Fate and Free Will - My thoughts (please critique)

@Holiday20310401,

Holiday20310401;65679 wrote:

And Click Here, you say this is absurd (that's what I gathered anyways), yet absurd is such a subjective interpretation of what goes on in the environment to be assuming this objective divinity exists. Absurdity is a point of view, it's not the point of view of what is absurd. There is plenty of research that says consciousness is not the decision making process.

God exists because of moral aims, and what is the moral aim in believing in God here?

Likewise, existential nihilism does not require there to be free will in actuality or lack of determinism

I'm not saying that I believe in God because of this, I have already presupposed God's existence for other reasons. In doing so it allows me to 'pat myself on the back' if you will as I am not stuck with accepting this lack of free will that Kenneth here is having trouble grasping. Why is he having trouble grasping it? Because it just makes sense that we can freely make our own choices, get up, walk away from the computer and ride a bike around town, it's to easy to blindly think in front of a computer. Free will with the existence of God gets complicated as well but that's a whole different topic.

---------- Post added at 04:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:51 PM ----------

xris;65706 wrote:

Sorry Click but are you saying that his decissions are predetermined?

I'm not saying that they are predetermined but they must be accepted to be theoretically determinable.

It's slightly more complicated then calculating the trajectory of a rock, but nonetheless theoretically doable. About the whole QM 'issue' I'm trying my best to reconcile that in another thread.

@click here,

click here;65707 wrote:

I'm not saying that I believe in God because of this, I have already presupposed God's existence for other reasons. In doing so it allows me to 'pat myself on the back' if you will as I am not stuck with accepting this lack of free will that Kenneth here is having trouble grasping. Why is he having trouble grasping it? Because it just makes sense that we can freely make our own choices, get up, walk away from the computer and ride a bike around town, it's to easy to blindly think in front of a computer. Free will with the existence of God gets complicated as well but that's a whole different topic.

---------- Post added at 04:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:51 PM ----------

.

You misunderstand. I "grasp" why you think there is not free will. No problem there. I just think you are wrong, and that there is free will. You shouldn't think that just because someone disagrees with you, that he does not understand you. That view means that you are always right, even if others disagree. I don't know why you think that God has anything to do with whether there is free will, but maybe you will let me know.

By the way, if you want to know why I think I sometimes do things of my own free will, it is because I sometimes do things and I am not compelled to do them. For instance, I am not compelled to write this post to you, so I am writing it of my own free will. Unless you know more about it than I do (and here I am sitting here) why would you think that I am being compelled to write this post (if you do)? What do you know that I don't know about why I am writing this post?

@kennethamy,

kennethamy;65718 wrote:

You misunderstand. I "grasp" why you think there is not free will. No problem there. I just think you are wrong, and that there is free will. You shouldn't think that just because someone disagrees with you, that he does not understand you. That view means that you are always right, even if others disagree. I don't know why you think that God has anything to do with whether there is free will, but maybe you will let me know.

By the way, if you want to know why I think I sometimes do things of my own free will, it is because I sometimes do things and I am not compelled to do them. For instance, I am not compelled to write this post to you, so I am writing it of my own free will. Unless you know more about it than I do (and here I am sitting here) why would you think that I am being compelled to write this post (if you do)? What do you know that I don't know about why I am writing this post?

You do know that there are LOADS of atheists just like you whom deny the existence of free will and label consciousness as a delusion. I think if you truly did understand me then you would see how it simply is factual that you have no ability to choose and that you are wrong in your assumptions.

No you have no choice but to write your post to me. Your body developed physical traits and needs that must be fulfilled. Which lead to your desire to prove yourself correct in this situation. Then in reading this reply I have written you will again, even more likely reply, as I have said blatantly that you are wrong. (above) So if your body developed traits to defend yourself you will respond of course there are also an infinite number of variables to effect the situation. I could say, I will give you 1 million dollars to not reply to this very post, and if you really wanted the money you would probably choose to take the money and not reply. Though perhaps you have this innate developed tendency in your brain to reject the 'normal' response for that which is 'not normal' in that case you may throw away the 1 million and reply. Now if I end this post off with a big smiley and say "your the best!" Then in doing so I may increase the 'happy neurons' in your brain which would, from past events, likely cause you to respond in an ever so more cheery mood.

You keep saying that you have this 'ability' to control your neurons. But what physical part of your body house this ability? Is not that physical part of your body governed by the same laws of nature as the rest of the world? If so then that part of your body will not be controlled by anything as you call it the 'controlling part of you'. If it is, then what ever drives the controlling part of you is not controlled by you.

Erghh.. if you just gave me 30 min in person with you, I think we could have this reconciled, I am much better in person.

@click here,

If you believe in god do you believe he gave us the free will to decide if we believed him or not?

@xris,

xris;65726 wrote:

If you believe in god do you believe he gave us the free will to decide if we believed him or not?

Start another thread, or shoot me a PM and I'll be happy to respond.

