A possible solution to why is there something rather than nothing.

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vectorcube
 
Reply Thu 13 Aug, 2009 06:32 am
@Krumple,
Quote:

What does this mean? Well it means that the wavelength actually determines the color you see. If you have a low energy wavelength then the wavelength is long and the light becomes more red. See a reoccurring theme here? Energy?


So what is your point? what is that say about "duality" if anything?


Quote:

This is not entirely accurate once again.



Then you don ` t understand nothing. The uncertain principle don ` t work here, because there is still virtual particles.


Quote:
Well here is the question then, can matter exist without time?



don` t know.

Quote:

If time and matter are interwoven then they are not mutually exclusive.
If they are not mutually exclusive then by all means matter/energy effect time.



How is time and matter "interwoven"? What is that even mean?
How does matter effect time, or do you mean space-time?


Quote:
But where have you heard that before?


?


Quote:

Are you sure you want to keep playing this game?



It is sad that you think i am trying to play a game with you. It is true that i think you don` t know what you are talking about at all. Let` s say I am not impressed by your knowledge at all. What really bothers me is how you give an answer without even thinking about what other people think on the matter, or how precisely did you yourself come up with your answer. The most important thing for you is not to try to prove your manhold here, but really think deeply about the issues on things that you know, and not throw a bunch of unrelated ideas that you know only at a superficial level, and declare that you have an answer.
 
Serena phil
 
Reply Thu 13 Aug, 2009 07:23 am
@vectorcube,
A physical system of no properties can exist as long as you don't insist on calling lack of properties a property. If all particles of mass, space, time, energy and so forth were depleted from a non-particulate piece of energy, this would transition from a state with n particles to a state with little to no particles which would indicate that n=0.

In a monochromatic electromagnetic field, there is a system of n photons with equal energy. The field is equivalent to a harmonic oscillator in which its quantum solutions of energy levels can be represented in layers and each layer represents a field of one more proton than the layer below. Further down, a field of no protons is not zero-energy but zero-point energy.
 
Krumple
 
Reply Thu 13 Aug, 2009 10:01 am
@vectorcube,
Quote:
So what is your point? what is that say about "duality" if anything


That is the thing you keep missing, I am not talking about duality as the point, I am saying that duality is just the convince of understanding but not actual reality. So once again, something and nothing are just two aspects to the same coin in my opinion.

Quote:
Then you don ` t understand nothing. The uncertain principle don ` t work here, because there is still virtual particles.


Well that might be but regardless of the uncertainty principle the discussion is on something rather than nothing which is right in the face of the uncertainty principle.

Quote:
How is time and matter "interwoven"? What is that even mean?


I am not saying that matter and time ARE interwoven, I was asking if they were and giving possibilities if they were. Interwoven basically implies that they can not exist without the other.

Quote:
How does matter effect time, or do you mean space-time?


Well I am not exactly convinced that matter actually does effect time. I have an experiment idea that might help prove it. It is complicated to explain so I won't here.

Quote:
It is true that i think you don` t know what you are talking about at all. Let` s say I am not impressed by your knowledge at all. What really bothers me is how you give an answer without even thinking about what other people think on the matter, or how precisely did you yourself come up with your answer.


Are you sure this isn't some sort of self reflection?
 
TickTockMan
 
Reply Thu 13 Aug, 2009 10:32 am
@Krumple,
I'm still trying to figure out why any of this even matters . . . .
 
BrightNoon
 
Reply Thu 13 Aug, 2009 10:51 am
@TickTockMan,
Same here TickTock, I'm afraid we've reverted from metaphysics back to physics.
 
vectorcube
 
Reply Thu 13 Aug, 2009 11:18 am
@Serena phil,
Serena;82952 wrote:
A physical system of no properties



Give me one example of a physical system with no properties. Give me the degree of freedom for this physical system.

Quote:

If all particles of mass, space, time, energy and so forth were depleted from a non-particulate piece of energy, this would transition from a state with n particles to a state with little to no particles which would indicate that n=0.


How is this different from a quantum oscillator, and that is obviously not nothing. What about space-time. Is that not something?


Quote:
In a monochromatic electromagnetic field, there is a system of n photons with equal energy. The field is equivalent to a harmonic oscillator in which its quantum solutions of energy levels can be represented in layers and each layer represents a field of one more proton than the layer below. Further down, a field of no protons is not zero-energy but zero-point energy



Like i said before, zero point energy is the minimum energy of a system, and thus, not nothing.

