People mature at different rates.

And different aspects of an individual can mature at different times. Various aspects of social maturity and intellectual maturity exist in any one person, and often it's experience that cultivates maturity.

If you say he can't hold an intelligent conversation with any of the guys you hang out with, then it seems that he lags behind other guys. So the issue isn't when guys mature in general -- it's what's up with this guy.

Guess you're right, but I mean the guys I associate with can't hold an intelligent conversation with me. Or him as well, but he doesn't mind so much for obvious reasons.

Yeah, people do mature at different rates, but all I see around me are immature and superficial guys. And they're the "smart" ones (book smarts)

Guys mature after their midlife crisis is over, women mature in a more unpredictable (ambiguous) fashion (as always), but I was reading something about them maturing faster than guys. But when they get older their maturity falls apart and you get the complaints over a nickel at the grocery store. See us guys don't get that.:cool:

It's pretty relative. Physically, women mature earlier than men, by which I mean that they hit puberty faster. They don't really age faster though, generally speaking, they outlive men by a statistically significant margin. Which is my way of saying that it's tough to say, physically. Do you count sexual maturity as your maturity point or speed of aging? Men peak earlier than women do.

Mentally, you're going to have to define maturity a little better. If, by mature, you mean logical, reasonable and consequence oriented, it's really a toss up. You don't often read about a drunk woman falling off a balcony and killing herself while trying to get better distance in a spitting contest, but at the same time, you don't often hear a guy sobbing, "I thought she loved me, but she was just using me. How could I have been so blind?!"

Generally speaking, guys tend to be more logical and women tend to be more emotional. By my judgement, that makes guys generally more mature than women, but I'm not exactly an impartial third party. Then again, neither are you.

You say that he wasn't interested in your depression and that he expected you to be better the next day. Then you go on to talk about how quickly his emotions change. Can you not see why he might not have any empathy for far-reaching emotional problems? Have you really sat down and looked at his actions and thought about it, or are you just upset that he's not meeting your needs right now? If so, ask yourself if you've always met his needs, or have you supplied him with what you'd want in the same situation. It sounds like that's what he's doing with you; he's judging what you need based on what he'd need. It's short-sighted, but that's the epitome of human nature, to be selfish even in our friendships.

I think the real question here isn't "when do guys mature" because you already know it's a bullshit question, born out of frustration, not out of a real quest for knowledge. The question is "why is this guy hurting my feelings." The answer is also something you should already know; he's not doing it on purpose, he's doing it because he doesn't know any better. Unless you've explained to him what you need and how it differs from what he's used to, you've got minimal rights when it comes to *****ing. Yes, he should try and be more sensitive to your needs, as a friend, but at the same time, as your friend, he shouldn't have to be worried about how you're going to judge him when he's being himself. Part of being old and mature is learning to accept people for who they are, even when who they are is imperfect. After all, people who live in glass houses...

Hahah I totally agree with you on the whole emotional front. By maturity, I meant insight into situations, and mostly common sense.

I can see why he might not understand my problem, but he knew enough to know it was serious. It wasn't just depression, I didn't see the need to mention the rest of it because then It'd just be repetitive whining which you don't seem to be too fond of. I agree that he shouldn't worry about my judgements as a friend, and normally, I don't judge him, but it's something I couldn't avoid in the end when we started arguing.

True, you could interpret my question that way, and I phrased the question with a bias standpoint (probably shouldn't have done that), but what I mean is when does the reasonablility and logical thinking set it? I've always thought maturity came from events in ones life and reacting to them, learning how to deal.

I've known this guy for years and I've never had a problem, never been in a fight with him. He told me I could tell him anything anytime and he would be there for me. He lied. So, I knew he was imperfect. I didn't expect anything else, nor do I ever, but it was something we'd already discussed. It was a problem we could have moved past, but didn't. Mostly my fault as I've changed and become a very emotionally ruled person, but everyone who has heard the whole story usually sees what I'm talking about and why we fought.

