Why is have sex with underage girls wrong? and snuff porn?

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Emil
 
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 09:22 pm
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;151193 wrote:
Then thing is, in buisness we don't hire people en mass, there are only so many jobs to give, that's why it's nessesary to discriminate and be selective.

With law, you have to adhere the law of equallity, the morals line, the ethics ..etc. Buisnesses are not bound nor shall adhere such rules and guidelines, I don't know why you make such poor comparison.


For those who are wondering what "en mass" is supposed to mean, it is a misspelling of the french en masse which is a common expression in danish. It means a lot.

en masse - Wiktionary
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 09:33 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic;151160 wrote:
Emil does seem to have a good point of view and you yourself seem to be a business person. When you hire do you screen for aptitude or any other mental abilities? Would this be discriminating if you did? Does this logic only apply to business?:detective:
Ahem let me slap myself in the face and try with a more suble approach.

Yes, we screen for aptitude, suited for the specific job, least I do. Also the personal traits, will this person fit into a team, as in not being too arrogant, agressive ..etc.
But ..if the person does have qualifications that will justify a poor personal character, his qualifications may outweigh his poor character to a certain degree.

Skilled people are hard to find, after all.
 
William
 
Reply Tue 13 Apr, 2010 04:42 pm
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;151202 wrote:

But ..if the person does have qualifications that will justify a poor personal character, his qualifications may outweigh his poor character to a certain degree. Skilled people are hard to find, after all.


I can't even begin to say how many ways I disagree with the above statement. It's like hiring someone who does a good job but spends his free time crapping in your lunch box. If a person had poor character and it were known before hand, the only employer who would do that would be one who would not know the difference. It would make me wonder exactly what kind of team he has that he wants this person to be a part of? Hmm?

William
 
reasoning logic
 
Reply Tue 13 Apr, 2010 04:57 pm
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;151193 wrote:
Then thing is, in buisness we don't hire people en mass, there are only so many jobs to give, that's why it's nessesary to discriminate and be selective.

With law, you have to adhere the law of equallity, the morals line, the ethics ..etc. Buisnesses are not bound nor shall adhere such rules and guidelines, I don't know why you make such poor comparison.



I do apologize for the poor comparison I should have used more clarification. [This is only my opinion and is not 100% fact] I do think that you are being logical to be discriminative and selective in what you are doing as it is for a good cause.

Being discrimative and selective is not always evil some times it is good. What I was trying to to say was that not everyone has the same exact neurobiological makeup nor the same psychological makeup therefore they should be treated differently in a court of law or society as well.

Example a 26 year old male and a 16 year old girl engaged in consensaul sex.
I do believe that it should be taught as morally wrong thing to do but who is to say that the psychological make up of the 26 year old male is any better than the 16 year old girl. Should a test be taken on the psychological make up on the people being acused of a crime to determine that they meet our expectations of comprehension?:detective:
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Tue 13 Apr, 2010 05:22 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic;151551 wrote:
What I was trying to to say was that not everyone has the same exact neurobiological makeup nor the same psychological makeup therefore they should be treated differently in a court of law or society as well.

Example a 26 year old male and a 16 year old girl engaged in consensaul sex.
I do believe that it should be taught as morally wrong thing to do but who is to say that the psychological make up of the 26 year old male is any better than the 16 year old girl. Should a test be taken on the psychological make up on the people being acused of a crime to determine that they meet our expectations of comprehension?:detective:
I don't quite catch this "makeup"-anology, everybody is equal for the law, and that's the only what I see it. I interpet it as from the most humblest of bum in the ally, sipping alcohol, to the mightiest of leaders, they shall all have the same fair treatmen from the law, that in benefit as punishment.

You are emotional as slack on the rules, because it's a subject that you can relate to, that the subject "love" appeals to you, maybe not in the specific matter, but as a whole.

The thing is, maybe it's ok for that specific case, but it will affect other people, if you don't punish that case, other will think it's ok, because the law looks away for such encounters.

There are countries where the laws are lean, but the people does not accept such law from a moral standpoint.
 
reasoning logic
 
Reply Tue 13 Apr, 2010 05:28 pm
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;151554 wrote:
I don't quite catch this "makeup"-anology, everybody is equal for the law, and that's the only what I see it. I interpet it as from the most humblest of bum in the ally, sipping alcohol, to the mightiest of leaders, they shall all have the same fair treatmen from the law, that in benefit as punishment.

You are emotional as slack on the rules, because it's a subject that you can relate to, that the subject "love" appeals to you, maybe not in the specific matter, but as a whole.

The thing is, maybe it's ok for that specific case, but it will affect other people, if you don't punish that case, other will think it's ok, because the law looks away for such encounters.

There are countries where the laws are lean, but the people does not accept such law from a moral standpoint.


