;77977 wrote:
No. Im interested in the macro and micro, I have no idea what it all means. Why, are you interested in it too?


Hi Caroline,

I have noticed that there are three or so members on this board who like to get involved in threads in a way that make the threads lose focus and are disruptive. What I have decided to do is to ignore all comments that are not respectful of the thread or the poster. That is not to say that members cannot say whatever they wish within forum guidelines, but I am going to be a little more thoughtful about who I respond to.

Cya, Smile
Rich
 
Caroline
 
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 12:50 pm
@richrf,
richrf;77984 wrote:
Hi Caroline,

I have noticed that there are three or so members on this board who like to get involved in threads in a way that make the threads lose focus and are disruptive. What I have decided to do is to ignore all comments that are not respectful of the thread or the poster. That is not to say that members cannot say whatever they wish within forum guidelines, but I am going to be a little more thoughtful about who I respond to.

Cya, Smile
Rich

Thanks. That's one way of dealing with it. Smile
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 01:10 pm
@richrf,
richrf;77984 wrote:
Hi Caroline,

I have noticed that there are three or so members on this board who like to get involved in threads in a way that make the threads lose focus and are disruptive. What I have decided to do is to ignore all comments that are not respectful of the thread or the poster. That is not to say that members cannot say whatever they wish within forum guidelines, but I am going to be a little more thoughtful about who I respond to.

Cya, Smile
Rich


Well, those replies may be not respectful for you, and they may make the threads lose focus for you, and may be disruptive for you, but they are none of those for me. So, there! And what are you going to do when someone disagrees with you? Insist that you are right? After all, they may disagree with you for you, but they probably agree with you for them. It is all perspective, you know. Does Caroline agree or disagree (I mean for her, not for you, or me). And is it two or three members for you, or is it two or three members for the Man in the Moon. You don't want to impose your numbers on the Man in the Moon, do you?
 
Brandon Boyd
 
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 01:27 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;77990 wrote:
Well, those replies may be not respectful for you, and they may make the threads lose focus for you, and may be disruptive for you, but they are none of those for me. So, there! And what are you going to do when someone disagrees with you? Insist that you are right? After all, they may disagree with you for you, but they probably agree with you for them. It is all perspective, you know. Does Caroline agree or disagree (I mean for her, not for you, or me). And is it two or three members for you, or is it two or three members for the Man in the Moon. You don't want to impose your numbers on the Man in the Moon, do you?




I understand 100% y'all's conversation, but please keep to the subject. =D
 
PoeticVisionary
 
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 01:31 pm
@Brandon Boyd,
Here is a link to Edgar Cayce-The Sleeping Prophet. Edgar Cayce' s Association for Research and Enlightenment
The mind is a realm of unrealized potential. I am bipolar and I tell you there are times where I question reality itself. (Now-Now. I know I left myself open on that one. Be nice.)
 
William
 
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 01:45 pm
@Brandon Boyd,
Rich and Caroline,

I tried to get a thread going on Human Instinct that kind of fizzled at that time which I think parallels what you two have been discussing in that we, like the animal, we, too, have an "instinct"; it's just in it's infancy and far from fully developed. It is that same communication animals have with one another that we will eventually obtain. To me it makes a lot of sense.

I have made the analogy of the wolf as it treats other wolves. The wolf or the ape or the beaver have reached the epitome of their being and instinctlvely do as they have been "designed" to do. We have yet to reach that designation and that is what life is about. Natural selection is that process that causes extinction of that which existed previously that could cause harm to that more evolved such as the human. Nature will make those accomodations, naturally; and I might add without our interference. The problem is we are not sure where we are intruding and where we are not. Once we begin to communicate, much like other species, we will be able to reach that knowledge lessening our intrusion and comforming with it enhancing our communicaton with each other.

Thought I might throw this in because I think it is relevant. What do you think?:perplexed:

William
 
richrf
 
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 08:33 pm
@William,
William;78001 wrote:
Rich and Caroline,
It is that same communication animals have with one another that we will eventually obtain. To me it makes a lot of sense. William


It is possible. I think all species of their greater and lesser capacities as they evolve. Certainly, survival seems to be a special capacity of roaches, and dogs apparently can hear higher pitches (greater heating sensitivity). I think the more we observe the better we understand about us in relation to the rest of nature.

