A possible solution to why is there something rather than nothing.

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Caroline
 
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2009 03:34 am
@vectorcube,
Eternity-Imagine the planet earth is a ball made of steel and a dove is orbiting around it in space, (of course),and once every orbit it swoops down and gently brushes the globe slightly with it's wing, eternity is the time it takes for the ball to disappear down to nothing by it's gentle brushing of the doves wing, that's a mighty long time. That's a well known saying by the way.
Thanks.
 
xris
 
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2009 03:43 am
@Caroline,
Infinity is less than a second away and it will take an eternity to get there.

To assume that a known mass will have an effect on the life of eternity is rather like assuming an infinite amount of mass is not nothing.
 
Pathfinder
 
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2009 03:59 am
@vectorcube,
Those are two very strange analogies of what eternity means. the flight of the dove suggests nothing more than gradual erosion which is definitely measurable. And if something is a second away, than it will take one second to arrive there. That is measurable.

You guys are not answering the question, you are avoiding it with fancy words.
 
Caroline
 
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2009 04:11 am
@vectorcube,
Ok Pathifinder, how about when you take everything away, the Earth the universe, what is left? Nothing? Describe that nothing. It has to be something, if only thin air or something. Thas is why it is infinite.
Cheers!
 
xris
 
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2009 04:22 am
@Pathfinder,
Pathfinder;97615 wrote:
Those are two very strange analogies of what eternity means. the flight of the dove suggests nothing more than gradual erosion which is definitely measurable. And if something is a second away, than it will take one second to arrive there. That is measurable.

You guys are not answering the question, you are avoiding it with fancy words.
Well you tell me how far away it is? Don't assume we have not considered the question. I know it cant be measured , if you consider this moment in time eternity is only ever just , metaphorically speaking ,less than a second away. It is an impossible image just like nothing or everything.
 
Caroline
 
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2009 04:24 am
@vectorcube,
I can't imagine how long the globe would take to wear away.
 
Alan McDougall
 
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2009 04:34 am
@Caroline,
Caroline;97619 wrote:
I can't imagine how long the globe would take to wear away.


Caroline you avatar is sweet!

Lets first try to absorb how long a google year is and then look at eternity

One 'googol' year, is how much? It is the current age of the Universe, one billion billion billion billion billion billion billion billion billion billion times over. Squeeze the entire history of our Universe into the thickness of a rand note, and one-googol years would give you a pile of money that reaches one hundred quadrillion, quadrillion, quadrillion, quadrillion, light years high. It would not even fit into a universe a billion, billion, billion, times larger than our own immense universe. How small fleeting and insignificant we are we are?


One googol year. That's truly staggering. Beyond anything, a human can comprehend. Nevertheless, infinitely small when compared to eternity. If a small bird sharpened its beak on the peak of mount Everest, once every zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion,, zillion, zillion, zillion, zillion ,zillion, google years, When the mountain is completely worn down, the first moment of eternity would not yet have occurred.

Makes one think does it not!
Alan
 
Pathfinder
 
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2009 05:49 am
@Caroline,
Caroline;97616 wrote:
Ok Pathifinder, how about when you take everything away, the Earth the universe, what is left? Nothing? Describe that nothing. It has to be something, if only thin air or something. Thas is why it is infinite.
Cheers!




you cannot take away anything. You can move it to another location but it does not disappear from reality.

There is no such thing as no thing as long as there is some thing to judge it from.

Trying to define what you do not understand with terms like infinity and eternity is just another way of saying that you do not know.
 
Caroline
 
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2009 05:59 am
@vectorcube,
Exactly I do not know but there had to be something before the big bang, what surrounded the dense mass before it exploded into the universe and where did it come from?
Thanks.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2009 06:30 am
@Caroline,
Caroline;97627 wrote:
Exactly I do not know but there had to be something before the big bang, what surrounded the dense mass before it exploded into the universe and where did it come from?
Thanks.


Why must it have come from anywhere?
 
vectorcube
 
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2009 06:46 am
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;97635 wrote:
Why must it have come from anywhere?

Do you prefer it comes from no where?
 
Caroline
 
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2009 06:48 am
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;97635 wrote:
Why must it have come from anywhere?

Good question, how did it get there? You mean it was just there?
Thanks.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2009 07:04 am
@Caroline,
Caroline;97639 wrote:
Good question, how did it get there? You mean it was just there?
Thanks.


