Metaphysics is Meaningless?

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jeeprs
 
Reply Mon 15 Mar, 2010 04:33 pm
@Fido,
Thanks LK!
Fido;139845 wrote:
If it were possible that other people in other times knew the problem, and had the solution to what are essentially moral issues that confronted them as they now confront us, then it is certain the good they sought would by now be obvious.


By what logical necessity would they 'now be obvious'? Is it not at least possible that things were discovered then, that have since been forgotten? Most modern people IMO have not the least idea of the Western philosophical tradition or even of any single philosophical idea in the traditional sense.

Now I don't want to glorify metaphysics or become sentimental about it, in the least. But I think many people reject it as outdated and old-fashioned without having the least idea what it means. I think it is possible to retain some meaning from the Scholastics and the Platonic tradition, without being a Catholic. I think in the modern view, it is all fused into a solid mass of dogma. You have to either swallow it whole, or reject it completely. But there are some clever contemporary Thomist philosophers around, and also an interesting cross-over between Thomism and Zen, that was started by Thomas Merton.

Now that we have access to many perspectives besides the traditional one, it is quite interesting to re-examine the old traditions in light of 'the perennial philosophy' as Huston Smith argues in Forgotten Truth.
 
north
 
Reply Mon 15 Mar, 2010 04:37 pm
@StochasticBeauty,
metaphysics is meaningless if based on zero knowledge
 
jeeprs
 
Reply Mon 15 Mar, 2010 04:38 pm
@StochasticBeauty,
StochasticBeauty;140027 wrote:
I think that metaphysics has had many productive byproducts even if they are used as jokes by Woody Allen.

Metaphysics shapes our subjective views of reality. For example I would have to say that the endless curiousity found amongst many (scientists especially) was paved by the *seminal* thoughts of metaphysics.

Metaphysics is like spirituality without the *culture* that other holistic followings have.


I agree. Western culture went through, and is still going through, a long period of simply rejecting metaphysics, because it is religion, because it is the Church, because it is dogma and all the stuff that was beaten into our forefathers by corporal punishment. But the Greeks were different to that. They were much more humourous, vital, contemporary and alive than the specimens preserved in formalin in the basements of seminaries. There is still something alive in the spirit of metaphysics, provided you are self-aware enough to actually see past our own cultural baggage and see what it is.
 
north
 
Reply Mon 15 Mar, 2010 04:42 pm
@jeeprs,
Quote:
Originally Posted by StochasticBeauty http://www.philosophyforum.com/images/PHBlue/buttons/viewpost.gif
I think that metaphysics has had many productive byproducts even if they are used as jokes by Woody Allen.

Metaphysics shapes our subjective views of reality. For example I would have to say that the endless curiousity found amongst many (scientists especially) was paved by the *seminal* thoughts of metaphysics.

Metaphysics is like spirituality without the *culture* that other holistic followings have.







jeeprs;140030 wrote:
I agree. Western culture went through, and is still going through, a long period of simply rejecting metaphysics, because it is religion, because it is the Church, because it is dogma and all the stuff that was beaten into our forefathers by corporal punishment. But the Greeks were different to that. They were much more humourous, vital, contemporary and alive than the specimens preserved in formalin in the basements of seminaries. There is still something alive in the spirit of metaphysics, provided you are self-aware enough to actually see past our own cultural baggage and see what it is.


to your last statement

what then is metaphysics , past our cultural baggage ?
 
jeeprs
 
Reply Mon 15 Mar, 2010 04:50 pm
@north,
north;140033 wrote:
to your last statement

what then is metaphysics , past our cultural baggage ?


Two of the books that got me started on that road were Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance by Robert M. Pirsig and The Supreme Identity by Alan Watts.
 
north
 
Reply Mon 15 Mar, 2010 04:53 pm
@jeeprs,
jeeprs;140034 wrote:
Two of the books that got me started on that road were Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance by Robert M. Pirsig and The Supreme Identity by Alan Watts.


and your conclusion is ...?
 
jeeprs
 
Reply Mon 15 Mar, 2010 05:21 pm
@markoos,
that I recommend both.

You don't get to understand subjects like metaphysics without doing some reading. Both those titles are popular books, not academic textbooks. If you're not interested in reading, pick another topic.
 
north
 
Reply Mon 15 Mar, 2010 05:24 pm
@jeeprs,
jeeprs;140034 wrote:
Two of the books that got me started on that road were Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance by Robert M. Pirsig and The Supreme Identity by Alan Watts.


jeeprs;140045 wrote:
that I recommend both.

You don't get to understand subjects like metaphysics without doing some reading. If you're not interested in reading, pick another topic.


what I want to know is what YOU think , after reading these books

so what do think ?
 
jeeprs
 
Reply Mon 15 Mar, 2010 05:28 pm
@markoos,
I have already explained my position, there is no point in doing it again. I expect most people will disagree with it, and I am OK with that.
 
north
 
Reply Mon 15 Mar, 2010 05:39 pm
@jeeprs,
jeeprs;140049 wrote:
I have already explained my position, there is no point in doing it again. I expect most people will disagree with it, and I am OK with that.


then moving on from here

---------- Post added 03-15-2010 at 07:44 PM ----------

jeeprs;140049 wrote:
I have already explained my position, there is no point in doing it again. I expect most people will disagree with it, and I am OK with that.


what posts ?

I value your thoughts rather than any reference to your thinking
 
Chrisbx1
 
Reply Thu 18 Mar, 2010 02:50 pm
@markoos,
In my opinion, when you sat down to write this thread and your fingers touched the keyboard you changed the universe in some way...
All things have meaning, no matter how big, small, or unpopular..... :a-ok:
 
 

 
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