Depression...oh...depression!

@Bonaventurian,

Maybe she senses that you are insecure or unsure of yourself, and is looking for the opposite in potential boyfriends.

@Bonaventurian,

based on what you said... it sounds like you're way too anxious.

she sounds more shy... and you want to make out after a month and a half?

i bet her mentality is innocent. theres no way to know after only a month 1/2 if the person youre interested in is worthy or not.

stop thinking of it as dates... and wondering if it was a date or not... just chill with her. do stuff randomly every once in awhile... instead of scheduled dates... maybe shed enjoy swinging her feet in some water at a dock instead of being in a crowded comedy club, but maybe shes afraid she cant be alone with you without you trying to get her to do something with her.

i see nothing that makes me think shes not interested... the comment on you being obnoxious and coming on strong is what im workin off of...

a relationship is NOT physical contact... its developing a trust and a friendship... finding out if youre actually compatible... not if she sticks her tongue in your mouth as fast as you can get her to do it...

sounds like youre goal is not to develop a long lasting relationship... but to get your hormones released...

@Bonaventurian,

Maybe she's just a capricious girl-child who wants to twine a man about her little finger like a cheap toy?

@Theaetetus,

Theaetetus;69169 wrote:

Maybe she senses that you are insecure or unsure of yourself, and is looking for the opposite in potential boyfriends.

This was what most struck me - for any kind of relationship potential it's a deal-killer. Especially if that insecurity comes out in self-loathing

@Bonaventurian,

It sounds like you two just might have different expectations on this relationship. She seems to want to help you become a better person by criticizing you, talking to you, and holding hands. But on the other hand, you're not that better person yet, so she wants to hold off on the whole physical thing until she's more comfortable with you and her own insecurities.

@Bonaventurian,

Bo, all and all I think Sara is right on here. I admire this girls restraint in that it is really hard to know someone in such a short time. It could be she has been down this road before and is being much more cautious. Be patient. Try to put your libido in check for I feel that is what she is looking for. I think you are lucky to find a girl with such reserve. If she were definitely not intereted, I think she would have ended it long ago. IMMHO.

William

@William,

Bonaventurian;68997 wrote:

Complete and abject failure. That's me. I feel positively bummed. The girl I like said that kissing me (both with respect to the act that she permitted and with respect to the way she felt doing it) was like kissing a relative (she's kissed me twice).

Then move on. She is not the only woman in the world.

In my youth I was told a story, presented as non-fiction, by an intoxicated older gentleman. This man was stationed in Hawaii with the military many years ago and recalled a peer who spent his off-time on the beech. Each day this peer was with a different woman. When the man asked his peer how he accomplished this feat (some of the women were beautiful, others less than) the peer had a simple answer - 'every day I walk down the beech and ask every woman I see, "Hey, you wanna get down?" Most are uninterested, but eventually one will be delighted to romp in a cheap motel room. It's all numbers.'

That is not a romantic story, but who cares? Get out there, play the numbers and in the process you will build confidence.

Bonaventurian;68997 wrote:

She's been sending me such mixed messages, basically saying "B, I want to be alone with you," and then "B, you suck at dating."

Yeah, move on, my friend. Move on.

Bonaventurian;68997 wrote:

I. Need. A. Drink.

I'm a drunken hearted man, and life seems so misery
I'm the drunken hearted man, and life seems so misery
And if I could change my way of livin', boys, that would mean so much to me.

I'm the drunken hearted man, and sin was the cause of it all
I'm the drunken hearted man, and sin was the cause of it all
The day that you get weak for no good women, that's the day that you bound to fall.

Forget a drink, man, you need another woman to chase. When they drive you to drink, they need to be dropped. Johnson knew what he was talkin' 'bout.

Bonaventurian;69016 wrote:

She claims not to like me in that way. I am not sure I believe her, though.

Maybe she do, maybe she don't. But that is beside the point. She says she does not like you "in that way" so your best move is to take her word and move right along. Chances are, if she does like you, when she spies you with another woman the jealousy will set her into gear and she'll be back your way on her own accord.

If you chase too much, she'll get away. With seven "dates", your race is run. Find another game to jump in to. That's the best remedy.

@Bonaventurian,

I hate to agree with DT, but this is the viewpoint which continues to make much more sense in our times than ever. Romance has become second to rationality (or statistical odds of "playing the numbers").

@Bonaventurian,

It was ever thus.

@Dave Allen,

I'm not saying that romance should be replaced with numbers. But sometimes, yes, we should make the switch.

Here I suggest the numbers game because it seems Bona has very little experience dating and is no where close to looking for long-term partnership (at least, not ready for it). The numbers game will provide experience, confidence, help him deal with rejection.

Also, the drunken anecdote should not be implemented literally. Only taken as a crude model for how to proceed.

@Holiday20310401,

Holiday20310401;69138 wrote:

Bo, the fact that she wants to have some privacy with you might indicate she is embarrassed to be around you, but she wants to get to know you.

I doubt that her wanting to be alone with you means that she has another boyfriend.

I talked to her afterwards. She didn't -really- want privacy with me. She just didn't feel like driving to the comedy club, back to her place, back to the comedy club to bring me back, and then back to her place again.

---------- Post added at 08:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:17 PM ----------

For the record. I'm not looking to satisfy my labido. I don't want to shove my tongue down her throat. I merely want to kiss her open mouthed, fairly lingeringly, with no tongue. And it need not be for a very long time.