Yes. Wherever there is. Why assume that nothing is the natural state, and that you have to explain why there is something? Why isn't something the natural state, and, then, nothing would have to be explained? (Since there would be then nothing to explain).
 
xris
 
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2009 07:09 am
@vectorcube,
vectorcube;97638 wrote:
Do you prefer it comes from no where?
You claim there is a nowhere, so tell us where it is?
 
Caroline
 
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2009 07:09 am
@vectorcube,
Because Kennathmy, I think that it has to come from somewhere, that's what makes me curious. I cannot find one thing that is just 'there', can you?
Thanks.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2009 07:20 am
@Caroline,
Caroline;97649 wrote:
Because Kennathmy, I think that it has to come from somewhere, that's what makes me curious. I cannot find one thing that is just 'there', can you?
Thanks.


Maybe it is the universe that is just there. You cannot argue (as you seem to be) that because everything in the universe has a cause that the universe has a cause. That form of argument would be the fallacy of composition. It does not follow that because all the parts of a whole have a particular property, that the whole has that property.

Fallacy: Composition
 
Caroline
 
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2009 07:32 am
@vectorcube,
The thoery behind the big bang is that there was a small extremely dense mass and it was hit by something and it exploded, ie,the universe expanding, so I think it came from this dense mass but where did that come from?
Thanks.

---------- Post added 10-15-2009 at 08:33 AM ----------

I'd appreciate it if you didn't do an Ody on me, I don't have the time nor will to read your links.
Thanks.
 
EmperorNero
 
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2009 08:37 am
@Pathfinder,
Pathfinder;97600 wrote:
Why not?

Walking around a globe is not a comparison because you are walking in circles. Are you suggesting that the universe is a globe and that one would end up back where they started?


Yes, I am suggesting that it is that way on another level, one we can't imagine now like we couldn't imagine the earth isn't flat one time.
 
xris
 
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2009 08:52 am
@EmperorNero,
EmperorNero;97665 wrote:
Yes, I am suggesting that it is that way on another level, one we can't imagine now like we couldn't imagine the earth isn't flat one time.
I have heard that theory of time and space , if you could travel in straight line you might just end up where you started.
 
Bhaktajan
 
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2009 09:03 am
@vectorcube,
Q. You claim there is a nowhere, so tell us where it is?

A. Absolute Zero.

Specifically the "space" [in constrast to "state"] of Absolute Zero is a void.

The void along with the aggregate "Elements" [ie: matter & energy in all forms an all stratums] come into being simultaneously and thus are eachothers' "other-half" ---

The Void & the Elements are polar opposites of each others beings. Einstiens Theory of Relativity affirmed this.

---------- Post added 10-15-2009 at 03:13 PM ----------

The Void ---by it's inherent innate characteristics, via measurements & observations and by definition is:

Omniscient, eternally unchanging, omni-present . . . and if is co-partnered with the cosmic matter & energy [a 'displacement'-?] apparently the void may be "Omnipotent" too into the bargain.

---------- Post added 10-15-2009 at 03:36 PM ----------

The term "Ying and Yang" refers to the Principle of Duality that is both the basic formula and also the end product of the churning of the cosmic machinery.

So, likewise, The Void & the Elements are the same Principle of Duality expressed in its very existance.

India's scriptures called that Void "Brahman".

reference:
"Concept of Shunya (Zero)"
The concept of Shunya, or zero void, was originally conceived as the symbol of Brahman, expressing the sum of all distinct forms. The symbol of zero and the decimal system of notation is described in the . . .
http://www.hindupedia.com/en/Mathematics_of_the_Vedas


In addition, India's scriptures elaborate that "Brahman" [unchanging, unborn-able, non-material, Omniscient, eternally unchanging, omni-present . . .] is also the same 'stuff' as individual souls.

Ergo, individual souls are constituted of "Eternal Consciousness blissfullness" [sat-cit-ananda].

One school of Hindu mysticism says, that ''made-of-Brahman-individual soul" may merge back into its primordial origin, namely Brahman, and thus never to be re-born into a material body.

Another school of Hindu mysticism says, that ''made-of-Brahman-individual soul" may take unlimited births each time acquiring different heavenly stratums of Living-Standards [pursuit of good future Karma (Actions)].

Lastly, Another school of Hindu mysticism says, that ''made-of-Brahman-individual soul" may transcend to "manifest material cosmos of Time & space" and entre the Realms outside the World of the play of Brahman & the Material elements & Time . . .

.
 
 

 
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