Rich
 
urangutan
 
Reply Sat 18 Jul, 2009 08:19 pm
@Brandon Boyd,
Global simulation, Xris, is a scary thought. The word global itself was once a horrifyying concept for the chuch. Not long after the great inquisitions, where the possibility of evil dispensing itself through-out the populace was overcome, the earth was virtually proven to be global. The church found new fears in the inquisition prospect and that is that the evil committed in their world was the effect of the heathen or pagan, come evil worship that was undertaken in these new worlds. The church had a new mission.

Evolution was the obvious next step in the progress of thought and what it laid in place was the superior breed concept. This allowed for the destruction of life liberty and habitat of all to this date. I don't mind that you think along these lines that you do, Xris, just remember, you are not the first and the concept of your belief has been the harm of many the destruction of endless worlds and was once the passage to evil. I can well imagine that there were those in our past who took it as the passage to the Gods.

Jung' pool of existence and pre-existence, the unconscious and can it be a link to our future. The idea that there is this sharing, Richrf, has also been formed into our psche, through the wonders of the universe. Well at least that which we come into contact with. Astrology is a fine example but things with some greater significance like the passing of a comet, tend to be imaged as the bringing of new infomation. Amazement leads to wonder, wonder to expression and so on to creation. (I will use the word cosmos as it is the definition of all possibility, while universe is directed at that which is concievable to science.)

Jung's collective unconscious can be likened to the cosmos and while there are these strange phenomena traversing throughout it, it is their interaction with us that enlightens our understanding and returns to us or teaches us, that which is our creativity. Are we being fondled by our own imaginations, never completely endowed just slightly enriched by day until, perhaps all is revealed.

Communication within the animal kingdom and in specific Caroline, bird harming. I am definitely not laughing at you as I well know the buggers talk. I despise seagulls, not that I would cause their extinction but I think you know what I mean. My friend and I stood upon the shore one day and proceded to throw rocks at them. Unluckily we missed completely. What began as a close toss resulted in a complete bypass of our throwing area. For at each throw the following seagull flew at a greater distance from our position, until we gave up our plight.

Now if animals do comunnicate, which can be assumed even proven with only the doubt that we cannot recipricate, then can they communicate across species and what more is there in their understanding. Is this the link between our understanding of the environment within which we live, are we seperated from it because of our carelessness, should we progress to this link, what is there to gain.

I know this is not the conclusion and by no means does it bring anybody any closer to the objective of this thread. It doesn't say we are wrong and it does't broaden the scope of the idea but I hope it was at least revealing towards your own perspectives and combinable in refactoring your conversation.
 
jeeprs
 
Reply Mon 3 Aug, 2009 06:02 am
@Brandon Boyd,
Well, Brandon, I think basically you are acknowledging the fact that mind is fundamental reality.

Have a look at: Irreducible Mind, by Edward Kelly, on this topic.

Quote:
The authors systematically marshal evidence for a variety of psychological phenomena that are extremely difficult, and in some cases clearly impossible, to account for in conventional physicalist terms. Topics addressed include phenomena of extreme psychophysical influence, memory, psychological automatisms and secondary personality, near-death experiences and allied phenomena, genius-level creativity, and 'mystical' states of consciousness both spontaneous and drug-induced.


There has been mention of the 'collective unconscious' of C.G. Jung. There is an interesting Buddhist concept called 'alaya vijnana' which refers to the idea of a 'store consciousness' which is similar in some ways:

Quote:
From Wikipedia article on Alaya Vijnana.

Big topic you have picked there. You could spend a lifetime studying it and still not be done.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Mon 3 Aug, 2009 06:28 am
@jeeprs,
jeeprs;81064 wrote:


From Wikipedia article on Alaya Vijnana.

Big topic you have picked there. You could spend a lifetime studying it and still not be done.


And, moreover, not know more about anything, or be clearer about anything, than when you started, and, what is worse, be even more confused than when you started.
 
jeeprs
 
Reply Mon 3 Aug, 2009 03:14 pm
@Brandon Boyd,
Speak for yourself. I understand it with pristine clarity, thanks.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Mon 3 Aug, 2009 04:04 pm
@jeeprs,
jeeprs;81123 wrote:
Speak for yourself. I understand it with pristine clarity, thanks.


You mean you believe you understand it. That is different. People often believe they understand all kinds of things that make no sense at all. Think of all the nonsensical religious and philosophical doctrines people believe it, and so, think they understand. In fact, haven't you thought you understood something taught to you in school, but it turned out, that when you were tested on it, you did not understand it at all? I have.
 