---------- Post added 08-13-2009 at 12:32 PM ----------

Krumple wrote:
I am saying that duality is just the convince of understanding but not actual reality


what are you saying here?

Quote:

Well that might be but regardless of the uncertainty principle the discussion is on something rather than nothing which is right in the face of the uncertainty principle.


Don` t make sense. I just told you that you cannot apply the uncertain principle to empty space, and get something out of it.

Quote:


basically implies that they can not exist without the other.



How do you know this?

Quote:
Well I am not exactly convinced that matter actually does effect time. I have an experiment idea that might help prove it. It is complicated to explain so I won't here



Time is not independent of space. What you mean is space-time. And matter does effect space-time, and not time.


Quote:
Are you sure this isn't some sort of self reflection?


I don` t really care. I just you want you to stop taking it personally, and get back on topic.

---------- Post added 08-13-2009 at 12:33 PM ----------

BrightNoon;83006 wrote:
Same here TickTock, I'm afraid we've reverted from metaphysics back to physics.



This does not matter a bit.
 
Aedes
 
Reply Thu 13 Aug, 2009 11:35 am
@vectorcube,
vectorcube;82941 wrote:
Then you don ` t understand nothing

Let` s say I am not impressed by your knowledge at all.
There will be no more personal attacks. This is your thread, and if you want to keep it alive, then you will keep it civil. Thanks.
 
TickTockMan
 
Reply Thu 13 Aug, 2009 02:41 pm
@vectorcube,
vectorcube;83012 wrote:
This does not matter a bit.


What does not matter a bit? That this topic has reverted from metaphysics to physics? Or that the original post itself does not matter?
 
vectorcube
 
Reply Thu 13 Aug, 2009 04:29 pm
@TickTockMan,
TickTockMan;83052 wrote:
What does not matter a bit? That this topic has reverted from metaphysics to physics? Or that the original post itself does not matter?



No, i mean physics does not matter to why there is something rather than nothing.
 
TickTockMan
 
Reply Thu 13 Aug, 2009 04:37 pm
@vectorcube,
vectorcube;83079 wrote:
No, i mean physics does not matter to why there is something rather than nothing.


Now I'm really confused. This seems contradictory somehow. Is matter not dependent on physics?

I'm not very smart, so if this could be explained to me in small words I'd be most grateful.
 
ACB
 
Reply Thu 13 Aug, 2009 05:10 pm
@TickTockMan,
Vectorcube - To bring this thread back into focus, it would be useful if you could briefly define the following terms as you have used them:

(a) world;
(b) possible world;
(c) empty world;
(d) nothing;
(e) natural state.

I realise that you have defined some of these before, but it would be useful to have all the definitions together. Thanks.

Kennethamy - I would be grateful for your comments on my post #102.
 
vectorcube
 
Reply Thu 13 Aug, 2009 05:16 pm
@TickTockMan,
TickTockMan;83081 wrote:
Now I'm really confused. This seems contradictory somehow. Is matter not dependent on physics?

I'm not very smart, so if this could be explained to me in small words I'd be most grateful.


In physics, people try to find regularities in observations( usually from experimenrss). The end result is a set of hypothesis that takes the form of mathematical equations that summerizes these regularities. In this whole process, it tells us what the world "is" according to our observations( experiements). The question concern metaphysics( and ontology in particular) is the question of what kinds of things exist( or could exist). Does a world with jelly monsters exist? What about a world that is completely described by newton` s mechanics? There is nothing wrong with the existence of this objects, but as far as we know, we have never observe jelly monsters. Physics can tell us only about that there is in the world, but metaphysics( or ontology) asks a set of deeper questions relating to what possible things could exist even if we do not have observations to back them up.

---------- Post added 08-13-2009 at 06:25 PM ----------

ACB;83088 wrote:
Vectorcube - To bring this thread back into focus, it would be useful if you could briefly define the following terms as you have used them:

(a) world;
(b) possible world;
(c) empty world;
(d) nothing;
(e) natural state.

.



a) It is not specific to just say "world". Perhaps you have in mind "actual world".

b) possible world are entities postuated to explain away modal talks about possiblilities and necessities by quantification over entities that we called possible worlds. ( you can also google the definition, because it is commonly used in analytic philosophy).

c) EW is one possible world. EW is a world without any "particulars".


d) I use the word 'nothing' as a name that refers to EW.


e) Something postuated by nozick. A naturally state is a state that requires no explanation.
 