@Bonaventurian,

You know, if it was meant to be, it was meant to be, let the caterpillar crawl away, and if it comes back a butterfly, then you may be in luck.

Now if you were my age, at your point in your relationship, I would tell you that it is not meant to be. Find a new fish in the sea. But at your age, you need to be able to learn how to deal with failure. I was lucky enough that love stumbled into my lap, but things like that only happen in time. Trust me, you will know when that moment presents itself.

@Bonaventurian,

Bonaventurian;69281 wrote:

I talked to her afterwards. She didn't -really- want privacy with me. She just didn't feel like driving to the comedy club, back to her place, back to the comedy club to bring me back, and then back to her place again.

---------- Post added at 08:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:17 PM ----------

For the record. I'm not looking to satisfy my labido. I don't want to shove my tongue down her throat. I merely want to kiss her open mouthed, fairly lingeringly, with no tongue. And it need not be for a very long time.

if that is the only reason you are pursuing this girl and after seven dates you havent got what you were looking for, i would say move on. if you are looking for something more permanent and personal, and after seven dates you feel you are getting mixed signals, i would say....move on.

i think the seven dates with her is enough experience along these lines.

and before moving on you could tell her that you want her to teach you how to kiss properly....hehehe. she might go for that. it might appeal to her 'pride'. she is critical of your kissing, right? tell her to put her money where her mouth is (pun) and show you how it's done.

i mean in a respectful, innocent way of course! (and i know you have both those qualities)

@Bonaventurian,

I can tell you Bo, from my current experience, I pretty much knew on first kiss that this was the woman for me. If you kiss her, and she thinks about kissing a family member, then you are not kissing her properly. There is a lot to be said about compatibility that can be found within a kiss. If you are said to kiss like a family member, then maybe your approach is to blame. A kiss is not just a kiss. Most of your intentions can be know how you kiss another person.

@Theaetetus,

ok, now I have never kissed before, but now I'm nervous about it. Are girls very reflective and judgmental about this as you're making it seem Bo?

What is there to a kiss that it has to get so complicated?

@Holiday20310401,

Holiday20310401;69290 wrote:

ok, now I have never kissed before, but now I'm nervous about it. Are girls very reflective and judgmental about this as you're making it seem Bo?

What is there to a kiss that it has to get so complicated?

Women are the devil.

@Bonaventurian,

First, don't get your panties in a bunch Holiday. As long as you go with the flow, display a sense of confidence, and relate to them in some way, a kiss seems to be much more than it appears to a potential onlooking observer.

Second, never take advice on women from Bonaventurian. If you have been told that kissing you is like kissing a family member, any advice you receive, can only be considered worthless at best (sorry Bona, had to take the shot to give advice to a fellow board member).

Just take things naturally Holiday (and Bona, you may want to take that advice as well), and good things will result. Love is not something you can force, nor is it any thing you can expect as charity. A kiss is a way that people connect on those intimate, deep levels, or they are done as courtesy, gesture, or in a loving familial way. Trust me Holiday, if you work up the moment like good olde Bona seems to like to do, you will only set yourself up for a failure. Experiment, do what comes natural, and do not fret too much over anything else. Know one want to kiss someone that is so uncomfortable in the moment it is like kissing Aunt Jane, or having a went one placed one you by your drunk uncle Dave.

@Holiday20310401,

You'll be fine, Holiday. As with anything else, repetition is key. You will have your practice, and so will she.

My advice: see the humor. It's really a very silly thing, kissing. Seems so important, but when you look back you'll laugh.

I remember my first kiss. We were watching a movie and I was nervous because she had experience. Sat through most of the movie nervous as heck. When I finally got the courage to make a move (the film was almost over, almost time to go!), our lips met and a few seconds later she pulled back, smiled, and said something like, "Finally, you silly boy". I wound up spending a great deal of time at her house after that night, even thought that was my first, and clumsy, kiss and she knew what she was doing.

It's not that big of a deal. Have fun. When you're young, the whole sexual interaction thing is new. The idea is to find someone somewhat agreeable and practice. That's growing up. Have fun.

in Just- - A poem by e.e. cummings - American Poems

Bonaventurian, just one more thing, remember the line from that Thin Lizzy song: "If that chick don't wanna know forget her".

@Bonaventurian,

If you don't know the saying, here it is, "A date is a job interview that lasts all night".

If you get turned down, fix your resume and go apply for the next job.

@GoshisDead,

GoshisDead;69005 wrote:

Maybe she's from a place where kissing relatives is encouraged.

Arkansas????????????

---------- Post added at 03:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:03 PM ----------

Bonaventurian;68997 wrote:

Complete and abject failure. That's me. I feel positively bummed. The girl I like said that kissing me (both with respect to the act that she permitted and with respect to the way she felt doing it) was like kissing a relative (she's kissed me twice).

She's been sending me such mixed messages, basically saying "B, I want to be alone with you," and then "B, you suck at dating."

Of course, this is just the most recent nail driven into the coffin of my soul this night. Earlier, I angered her intending to do what I thought was good. She had requested that I not divulge a piece of information about her, and when it was guessed (and I affirmed) this piece of information -for her own safety,- she got really angry at me.

One moment, you're holding a girl's hand and kissing her (albeit barely). The next, she is angry at you and saying that kissing you is like kissing a relative...and by the way, she's barely let you kiss her at all!

I. Need. A. Drink.

Bon,,,,,with all due respect, maybe you're not doing it right?Lay them ole lippers on her like you mean it man!

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