We are all [confirmation bias]:detective: and if we can see this it can some times help but not always. I do believe that Socrates may have been the first to see this but then again I can always be wrong:)
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Tue 13 Apr, 2010 05:30 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic;151555 wrote:
We are all [confirmation bias]:detective: and if we can see this it can some times help but not always. I do believe that Socrates may have been the first to see this but then again I can always be wrong:)
? you lost me! :Not-Impressed:
 
reasoning logic
 
Reply Tue 13 Apr, 2010 05:33 pm
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;151557 wrote:
? you lost me! :Not-Impressed:


Wikipedia [confirmation bias]:detective:
 
Pyrrho
 
Reply Tue 13 Apr, 2010 06:12 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic;151551 wrote:
I do apologize for the poor comparison I should have used more clarification. [This is only my opinion and is not 100% fact] I do think that you are being logical to be discriminative and selective in what you are doing as it is for a good cause.

Being discrimative and selective is not always evil some times it is good. What I was trying to to say was that not everyone has the same exact neurobiological makeup nor the same psychological makeup therefore they should be treated differently in a court of law or society as well.

Example a 26 year old male and a 16 year old girl engaged in consensaul sex.
I do believe that it should be taught as morally wrong thing to do but who is to say that the psychological make up of the 26 year old male is any better than the 16 year old girl. Should a test be taken on the psychological make up on the people being acused of a crime to determine that they meet our expectations of comprehension?:detective:



The reason countries [all?] pick an age for such things is because it would be impractical to test everyone to see if and when they are sufficiently mature to make such decisions. And there is a trouble of coming up with a fair test, which may prove much more difficult than most people think at first. (If you think it would be easy, come up with a test and show it to us.) But even if one had a good test ready to use, it would be prohibitively expensive to test everyone, with many people being tested over and over, as they may have failed the first few times they took the test, and so they would need to be tested the next year (or whatever interval was judged appropriate) to see if they were then sufficiently mature. And people would have to be issued "maturity licenses", as otherwise other people would not know who passed and who failed the test. As all of that is absurdly impractical, an age is set such that, supposedly, the generality of humanity is going to be sufficiently mature at that age for whatever purpose we are discussing (as there are ages set in many countries for drinking, smoking, having sex, etc.).
 
ughaibu
 
Reply Tue 13 Apr, 2010 10:38 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic;151551 wrote:
Example a 26 year old male and a 16 year old girl engaged in consensaul sex.
I do believe that it should be taught as morally wrong thing to do. . . .
What's the age of consent in Florida?
 
north
 
Reply Tue 13 Apr, 2010 11:53 pm
@ughaibu,
Why is have sex with underage girls wrong? and snuff porn?

because to the girl , it is devastating to the girls self esteem and rights as simply being , a Human Being

from a HUMANE point of view

when we treat any Human being as being below being Human , we are in trouble , as a civilized Humanity

north
 
Emil
 
Reply Wed 14 Apr, 2010 03:08 am
@ughaibu,
ughaibu;151660 wrote:
What's the age of consent in Florida?


Age of consent - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ages of consent in North America - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:
Florida

The age of consent in Florida is 18, but close in age exemptions exist. By law, the exception permits a person 23 years of age or younger to engage in legal sexual activity with a minor aged 16 or 17.
794.05 Unlawful sexual activity with certain minors.-- (1) A person 24 years of age or older who engages in sexual activity with a person 16 or 17 years of age commits a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084. As used in this section, "sexual activity" means oral, anal, or vaginal penetration by, or union with, the sexual organ of another; however, sexual activity does not include an act done for a bona fide medical purpose Florida code, Title XLVI, Chapter 794
 
ughaibu
 
Reply Wed 14 Apr, 2010 06:29 am
@TuringEquivalent,
I see. Thank you.
 
Khethil
 
Reply Wed 14 Apr, 2010 06:55 am
@TuringEquivalent,
TuringEquivalent;150516 wrote:
Why is have sex with underage girls wrong?snuff porn ? women being tortured?


You know, I've seen this thread popping up for the last few days. I winced at it and expected its embarrassingly obvious answer would pop up and it'd go away. This is probably a terse way to look at it; so, private apologies there. Perhaps it is a good question to flesh out. I'm no expert, nor perhaps do I even have the right terminology, but I'll explain why I think these things are wrong. Note please that I make no direct-correlation between what's legal and ethically/morally wrong.[INDENT]Having sex with underage people is unethical because it carries with it likely results which can damage minds where they're not prepared psychologically for sexual expression. Through sexual activity with adults, young minds are usually traumatized and end up developing various behavioral and neurological dysfunctions including post traumatic stress disorder, depression, substance abuse and much more (here's a basic summary of the phenomena (link) - despite being Wiki, I think it still provides a generally accurate overview).
[/INDENT][INDENT]Snuff porn includes executing someone as part of the actual filming/formulating of that type of pornography. Since this involves killing a human being, I'd hope there's no need to explain why that might be wrong.
[/INDENT][INDENT]Women being Tortured: Torture is unethical because it involves purposefully inflicting pain on someone. No living thing that can feel pain should be exposed to any pain unless such is absolutely unavoidable. Based on the idea of mutual coexistence and reciprocity; we can exist together only with the spoken or unspoken agreement that what I inflict on you isn't something I'd be OK with inflicting on myself.
[/INDENT]Like I mentioned above... these things seem rather self-evident. Why would we ask? To perhaps just 'remind'? Or are there other/larger issues intended?

