I want to drive, but I don't want to take the drivers test, but I'm told that there will be negative consequences for driving without a license, so even though I don't want to take the test, I will because I want to drive more than I don't want to take the test. I took the test. Did I take the test of my own free will?

I think perfect Free Will is a myth, an impossible ideal. After all, we are social animals with needs and fears. But "freedom" is more complicated. So many definitions out there.

I agree with you of course, as it seems clear that a necessary condition of doing something of my own free will is that I want to do it.

This example seems awkward though. Imagine the response I would get by claiming that I took the test but did not do so of my own free will. There is no law that says I must take the driver's test, and no one other than myself made the choice to take the test. I wasn't even compelled to take the test. The government would have been content with me never taking it so long as I didn't drive. There were only consequences for driving if I didn't take the test.

This example seems awkward though. Imagine the response I would get by claiming that I took the test but did not do so of my own free will. There is no law that says I must take the driver's test, and no one other than myself made the choice to take the test. I wasn't even compelled to take the test. The government would have been content with me never taking it so long as I didn't drive. There were only consequences for driving if I didn't take the test.

and we might also remember that a claim of being compelled by a slight breeze, to plunge a knife into someone's chest, is not such a great excuse.

Yes, you are correct. As kennethamy noted earlier there's a correlation between the level of the compeller and the quality of the excuse; the greater the compeller, the better the excuse.

Yes, you are correct. As kennethamy noted earlier there's a correlation between the level of the compeller and the quality of the excuse; the greater the compeller, the better the excuse.

And isn't that where the "overwhelming" bit comes in ?

I don't think I said that. The worse thing you do, the better the excuse had better be, maybe.

I think we can learn a lot about free will from studying excuses. The better the excuse, the less the degree of freedom.

Right!



Well, you said:



Which pretty much equates to, the better the excuse, the greater the compeller. At least, that's how I interpreted "the less the degree of freedom".

To tell you the truth, I don't know what I meant by that. The worse what you did was, the more you need an excuse, and the better excuse you need. How is that? Excuses are attempts to show that what you did, you did not do freely (at least to some extent).

Yes, you are correct. As kennethamy noted earlier there's a correlation between the level of the compeller and the quality of the excuse; the greater the compeller, the better the excuse.

A slight breeze would not compel us to do such a thing. Theoretically, I suppose a slight breeze could cause us to do such a thing.

Yeah, what I said was vague. I meant that if you're overwhelmingly compelled, you probably have a better excuse for doing what you did (showing that you did not do it freely).

No, this doesn't sound right.

Because I could be overwhelmingly compelled, and still have a horrible excuse. For instance, I could be compelled, by a certain medication, to commit some act. But, my excuse may be horrible since I was not prescribed that medication and actually stole it from a friend!

Hm. If a breeze caused me to stab someone, couldn't we say the breeze compelled me to stab that person? In this case I had only one option, but I did not want to stab that person.

What sorts of things can compel, and what sorts of things cannot compel? And what does my knowing I am compelled have to do with it?

Yeah, what I said was vague. I meant that if you're overwhelmingly compelled, you probably have a better excuse for doing what you did (showing that you did not do it freely).

No, this doesn't sound right.

Because I could be overwhelmingly compelled, and still have a horrible excuse. For instance, I could be overwhelmingly compelled by a certain medication to commit some act. But, my excuse may be horrible since I was not prescribed to that medication, and more, I stole it from a friend!

Hm. If a breeze caused me to stab someone, couldn't we say the breeze compelled me to stab that person?