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Hello, if anyone knows the work, book, piece St John of the Cross, 'Dark Night of the Soul', perhaps we could set up a reading. I am sure it is probably one of those works you could pick up from the internet free, so if anyone wants to go from humble beginnings to the triumphant conclusions with me, let me know and I shall start it, but I was hoping that there would be some willing who may want to start with me (who is novice in all but experience, firsts being blessed but seperate, as is shock and awe).
Just giving myself some good work and trying to spread it around, and of course once started any else who have already gone through it and it is not a first can regard what the beginners guage. Thanks
Hello somtimg sun and a welcome. If you don't mind, what is your over all
thought, as briefly as you can, as to what you think "The Dark Night of the Soul" is saying in it's entirety and how was it you came across it?
Thank you,
William
isnt it the moment when doubt becomes unbearable and just at that point some breakthrough is achieved to transcend all future doubt? it's like a drunk reaching rock bottom before he can recover and finally leave alcohol behind. i am not sure it is even possible to have a really solid faith, the kind that is unshakeable, until one has suffered to the very depths of their soul the desperation of abandonment. not until that moment does remembrance occur in an indisputable, irrefutable experiential way..
'Because however greatly the soul itself labours, it cannot actively pufify itself so as to be in the least degree prepared for the Divine union of perfection of love, if God takes not its hand and purges it not in that dark fire, in the way and manner that we have to describe.'
isnt it the moment when doubt becomes unbearable and just at that point some breakthrough is achieved to transcend all future doubt? it's like a drunk reaching rock bottom before he can recover and finally leave alcohol behind. i am not sure it is even possible to have a really solid faith, the kind that is unshakeable, until one has suffered to the very depths of their soul the desperation of abandonment. not until that moment does remembrance occur in an indisputable, irrefutable experiential way..
If christ were the embodiment of god, that omnipotent, omnipresent, all knowing, all sensing god, he would have surely not been killed, especially in the way it was depicted he was.
That is what many of the Gnostic schools said. But it is a misunderstanding of the message of Jesus, from the orthodox viewpoint. It says something very profound about the nature of love, and of sacrifice. I think the God you are considering is much more like the pagan gods.
some people believe that all that person who was called christ could do is, rather than being an incarnation of divinity, merely reaching the potential of humanity-even he himself was quoted as having said as much-i dont remember the exact words, something like 'this too and more shall you also do'...he himself did not claim to be a god or to be dying for anyone's sins, as far as i know. in a philosophical sense, all martyrs are dying for our sins-but more or less because of them, in my opinion. as witnesses,we have the option then do correct ourselves, humanity as the collective 'we', but we never have yet...
in yoga, i was suggesting that the experience described by st john and others can come to those who have no faith or doubt as a prerequisite or backgound context in which to place it-perhaps those who are in some way ready to understand and receive it physically, emotionally, mentally, etc. it may be only through the dark night of the soul that some must travel, you could say it is taking the scenic route. and that is what he describes, and most beautifully too. no matter the way it is received, people are enriched by it and deeply transformed.
Chapter 6;
'moderation within which the virtues are acquired'
Just like it, excess without what the sins are shed.
These persons are most imperfect and unreasonable for they set bodily penance before subjection and obedience, which is penance according to reason and discretion, and therefore a sacrifice more acceptable and pleasing to God than any other', William do something with this one.