Thanks
 
xris
 
Reply Wed 14 Apr, 2010 07:38 am
@Khethil,
Thanks for making the blatantly obvious, clear and simple, to those who can not see it, Khetil. I thought it was just me, bemused by the question.
 
Jackofalltrades phil
 
Reply Wed 14 Apr, 2010 09:32 am
@Khethil,
Khethil;151769 wrote:

[INDENT]Snuff porn includes executing someone as part of the actual filming/formulating of that type of pornography. Since this involves killing a human being, I'd hope there's no need to explain why that might be wrong.
[/INDENT]

Oh!...... how i wanted to ask this question before. What is snuff porn?
....... did you say, 'executing someone' and 'killing', ????........ does this happen, or is it a weird melodrama........ or am i ignorant and dumb about this.

-------

okay, i thought i would not be able to suffer the ignoble attribute of being the dumbest guy around, so i quickly went to wik, and found something on snuff films, but nothing there was stated on porn.

Now whats a murder to do with porn?........ am i the one who is crazy, or has the world gone crazy beyond redemption?????
 
Khethil
 
Reply Wed 14 Apr, 2010 09:56 am
@Jackofalltrades phil,
Jackofalltrades;151819 wrote:
Now whats a murder to do with porn?........ am i the one who is crazy, or has the world gone crazy beyond redemption?????


I don't think porn and snuff films necessarily have anything to do together. Given the OP's question, it seemed plain Snuff Porn was what was being asked about.

... if not, I'll happily take that place as the one who's been mistaken Smile
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Wed 14 Apr, 2010 10:52 am
@Khethil,
Khethil;151769 wrote:
Having sex with underage people is unethical because it carries with it likely results which can damage minds where they're not prepared psychologically for sexual expression. Through sexual activity with adults, young minds are usually traumatized and end up developing various behavioral and neurological dysfunctions including post traumatic stress disorder, depression, substance abuse and much more (here's a basic summary of the phenomena (link) - despite being Wiki, I think it still provides a generally accurate overview).
I must fully agree, and applaud how very well put it was.
[INDENT]
Khethil;151769 wrote:
Snuff porn includes executing someone as part of the actual filming/formulating of that type of pornography. Since this involves killing a human being, I'd hope there's no need to explain why that might be wrong.
Maybe it's me, but we have horror movies, where mangling of people and sometimes killing them is a broadly accepted kind of entertainment. Why can't this be combined with porn?
[/INDENT][INDENT]
Khethil;151769 wrote:
Women being Tortured: Torture is unethical because it involves purposefully inflicting pain on someone. No living thing that can feel pain should be exposed to any pain unless such is absolutely unavoidable. Based on the idea of mutual coexistence and reciprocity; we can exist together only with the spoken or unspoken agreement that what I inflict on you isn't something I'd be OK with inflicting on myself.
Then we must ban horror movies too?
[/INDENT]
 
Transcend
 
Reply Wed 14 Apr, 2010 11:55 am
@Khethil,
Khethil;151769 wrote:
[INDENT]Women being Tortured: Torture is unethical because it involves purposefully inflicting pain on someone. No living thing that can feel pain should be exposed to any pain unless such is absolutely unavoidable. Based on the idea of mutual coexistence and reciprocity; we can exist together only with the spoken or unspoken agreement that what I inflict on you isn't something I'd be OK with inflicting on myself.
[/INDENT] Thanks


I suppose we have to cover all bases with this discussion. So, I should point out that those who derive sexual pleasure from pain (ie sodomasochism) would be an exception here.

Would I be right in saying that the law sets out what they deem to be moral in statutary (or common law) form? Going off this assumption, the fact that the girls are underage reflects this in that if they are indeed underage, the law deems them unready to engage, both mentally and physically, in sexual activities. Of course, there are exceptions to the law as this recent case shows.

As for snuff films, as Khethil said, it depicts the murder of a human, so it's clear why this is wrong. Or have I made a major error, and muder is ok?

I think not. :whistling:
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Wed 14 Apr, 2010 11:58 am
@Transcend,
Transcend;151880 wrote:
As for snuff films, as Khethil said, it depicts the murder of a human, so it's clear why this is wrong. Or have I made a major error, and muder is ok?

I think not. :whistling:
Do you even know what you are saying? Ban war movies, ban action movies, ban horror movies ..ban 70% of all movies then!
 
 

 
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