Metaphysics is Meaningless?

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kennethamy
 
Reply Thu 11 Jun, 2009 02:55 pm
@RDanneskjld,
R.Danneskjöld;67626 wrote:
There not content free as such, but Russell attempted to show that when stated in particular way they were no longer a metaphysical sentence and consisted of assertions which could be shown to be clearly false. Russell achieved this through denoting.

Take the sentence 'The Present King of France is bald'. Russell said that the sentence is equivalent to :
1) There is a king of France
2) There is not more than one King of france
3) Whatever is the king is bald

1) is an existence claim
2) is a uniqueness claim
3) is the prediction

The Orginal sentence is shown to be true when all the three assertions are true, and the sentence is false if anyone of them is false. This was used by others such Ayer and other Logical Positivist's with the aim to show that metaphysical statements where meaningless.


How does Russell's Theory of Descriptions show metaphysics is meaningless? Russell held that the sentence, "The present king of France is bald" is false, not meaningless, because it implies that there is a present king of France, and there is none.
 
RDanneskjld
 
Reply Thu 11 Jun, 2009 03:33 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;68357 wrote:
How does Russell's Theory of Descriptions show metaphysics is meaningless? Russell held that the sentence, "The present king of France is bald" is false, not meaningless, because it implies that there is a present king of France, and there is none.


A.J Ayer a logical positivist use's Russell's theory of descriptions in his work Language,Truth and Logic as part of his arguement against metaphysical statements, I forget which chapter it is included in but I think it may be in the chapter entitled the Elimination of metaphysic's. And A.J Ayer would probably say that the sentence 'The Present king of France is bald' is not meaningless but has no meaning in use. I never asserted that Russell held the view that his theory of descriptions rendered metaphysical sentence's meaningless, but rather groups and individuals used his developments in this area with the aim of Eliminating metaphysic's.
 
hue-man
 
Reply Thu 11 Jun, 2009 07:36 pm
@RDanneskjld,
I believe that Russell himself did not agree with the view that metaphysics was meaningless. Isn't he called the last great metaphysician?
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Thu 11 Jun, 2009 10:55 pm
@RDanneskjld,
R.Danneskjöld;68377 wrote:
A.J Ayer a logical positivist use's Russell's theory of descriptions in his work Language,Truth and Logic as part of his arguement against metaphysical statements, I forget which chapter it is included in but I think it may be in the chapter entitled the Elimination of metaphysic's. And A.J Ayer would probably say that the sentence 'The Present king of France is bald' is not meaningless but has no meaning in use. I never asserted that Russell held the view that his theory of descriptions rendered metaphysical sentence's meaningless, but rather groups and individuals used his developments in this area with the aim of Eliminating metaphysic's.


I don't think you are right about Ayer using Russell to show that TPKOFB is meaningless. Ayer did not think it was meaningless. The concept of "meaning in use" is quite a different matter. You are just guessing. The Logical Positivists (like Ayer) employed the verification theory of meaning to "elimininate metaphysics". Russell's theory of descriptions had nothing to do with it.
 
RDanneskjld
 
Reply Fri 12 Jun, 2009 07:51 am
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;68469 wrote:
I don't think you are right about Ayer using Russell to show that TPKOFB is meaningless. Ayer did not think it was meaningless. The concept of "meaning in use" is quite a different matter. You are just guessing. The Logical Positivists (like Ayer) employed the verification theory of meaning to "elimininate metaphysics". Russell's theory of descriptions had nothing to do with it.


I'm not guessing it is actually in Language, Truth and Logic which I have a copy off and have read. Russel's theory of descriptions is talked about from page 49-53 in the Nature of Philosophical Analysis and then again in the Appendix from page 183-197, Ayer did not use Russell's theory to show that the sentence was meaningless but it was certainly part of his attempt to bring about the eliminination metaphysics using certain tool's of logical analysis.

YouTube - A.J. Ayer; The Metaphysician's Nightmare
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Fri 12 Jun, 2009 08:12 am
@RDanneskjld,
R.Danneskjöld;68531 wrote:
I'm not guessing it is actually in Language, Truth and Logic which I have a copy off and have read. Russel's theory of descriptions is talked about from page 49-53 in the Nature of Philosophical Analysis and then again in the Appendix from page 183-197, Ayer did not use Russell's theory to show that the sentence was meaningless but it was certainly part of his attempt to bring about the eliminination metaphysics using certain tool's of logical analysis.

