70 years without food and water

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jeeprs
 
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 04:27 am
A story has been posted in the Sydney Morning Herald about an Indian yogi who claims not to have taken food or water for 7 decades.

Quote:
An 83-year-old Indian holy man who says he has spent seven decades without food or water has astounded a team of military doctors who studied him during a two-week observation period.

Prahlad Jani spent a fortnight in a hospital in the western India state of Gujarat under constant surveillance from a team of 30 medics equipped with cameras and closed circuit television.


During the period, he neither ate nor drank and did not go to the toilet.
"We still do not know how he survives," neurologist Sudhir Shah told reporters after the end of the experiment.
Source

Of course, this is not possible according to science. But Indian yogis have a track record of doing things that are impossible according to science.
 
G-Thomson
 
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 07:33 am
@jeeprs,
This one really confused me.
I just don't know where to start.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 07:34 am
@jeeprs,
jeeprs;162338 wrote:


Of course, this is not possible according to science. But Indian yogis have a track record of doing things that are impossible according to science.


In which case, of course, either science is wrong, or, there is another possibility; The track record is not merely wrong, but at least in this case, preposterous. As Hume said, "The wise man proportions his beliefs to the probabilities". (Essay on Miracles).
 
mark noble
 
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 07:59 am
@kennethamy,
Hello all,

Sensationalism at its most preposterous! Organic as the yogi is - his cell structure cannot self-replenish itself without the introduction of protein-based matter and hydration - The mind can suspend the effects of malnutrition/hydration for a much longer period than this, but what you will discover within 6 weeks or so is that you are force-feeding a terminally-ill indian fella with a detracted Christ-complex.

I urge that none of his fellow villagers are sucked in by this. I mean - look at what the original psychopath "Moses" has left us with.

Thank you and fare well

Mark...
 
salima
 
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 08:10 am
@jeeprs,
so this is what, a conspiracy that the team of military doctors and hospital are taking part in? i had already read about this, and this is the second test that has been done on this man-the first was for ten days, i dont recall if it was by a different hospital or whatever, or even in the same state.

i dont have any opinion on whether or not it is possible-but there are some things i have noticed when i hear stories like this (and there are others). such as the people who claim to do this and have not been proved phonies dont seem to be doing much of anything-they arent contributing in any way to the human race. they also dont seem to be accumulating a lot of wealth or taking donations. they arent highly publicized and dont create a big commotion (like some others do who develop a huge following for no particular reason).
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 08:10 am
@mark noble,
mark noble;162373 wrote:
Hello all,

Sensationalism at its most preposterous! Organic as the yogi is - his cell structure cannot self-replenish itself without the introduction of protein-based matter and hydration - The mind can suspend the effects of malnutrition/hydration for a much longer period than this, but what you will discover within 6 weeks or so is that you are force-feeding a terminally-ill indian fella with a detracted Christ-complex.

I urge that none of his fellow villagers are sucked in by this. I mean - look at what the original psychopath "Moses" has left us with.

Thank you and fare well

Mark...


Yes. I imagine that the Yogi must have slipped in a few grains of rice or even a chapati when he thought no one was looking.
 
mark noble
 
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 08:20 am
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;162378 wrote:
Yes. I imagine that the Yogi must have slipped in a few grains of rice or even a chapati when he thought no one was looking.




Hello Ken

Touche...

Mark...

---------- Post added 05-10-2010 at 03:28 PM ----------

salima;162377 wrote:
so this is what, a conspiracy that the team of military doctors and hospital are taking part in? i had already read about this, and this is the second test that has been done on this man-the first was for ten days, i dont recall if it was by a different hospital or whatever, or even in the same state.

i dont have any opinion on whether or not it is possible-but there are some things i have noticed when i hear stories like this (and there are others). such as the people who claim to do this and have not been proved phonies dont seem to be doing much of anything-they arent contributing in any way to the human race. they also dont seem to be accumulating a lot of wealth or taking donations. they arent highly publicized and dont create a big commotion (like some others do who develop a huge following for no particular reason).


Hello Salima,

Going on record under laboratory conditions is, indeed, Sensationalizing the event. It is those you encounter accidentally who provoke the subconscious curium.

Lobsang T Rampa (a fine fellow) himself stated that it is those who are without material gain, who tend to be the most interesting. I assume he will agree with me from whatever astral plane he is perceiving this.

Thankyou Salima.

Mark...
 
G-Thomson
 
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 08:31 am
@mark noble,
I thought Yogi liked his pic-a-nic baskets?
 