TickTockMan
 
Reply Thu 13 Aug, 2009 06:03 pm
@vectorcube,
vectorcube;83092 wrote:
In physics, people try to find regularities in observations( usually from experimenrss). The end result is a set of hypothesis that takes the form of mathematical equations that summerizes these regularities. In this whole process, it tells us what the world "is" according to our observations( experiements)..


So Physics doesn't use the standard model of The Scientific Method which, as far as I know, is generally accepted as:

1) Ask a Question
2) Do Background Research
3) Construct a Hypothesis
4) Test Your Hypothesis by Doing an Experiment
5) Analyze Your Data and Draw a Conclusion
6) Communicate Your Results

I'm confused again because you say that the end result is a set of hypothesis (sic) that takes the form of mathematical equations.

I've actually made a blunder here myself, by suggesting that matter is dependent on Physics. Physics, of course, is just a word that describes a certain branch of science, namely the study of energy and matter, and not matter itself. I think. Sorry about that. I'm still very confused.
 
BrightNoon
 
Reply Thu 13 Aug, 2009 09:32 pm
@TickTockMan,
The relationship between physics and metaphysics is exactly as the words imply. The standards of physics cannot be used to analyze metaphysics. Physics constitutes one metaphysical perspective. Metaphysics consists of the comparison and analysis of various such perspectives. In other words, what is set as given in physics, the basic ontology, is only one of many equally plausable ontologies in metaphysics.
 
vectorcube
 
Reply Fri 14 Aug, 2009 12:56 am
@TickTockMan,
TickTockMan;83099 wrote:
So Physics doesn't use the standard model of The Scientific Method which, as far as I know, is generally accepted as:

1) Ask a Question
2) Do Background Research
3) Construct a Hypothesis
4) Test Your Hypothesis by Doing an Experiment
5) Analyze Your Data and Draw a Conclusion
6) Communicate Your Results

I'm confused again because you say that the end result is a set of hypothesis (sic) that takes the form of mathematical equations.


Sorry. I will replay later. In the mean time. You can read:

Scientific Explanation (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

I think you will benefit greatly by deeply studying the context from the above link.
 
Aedes
 
Reply Fri 14 Aug, 2009 02:14 am
@BrightNoon,
BrightNoon;83156 wrote:
The standards of physics cannot be used to analyze metaphysics. In other words, what is set as given in physics, the basic ontology, is only one of many equally plausable ontologies in metaphysics.
Yet physics is the only one that can be corroborated by your senses and observation. And physics is the only one that can be corroborated by other people without linguistic manipulation.

Metaphysics is a great reflection of the human mind. But I've yet to hear why we should believe it has any relationship with the world.
 
Serena phil
 
Reply Fri 14 Aug, 2009 05:55 am
@vectorcube,
To continuously attempt to analyze and solve the concepts of "nothing" and the reasons for existence becomes just as redundant as attempting to solve the meanings of and for God. Although it is essentially the same scenario, "God" could replace the terms "nothing" and "something." It once again draws an infinite circle of calculations and theories with no solution because "nothing" and "something" and it's reasons for being cannot be universally and logistically justified.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Fri 14 Aug, 2009 06:08 am
@Serena phil,
Serena;83195 wrote:
To continuously attempt to analyze and solve the concepts of "nothing" and the reasons for existence becomes just as redundant as attempting to solve the meanings of and for God. Although it is essentially the same scenario, "God" could replace the terms "nothing" and "something." It once again draws an infinite circle of calculations and theories with no solution because "nothing" and "something" and it's reasons for being cannot be universally and logistically justified.



Oh. Thanks, I was wondering about that. (By the way, how do you know that?)
 
Serena phil
 
Reply Fri 14 Aug, 2009 06:29 am
@vectorcube,
I'm not implying that there can't be a solution, but so far all theories and "solutions" pertaining to infinite questions such as this only evokes further conflicting arguments with no conclusions or satisfying compromises. I don't know what 'could be,' and I can gracefully accept that.
 
TickTockMan
 
Reply Fri 14 Aug, 2009 10:28 am
@vectorcube,
vectorcube;83170 wrote:
Sorry. I will replay later. In the mean time. You can read:

Scientific Explanation (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

I think you will benefit greatly by deeply studying the context from the above link.


Thanks. I'll try to wade through all the big words on this link. So far it seems interesting, like it might be a good model to explain how Intelligent Design could be considered scientific.
 
 

 
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