YouTube - A.J. Ayer; The Metaphysician's Nightmare



If you say so. How did he use that tool to "bring about the elimination of metaphysics".
 
Satan phil
 
Reply Fri 12 Jun, 2009 08:44 am
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;68534 wrote:
If you say so. How did he use that tool to "bring about the elimination of metaphysics".


He showed that metaphysics cannot give us knowledge about the world which is what it claims to do. Logical arguments are closed systems. Analytic statements are tautological or true by definition of the terms they contain. The statement, it will either rain or it will not rain tomorrow, does not tell you anything new. I'm simply listing the possibilities. If you want knowledge about the world, it will always be synthetic and it will always probable, conditional and tentative. Logical arguments tell us about relationships between terms, they do not give us any new knowledge of the world. Arguing over metaphysics is like arguing over the properties of unicorns. You could do it but why would you want to?
 
ACB
 
Reply Fri 12 Jun, 2009 05:12 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;68357 wrote:
Russell held that the sentence, "The present king of France is bald" is false, not meaningless, because it implies that there is a present king of France, and there is none.


If "The present king of France is bald" is false, then its negation
"It is not the case that the present king of France is bald"
must be true. But surely the second sentence is equivalent to
"There is a present king of France and it is not the case that he is bald".
But the last sentence is obviously not true. How do you resolve this contradiction?
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Fri 12 Jun, 2009 05:29 pm
@ACB,
ACB;68631 wrote:
If "The present king of France is bald" is false, then its negation
"It is not the case that the present king of France is bald"
must be true. But surely the second sentence is equivalent to
"There is a present king of France and it is not the case that he is bald".
But the last sentence is obviously not true. How do you resolve this contradiction?



There are two negations of, the present king of France is bald, depending on whether the negation has wide scope, or narrow scope Thus:

It is not the case that the present king of France is bald; and, The present king of France is not bald.

The latter sentence is false, since there is no present king of France. And, of course, the former sentence is true, for the same reason. What is the contradiction?
 
Zetetic11235
 
Reply Fri 12 Jun, 2009 05:59 pm
@kennethamy,
The present king of France is bald <=> There is a present king of France ^ Any king of France past 1850 until the present reading of this sentence is or has been bald
The second is vacuously true, the first is presently false. This interpretation allows for their to be a bald king of France in the future, and acknowledges that there is not one now.
The negation would then yield: There is not a present king of France OR No king of France past 1850 until the present reading of this sentence is or has been bald

Which is true.

Of course this is now a matter of interpretation. But that does not seem to pertain to the topic at hand at any rate.
 
Aedes
 
Reply Fri 12 Jun, 2009 06:33 pm
@Satan phil,
Satan;68538 wrote:
He showed that metaphysics cannot give us knowledge about the world which is what it claims to do.
Does this really need to be shown? Isn't it self-evident?
 
ACB
 
Reply Fri 12 Jun, 2009 07:09 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;68634 wrote:
There are two negations of, the present king of France is bald, depending on whether the negation has wide scope, or narrow scope Thus:

It is not the case that the present king of France is bald; and, The present king of France is not bald.

The latter sentence is false, since there is no present king of France. And, of course, the former sentence is true, for the same reason. What is the contradiction?


Take the sentence: "It is not the case that the present king of France is bald". By using the definite article before "present king", it implies that there is such a king of France, and then states that it is not the case that he is bald. But the implied assertion is false; there is no such person. So the sentence as a whole is not true, since one of its assertions is false.

On the other hand, it seems that if "The present king of France is bald" is false, then "It is not the case that the present king of France is bald" must, as its negation, be true. Hence the paradox.

The only way of resolving this difficulty would be to regard "The present king of France is bald" as meaningless, not false. Then "It is not the case that...." could also be regarded as meaningless.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Fri 12 Jun, 2009 11:58 pm
@ACB,
ACB;68655 wrote:
Take the sentence: "It is not the case that the present king of France is bald". By using the definite article before "present king", it implies that there is such a king of France, and then states that it is not the case that he is bald. But the implied assertion is false; there is no such person. So the sentence as a whole is not true, since one of its assertions is false.

On the other hand, it seems that if "The present king of France is bald" is false, then "It is not the case that the present king of France is bald" must, as its negation, be true. Hence the paradox.

The only way of resolving this difficulty would be to regard "The present king of France is bald" as meaningless, not false. Then "It is not the case that...." could also be regarded as meaningless.