Pyrrho
 
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 08:57 am
@jeeprs,
jeeprs;162338 wrote:
A story has been posted in the Sydney Morning Herald about an Indian yogi who claims not to have taken food or water for 7 decades.

Source

Of course, this is not possible according to science. But Indian yogis have a track record of doing things that are impossible according to science.


If you read the article, you find that he gargled and bathed. It would be easy to drink in those cases, so we have absolutely no reason to suppose he did not drink water, and have good reason to think he did. Given his watchers' carelessness about such an obvious matter, it would hardly be surprising if he was able to get some food past his watchers who were evidently too stupid to realize that someone can swallow a bit while gargling or bathing. But, of course, there is nothing miraculous about surviving two weeks without food in any case, so this is really nothing at all.

Basically, they would need to have him for more than double the time, and his watchers would need to be someone else who is not so moronic as his watchers were, and would also need to be of known integrity. Otherwise, it is a foolish thing that proves nothing at all.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 09:01 am
@Pyrrho,
Pyrrho;162394 wrote:
If you read the article, you find that he gargled and bathed. It would be easy to drink in those cases, so we have absolutely no reason to suppose he did not drink water, and have good reason to think he did. Given his watchers' carelessness about such an obvious matter, it would hardly be surprising if he was able to get some food past his watchers who were evidently too stupid to realize that someone can swallow a bit while gargling or bathing. But, of course, there is nothing miraculous about surviving two weeks without food in any case, so this is really nothing at all.

Basically, they would need to have him for more than double the time, and his watchers would need to be someone else who is not so moronic as his watchers were, and would also need to be of known integrity. Otherwise, it is a foolish thing that proves nothing at all.


Two weeks? I must have missed something, for that is something of a revision from the original claim of 70 years,
 
Pyrrho
 
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 09:11 am
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;162398 wrote:
Two weeks? I must have missed something, for that is something of a revision from the original claim of 70 years,



He claims 70 years, but obviously he has no corroboration for that. He was watched by some people for two weeks, who were evidently too stupid to realize that one can swallow a bit while gargling and bathing, so I would not trust his watchers to be adequately careful about food either. But in any case, people can live longer than two weeks without food, so even if they were careful enough about that, it still proves nothing at all.

Read the article at the link in the opening post; it is short, and you will find how ridiculous the story is, and how the "evidence" that they present proves absolutely nothing at all. This is typical for this sort of story, people make outrageous claims, based on shoddy evidence, and pretend that they have overthrown science and reason.
 
salima
 
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 09:14 am
@jeeprs,
no-the two weeks was the period of observation during which time he was locked in his room and closed circuit television monitoring him etc...i think the bath situation would have had to be monitored, otherwise it would be a stupid claim. and if they insisted absolutely (i have read about three other articles on this man) that he never urinated or had a bowel movement, they must have been watching him really close. they did in fact say that his bladder appeared to full up and then become empty again without any urine leaving his body.

the really bizarre claim that no one seems to have investigated is that he said some kind of nectar comes from heaven and falls through a hole in his palate and that is what he lives on. that wasnt mentioned in this particular article though. and in fact it hasnt been mentioned by anyone but him...did the doctors not notice this happening or did they not think it mattered?
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 09:32 am
@salima,
salima;162404 wrote:
no-the two weeks was the period of observation during which time he was locked in his room and closed circuit television monitoring him etc...i think the bath situation would have had to be monitored, otherwise it would be a stupid claim. and if they insisted absolutely (i have read about three other articles on this man) that he never urinated or had a bowel movement, they must have been watching him really close. they did in fact say that his bladder appeared to full up and then become empty again without any urine leaving his body.

the really bizarre claim that no one seems to have investigated is that he said some kind of nectar comes from heaven and falls through a hole in his palate and that is what he lives on. that wasnt mentioned in this particular article though. and in fact it hasnt been mentioned by anyone but him...did the doctors not notice this happening or did they not think it mattered?


Nectar! Hey, nectar is cheating! No fair nectar however it is delivered.
 
Pyrrho
 
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 09:34 am
@salima,
salima;162404 wrote:
no-the two weeks was the period of observation during which time he was locked in his room and closed circuit television monitoring him etc...i think the bath situation would have had to be monitored, otherwise it would be a stupid claim. and if they insisted absolutely (i have read about three other articles on this man) that he never urinated or had a bowel movement, they must have been watching him really close. they did in fact say that his bladder appeared to full up and then become empty again without any urine leaving his body.

the really bizarre claim that no one seems to have investigated is that he said some kind of nectar comes from heaven and falls through a hole in his palate and that is what he lives on. that wasnt mentioned in this particular article though. and in fact it hasnt been mentioned by anyone but him...did the doctors not notice this happening or did they not think it mattered?