@click here,

click here;65728 wrote:

Start another thread, or shoot me a PM and I'll be happy to respond.

No sorry but it is relevant because you claim belief in god but not free will.The two are not compatible.

@xris,

xris;65730 wrote:

No sorry but it is relevant because you claim belief in god but not free will.The two are not compatible.

Oh hmmm.... Don't you have to first ask me how I define my views of God before asserting that my views of God are incompatible with my views of free will?

That would seem like the logical route to start on.

@click here,

click here;65734 wrote:

Oh hmmm.... Don't you have to first ask me how I define my views of God before asserting that my views of God are incompatible with my views of free will?

That would seem like the logical route to start on.

Well as god usually means a certain intention then it is relevant, otherwise why should you mention it.I believe in Peter Pan but i dont see the point in informing you at this point of a debate as it is not relevant.You dont believe in a determined universe but you do a determined human.You believe in god but not a soul.You are very complex in your views.

@xris,

xris;65737 wrote:

Well as god usually means a certain intention then it is relevant,

What does it mean to say that god means a certain intention?

@click here,

Hey

God really gets a lot of media attention even though most don't think he exists. I have been severely rapped over the knuckles for suggestion such an outrageous idea that there might, just might be a god , just might

In the remote possibility that he just might exist, I think we should be more careful in insulting him, one never knows we might have to account for our deeds after we die

So I never blaspheme or insult the Infinite being, be safe don't do it!!

@click here,

Quote:

God really gets a lot of media attention even though most don't think he exists.

Where do you get most from? This is a typical statement from Christians as if they are a minority. They are not.

In the US the majority of Americans are Christians. This is why there is so much media coverage. So don't try to slip the statement,"most don't think he exists."

Quote:

In the remote possibility that he just might exist, I think we should be more careful in insulting him, one never knows we might have to account for our deeds after we die

Well why don't you worry about Zeus being possibly real, or all the other gods from all the other religions or theologies? What if you just might, just might, have to account for your deeds against them?

You really want to play this silly game?

Quote:

So I never blaspheme or insult the Infinite being, be safe don't do it!!

I don't want to play your game, so please quit inviting me.

@Krumple,

Krumple;66254 wrote:

Where do you get most from? This is a typical statement from Christians as if they are a minority. They are not.

In the US the majority of Americans are Christians. This is why there is so much media coverage. So don't try to slip the statement,"most don't think he exists."

Well why don't you worry about Zeus being possibly real, or all the other gods from all the other religions or theologies? What if you just might, just might, have to account for your deeds against them?

You really want to play this silly game?

I don't want to play your game, so please quit inviting me.

Come right out with it, somehow you really dislike me and all my attempts to be friendly have gone up in flames

So you are teaching me to reciprocate

Oh what silly game is this?, you are the "knowall" in this thread not me, I admit I am fallible even stupid at times

I have a very very volatile nature and you have helped me a lot, reading your "STUFF" makes me grit my few remaining teeth, and read the other polite meaningful posts of other more enlightened members on the forum

Why why is it necessary to try and put a person down , show them up and prove how intelligent you are and how stupid the rest of us are when compared to your infinite intellect???

It must be very difficult for you to lower yourself to the level of us lesser mortals on the forum, because we simply cannot fathom your hugely insightful mind

Gosh I forgot to tell you I am putting on my loin cloth and go out hunting lions with my new African Zulu spear

@click here,

Quote:

Come right out with it, somehow you really dislike me and all my attempts to be friendly have gone up in flames

Oh, that was you trying to be friendly?

Quote:

So you are teaching me to reciprocate

I don't know, are you implying I shouldn't respond to your comments?

Quote:

Oh what silly game is this?, you are the "knowall" in this thread not me, I admit I am fallible even stupid at times

I'll admit that I am not very tactful sometimes with my word usage. I just tend to get a little frustrated when the abundance of literature out there debunks some of the concepts you post here. It was not me calling you stupid, I am not calling myself a genius, it is just a response to your posting.

Quote:

I have a very very volatile nature and you have helped me a lot, reading your "STUFF" makes me grit my few remaining teeth, and read the other polite meaningful posts of other more enlightened members on the forum

Well you can chose not to read any of my posts? See my name just skip over it. That might save your teeth.

Quote:

Why why is it necessary to try and put a person down , show them up and prove how intelligent you are and how stupid the rest of us are when compared to your infinite intellect???

I put you down? Prove my intelligence? I don't think the rest of the board is stupid at all, in fact I welcome conversation all the time in the chat room. Have discussions and debate topics, I in no way assume any superiority. I might disagree but the reason I even join the conversation is to possibly learn something, to over come my own bias. You writing this means that you do not want to over come any bias, but instead you want me to shut up?

Quote:

It must be very difficult for you to lower yourself to the level of us lesser mortals on the forum, because we simply cannot fathom your hugely insightful mind

Conjecture. Playing the sympathy card?

@click here,

Krumple,

Yes in fact I am going to crumple you up and ignore you from now on

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