1. "The present king of France is bald" is false
Therefore, 2. "It is not case that the present king of France is bald" is true.

And, 3. "The present king of France is not bald" is false. For the same reason that 1 is false.

I fail to see the paradox.

The view that the two sentences you cite are meaningless, allows for truth-gaps. Which means that the two sentences you cite cannot figure in arguments. This seems counter-intuitive.
 
longknowledge
 
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 01:38 am
@Holiday20310401,
Holiday20310401;43346 wrote:
Metaphysics is systematic, what's wrong with it as an exercise? I value it a lot, it just can't be meaningless!

Metaphysics isn't meaningless. You'll find its meaning here.

:flowers:
 
Owen phil
 
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 11:51 am
@ACB,
ACB;68655 wrote:
Take the sentence: "It is not the case that the present king of France is bald". By using the definite article before "present king", it implies that there is such a king of France, and then states that it is not the case that he is bald. But the implied assertion is false; there is no such person. So the sentence as a whole is not true, since one of its assertions is false.


I don't agree.
(It is not the case that the present king of France is bald) is true, because (the present king of France is bald) is false.

(the present king of France is bald) implies (there is such a king of France), is true.
But, (It is not the case that the present king of France is bald) implies (there is such a king of France), is contradictory.
That is to say, (the present king of France is bald) or (there is such a king in France), is false. Both propositions are false.

There is no paradox here at all.

ACB;68655 wrote:

On the other hand, it seems that if "The present king of France is bald" is false, then "It is not the case that the present king of France is bald" must, as its negation, be true. Hence the paradox.

The only way of resolving this difficulty would be to regard "The present king of France is bald" as meaningless, not false. Then "It is not the case that...." could also be regarded as meaningless.
 
GoshisDead
 
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 12:19 pm
@markoos,
Metaphysics is only as meaningless as it affects people's behavior. If someone believes in a principle enough to act upon it, it has meaning and is functionally real whether it can be empirically verified or not.
 
prothero
 
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 02:44 pm
@GoshisDead,
On the contrary.
Metaphysics is how we build more complete and hopefully coherent worldviews. We all engage in it and it is how we impart meaning to our worlds. Values and aesthetics are always a form of engaging in metaphysics not physics. You should not ignore science and physics in constructing a worldview but they alone allow the construction of only parital and incomplete worldviews or guides to living well.
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 09:11 pm
@markoos,
To say that "metaphysics is meaningless" is arguably a metaphysical statement. It's also just lazy, IMO.

Quote:

Metaphysics is a branch of philosophy that investigates principles of reality transcending those of any particular science. Cosmology and ontology are traditional branches of metaphysics. It is concerned with explaining the fundamental nature of being and the world.[1]
 
YumClock
 
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 11:09 pm
@markoos,
Metaphysics isn't meaningless, it simply does not create nice, concrete truths.
 
Humanity
 
Reply Thu 11 Mar, 2010 01:16 am
@YumClock,
I don't think Metaphysics is meaningless.
It may well be meaningful and useful 'white lies' to many.

Note Kant's view on Metaphysics.
Prolegomena to Any Future Metaphysics (1783)
To Kant, it is something akin to a primal drive,

Kant wrote:

That the human mind will ever give up metaphysical researches is as little to be expected as that we should prefer to give up breathing altogether, to avoid inhaling impure air.
There will therefore always be metaphysics in the world; nay, every one, especially every man of reflection, will have it, and for want of a recognized standard, will shape it for himself after his own pattern.
What has hitherto been called metaphysics, cannot satisfy any critical mind, but to forego it entirely is impossible;


To Kant, Metaphysics is a critical necessity, but it cannot stand alone,
Quote:

Metaphysics, as a natural disposition of reason, is actual, but if considered by itself alone (as the analytical solution of the third principal question showed), [is]dialectical and illusory.
If we think of taking principles from it, and in using them follow the natural, but on that account not less false, illusion, we can never produce science, but only a vain dialectical art, in which one school may outdo another, but none can ever acquire a just and lasting approbation.


To avoid dogmatic Metaphysics, Kant proposed that it should be supplemented with his 'Critique of Pure Reason' to curb the abuses of Metaphysics to avoid the illusions (soul) and delusions (god) of pure reason.

Kant did not discourage anyone from believing in the soul and/or god, but he would expect them to understand its limitation and not take them as objective realities or beings.
 
 

 
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