It is a stupid claim. You can read more about him by searching the internet with his name. Here is another piece on him:

Inedia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Basically, he has never been properly tested, and my guess is that he never will be. Many people like making crazy claims, and have no regard for honesty at all. And, of course, frauds who have brains do not ever allow themselves to be properly tested, as then they would be exposed as frauds. There are plenty of fools who can be deluded into believing that they have done a proper test when they really have done something slipshod, and there are plenty of other liars in the world who would be willing accomplices.
 
salima
 
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 09:57 am
@Pyrrho,
Pyrrho;162413 wrote:
It is a stupid claim. You can read more about him by searching the internet with his name. Here is another piece on him:

Inedia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Basically, he has never been properly tested, and my guess is that he never will be. Many people like making crazy claims, and have no regard for honesty at all. And, of course, frauds who have brains do not ever allow themselves to be properly tested, as then they would be exposed as frauds. There are plenty of fools who can be deluded into believing that they have done a proper test when they really have done something slipshod, and there are plenty of other liars in the world who would be willing accomplices.


not to be a smartarse, but what is the percentage of fools and frauds among military doctors in india? understand i am not defending this person's claims, just trying to be objective and learn the truth.
 
mark noble
 
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 10:03 am
@salima,
salima;162404 wrote:
no-the two weeks was the period of observation during which time he was locked in his room and closed circuit television monitoring him etc...i think the bath situation would have had to be monitored, otherwise it would be a stupid claim. and if they insisted absolutely (i have read about three other articles on this man) that he never urinated or had a bowel movement, they must have been watching him really close. they did in fact say that his bladder appeared to full up and then become empty again without any urine leaving his body.

the really bizarre claim that no one seems to have investigated is that he said some kind of nectar comes from heaven and falls through a hole in his palate and that is what he lives on. that wasnt mentioned in this particular article though. and in fact it hasnt been mentioned by anyone but him...did the doctors not notice this happening or did they not think it mattered?


Hi Salima,

It is only they, who find reality disturbing, that venture into the realm of the ridiculous, hoping to find, along the way, something supernaturally sufficient, upon which to prove purpose, meaning and conclusion to their somewhat, otherwise meaningless and empty existences.

I grew up analysing the "supernatural", and have concluded - there isn't one. what, indeed, can perform or be performed that is contrary to the positioning of the Natural criteria that developed it?

And I say unto you - - Seek and you will find - though you may not like what you find.

Thankyou Salima and fare well.

Mark...
 
Pyrrho
 
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 10:17 am
@salima,
salima;162417 wrote:
not to be a smartarse, but what is the percentage of fools and frauds among military doctors in india? understand i am not defending this person's claims, just trying to be objective and learn the truth.


It does not matter what the percentage is; all he needs to do is find those who are fools or frauds (they need not be both, only one). And, of course, not everyone involved need be in on the fraud or be fools, as no doubt he did not eat or drink during part of the time he was there. If he has one accomplice who is watching him once a day alone, he could last for many years under observation.

According to this article, the main doctor and hospital testing this guy have a track record of not letting independent observers in on such tests, nor do they ever produce evidence or publish research on this. In other words, it is all an empty sensationalist claim, with the possible benefit of getting a lucrative government contract to study such nonsense.

Basically, this sort of thing goes on all the time because so many people want to believe such drivel, that they do not require proper evidence for their beliefs. As William Kingdon Clifford observed, "No man holding a strong belief on one side of a question, or even wishing to hold a belief on one side, can investigate it with such fairness and completeness as if he were really in doubt and unbiassed; so that the existence of a belief not founded on fair inquiry unfits a man for the performance of this necessary duty." From: The Ethics of Belief

And many religious people are not above "pious frauds", of falsehoods presented in order to convert nonbelievers in order to save their souls. Of course, not every religious person is a liar, but there are more than enough who are for this sort of thing to be common.
 
Jebediah
 
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 10:19 am
@jeeprs,
jeeprs;162338 wrote:


Of course, this is not possible according to science. But Indian yogis have a track record of doing things that are impossible according to science.


Making up stories is perfectly possible according to science :shifty:

Sometimes the people testing it want it to be true.
 
salima
 
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 11:11 am
@jeeprs,
it would be pretty suspicious if the same doctor was heading the second round of tests.
 
Doubt doubt
 
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 11:26 am
@jeeprs,
maybe its a technicality. you can live without food and water if you drink juice and milk and such. maybe he has had an IV bag on for 70 years. more questions less assumptions.
 
 

 
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