Zetetic11235
 
Reply Mon 3 Aug, 2009 04:34 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;81127 wrote:
You mean you believe you understand it. That is different. People often believe they understand all kinds of things that make no sense at all. Think of all the nonsensical religious and philosophical doctrines people believe it, and so, think they understand. In fact, haven't you thought you understood something taught to you in school, but it turned out, that when you were tested on it, you did not understand it at all? I have.


That can be the case. It could also be the case that instead of getting one meaning, he took another away from what he read. The perils of language are endless.

So you may believe that he only believes he understands it but in reality he took away one understanding and not the one the writer meant to convey; much in the same way that I am postulating you have done: you took from his statement one idea of what the case may be, when in reality he may have had another in mind that he failed to convey to you (possibly the one that I suggested).

This is a fun game.:bigsmile:
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Mon 3 Aug, 2009 04:40 pm
@Zetetic11235,
Zetetic11235;81129 wrote:
That can be the case. It could also be the case that instead of getting one meaning, he took another away from what he read. The perils of language are endless.

So you may believe that he only believes he understands it but in reality he took away one understanding and not the one the writer meant to convey; much in the same way that I am postulating you have done: you took from his statement one idea of what the case may be, when in reality he may have had another in mind that he failed to convey to you (possibly the one that I suggested).

This is a fun game.:bigsmile:


There is no reason to think that he understood what he thought the Swami meant, and there is no reason to think that what he believed he understood meant anything at all. We would have to hear what it was he believed he understood, and examine it for sense. So far, it doesn't look good. Swamis are not famous for making sense.
 
Zetetic11235
 
Reply Mon 3 Aug, 2009 04:43 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;81130 wrote:
There is no reason to think that he understood what he thought the Swami meant, and there is no reason to think that what he believed he understood meant anything at all. We would have to hear what it was he believed he understood, and examine it for sense. So far, it doesn't look good.


I don't see much reason to believe the converse either, in fact, I would go so far as to say that there is zero reason to believe the converse and with present tools neither is verifiable. So it doesn't look any more good or bad than an invisible flying pink elephant.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Mon 3 Aug, 2009 04:50 pm
@Zetetic11235,
Zetetic11235;81131 wrote:
I don't see much reason to believe the converse either, in fact, I would go so far as to say that there is zero reason to believe the converse and with present tools neither is verifiable. So it doesn't look any more good or bad than an invisible flying pink elephant.


Well, if there isn't much reason to think he understood what the Swami said, I guess I am happy to think there wasn't reason to think he did not understand it. After all, he th0ught he understood it with, what was it, something like pristine clarity? Maybe we better wait and see what it was he thought the Swami said. If anything. As I said, Swamis are not famous for their pristine clarity, either. If they were, they would not be Swamis (or is it "Swamies", or maybe just, "Swarms"?).
 
xris
 
Reply Tue 4 Aug, 2009 02:53 am
@kennethamy,
You say tomatoees i say tomattas,lets call the damned thing off.
 
jeeprs
 
Reply Tue 4 Aug, 2009 03:38 am
@Brandon Boyd,
There are some who are solely concerned with what constitutes a valid statement. Speculation about anything beyond this horizon seems to cause them acute anxiety. The cause of such anxiety would be interesting to consider but of course that would be speculation, hence off limits. So I agree with you. Potatos
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Tue 4 Aug, 2009 04:23 am
@jeeprs,
jeeprs;81169 wrote:
There are some who are solely concerned with what constitutes a valid statement. Speculation about anything beyond this horizon seems to cause them acute anxiety. The cause of such anxiety would be interesting to consider but of course that would be speculation, hence off limits. So I agree with you. Potatos


I imagine you mean a true statement, maybe? And, yes, I must confess I like the statements I believe to be true. And even to have some reason to think that they are true. Otherwise, I don't see much point in believing them. The purpose of speculation, I always thought, was to try to come up with interesting possibilities. And then, to consider which might be true, and why. You to think of speculation as a kind of entertainment-like television.
 
jeeprs
 
Reply Tue 4 Aug, 2009 04:33 am
@Brandon Boyd,
Groan. Actually I really don't want to argue the case. I have said in previous threads that I consider search for truth to be something more than just the framing of propositions. Call me an existentialist, if you like. But I do recognise that different people have different motivations for contributing here.

Consider the parable of the moray eel.
 
 

 
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