Well, you're right, knowing the whole story goes a long way. I'm not, as you surmised, a fan of repetitive whining, but I can take short staccato bursts. It's when it's constant whining for months that it gets on my nerves. Of course, my tolerances are neither here nor there, I'm sure there are plenty of people out there that appreciate your brevity. If by insight into situations you mean empathy and sensitivity to the feelings of others, then the answer is "sometimes never". I am, generally speaking, a pretty nice guy, but I've never been one to worry over much about other people's emotions. Mostly because I don't really value emotion, in my opinion, logic and fact is better 100% of the time than fervor and wishes. Of course, I'm susceptible to being swayed by my emotions, same as anyone, but I try to guard myself against it, and as such, expect others to make the same attempt.

So I'm not very tolerant of emotional outbursts in adults around me (kids of course are a different story, I think we touch on the "expected maturity" aspect a bit here) and I tend to avoid highly emotional adults.

Having never met you or your friend, and having incomplete information on what's going on, I'm not going to attempt to analyze the situation beyond asking you questions that you can ask yourself; I would be remiss if I pretended I could offer some solid answer.

Common sense can also be tough to come by. It may be labelled "common"; it's anything but.

It's really impossible to talk generalities about this, all guys are different, just as all people are different, and it's impossible to come up with an "average age" for something that's as esoteric and judgement-driven as a call of "mature" or "immature".

I am 24... I am still VERY immature in most aspects of my life.

I still poke people with sticks, flick pennies at co-workers, talk about women's physical attributes as if I were in middle school, throw temper tantrums when i don't get my way and whine as much as possible.

At the same time I can hold intelligent conversation, hold a reasonably well paying job, form lasting relationships with people of both gender, care for others beyond myself and many of the other things which would be considered mature.

The problem is not that people don't mature fast enough. it is that people are, for the most part, not motivated to grow up.

Hello there
Think of it like cheese ........when we get really smelly ...we're mature
Cheers folks,
TTFN:shocked:

Hahah thank you for the advice. I'll keep my nose on full alert!

Hello There
You are most heartily welcome .... it's just pheromones or something lol
Cheers
TTFN:shocked:

Don't sweat it. You'll encounter situations like this all throughout your life. Friends will often change as both of you grow in other directions. The intelligent conversations is something else you'll encounter or should I say, recycle until your own understanding has matured.

Could what you see as a fault within your friend actually be a reflection of a fault or addiction that you and/or we are dealing with, within? Something to think about....

:poke-eye:



LOL. Icon you remind me of a younger me.

As far as maturity and the thread starters question, I'm not sure if Men ever mature to the expectations of the balancing, woman. :whistling: Myself am almost 40 and I feel as though my wife is my mother and at times I even find myself trying to sneak an extra 9 in or silly stuff like that. If you ask her, I'm immature and I'm in no position to disagree with her either. :listening:

I was probably more mature at 14 or 15 than I am now just month away from 30, if an outside observer compared me at the two stages. At 14, I was in charge of my little brother and was forced to act like a parent. I spent much of my childhood with far more responsibility than most adults ever have, and decided to regress after 18. I rebelled against authority, blew off responsibility, dropped out of high school, and experimented with drugs. Then I got a DWI and realized once again that I had to take responsibility for the consequences of my own actions.

But even today, others would consider me irresponsible and immature--even though I have become emotionally mature. I decided to basically throw away my schooling as an electrical engineering major to major in philosophy, and I study a dead language--ancient Greek. To many that is the ultimate act of immaturity in my life, because I made the choice at 26--a time that many think people should know better.

At this moment I should be studying my ancient Greek rather than typing this. I still haven't learned how to prioritize.

Never.
(I hope)
Life is a process of 'maturation' depending on your definition. The brain isn't physically done 'maturing' till about 28 - 30 yrs old!!! That's only 'physical' definition of maturation, fully formed. Mental, emotional, 'spiritual', social, etc.. maturation is a lifelong occurrance!
"All grown up" = dead, fossilised, ossified, mortified and morgued! When the 'apparent' processes stop, so do we.

Try hanging around older people, you might have better luck.
Peace

Yeah, I find that to be very true. That's why I hang around this forum . Hey Nameless, do you go on the online philosophy club too? I've seen ur name before

Yeah, I turn up everywhere, like a bad penny! *__-

I would totally make a bad penny joke here what with the two cents and all, but I will not do so. I will not make you suffer through my bad joke telling

'Unfortunately'/'fortunately', I don't suffer from the same scruples. *__-