For Sale: Someone's Virginity?

Get Email Updates Email this Topic Print this Page

Fido
 
Reply Thu 6 Aug, 2009 07:43 pm
@Didymos Thomas,
Didymos Thomas;81489 wrote:
Anything that contributes to suffering, and/or is meant to contribute to suffering

Society is sin...Meaning, so long as we have society we will have morality, and good and evil for the individual measured against good and evil for society... The further from society the greater is the sin...
 
Serena phil
 
Reply Thu 6 Aug, 2009 11:16 pm
@Khethil,
I'm not sure what her intentions are for the money, but that is a mighty big leap for early prostitution. I wonder what she will charge when she becomes a professional at it. :whistling:

This sort of promotion is not necessarily wrong, especially if the consequences are severe. But it does seem to undermine her own self-respect and integrity. I'm curious as to who would be willing to pay that much for a simple civilian. Best of luck to her.
 
Fido
 
Reply Fri 7 Aug, 2009 06:26 am
@Serena phil,
Serena;81705 wrote:
I'm not sure what her intentions are for the money, but that is a mighty big leap for early prostitution. I wonder what she will charge when she becomes a professional at it. :whistling:

This sort of promotion is not necessarily wrong, especially if the consequences are severe. But it does seem to undermine her own self-respect and integrity. I'm curious as to who would be willing to pay that much for a simple civilian. Best of luck to her.


I must disagree...Sex without love is an act of violence, even if bartered, or sold, or engaged in with consent... People can consent to be the victims of injustice, and we may never know the forces at work in a person's life to bring them to going to bed with the enemy... They may be looking for a personal advantage, and degrading self and sex in the same act... We should never minimize the number of victims created by failed forms... We should never look a working forms and fail to see all the life robbed from people to make the main forms, of economy, or government, or religion seem like successes... While the Greek and Roman societies were cast in an ideal light by our founding fathers, the average citizen and slaves and women paid a terrible price to buy the ultimate failure of their societies.... The Greeks killed so many of their girl children that many home steads fell empty, and the remaining woman found they were better valued as consorts than as wives... We may not make it as obvious, but in many places in our society, and to an extent, universally, women are treated and expected to be second class citizens...Yet; paradoxically, women seem to always be a key to honor... Look at how often women suffer violence for dishonoring their families, and how would this be possible if they were not able to carry honor in some fashion, from their families to future generations... We consider a bastard or an sob as some form of low life, and a unique exception is found in English Law where an illigitimate child of a villien was considered born free...It was only natural logic to consider such children the babes of the lord....
 
Khethil
 
Reply Mon 17 Aug, 2009 04:37 am
@Khethil,
Thanks to all for their replies.

For my part, the biggest impact of things like this is the large sum that's been offered and the philosophical context; that being, how important money has become. Conversely, I don't really believe that selling sexual favors, itself, is innately wrong. After all, if we don't have agency to do with our bodies what we want (for whatever reason), what agency do we have?

Love doesn't make the world go round, money does (Love just makes it a place worth being).

Thanks again
 
Fido
 
Reply Mon 17 Aug, 2009 05:42 am
@Khethil,
Khethil;83710 wrote:
Thanks to all for their replies.

For my part, the biggest impact of things like this is the large sum that's been offered and the philosophical context; that being, how important money has become. Conversely, I don't really believe that selling sexual favors, itself, is innately wrong. After all, if we don't have agency to do with our bodies what we want (for whatever reason), what agency do we have?

Love doesn't make the world go round, money does (Love just makes it a place worth being).

Thanks again

Morally, we should consider the circumstances under which intimacy becomes an item of commerce since it may be that what one sell is so cheapened for another...If the truth were known, perhaps many who sell sex would prefer to give it to another for free... And it is theirs, but only in the sense that with their freedom the do no damage to others or to society... And society should demand morality and ask the moral question...But how do we begin, and where??? Our whole society is based upon immorality...Our government, our economy and our religion is immorality, and they grate upon the nerves of the people who are mostly moral... In practical terms, if one gives her body and sex in marriage for a fine house and a better life, how can they then accuse those who give sex for a fix???If women as a class are victimized more, and some times less around the world how dare we, as men, say how they should be victimized, and set limits when their relationships with others, no less than our own are within their own control.... It does not matter if a person is a slave, a prisoner, or a prostitute because their relationships are their problem.... Yet; we can demand that we are not injured, and we can insure that our forms are not leading to, or encouraging their victimization or injury... We have to remember that people are injured by porn and prostitution... Little girls and boys having no idea of the thing are hurt by prostitution they are not even aware of... Value is robbed from intimacy by making an economy in it... What if it is the only thing you have to trade with another for your life with them??? How would you appreciate love being cheapened???
 
Khethil
 
Reply Mon 17 Aug, 2009 06:50 am
@Fido,
Fido;83720 wrote:
Morally, we should consider the circumstances under which intimacy becomes an item of commerce since it may be that what one sell is so cheapened for another...If the truth were known, perhaps many who sell sex would prefer to give it to another for free... And it is theirs, but only in the sense that with their freedom the do no damage to others or to society... And society should demand morality and ask the moral question...But how do we begin, and where??? Our whole society is based upon immorality...Our government, our economy and our religion is immorality, and they grate upon the nerves of the people who are mostly moral... In practical terms, if one gives her body and sex in marriage for a fine house and a better life, how can they then accuse those who give sex for a fix???If women as a class are victimized more, and some times less around the world how dare we, as men, say how they should be victimized, and set limits when their relationships with others, no less than our own are within their own control.... It does not matter if a person is a slave, a prisoner, or a prostitute because their relationships are their problem.... Yet; we can demand that we are not injured, and we can insure that our forms are not leading to, or encouraging their victimization or injury... We have to remember that people are injured by porn and prostitution... Little girls and boys having no idea of the thing are hurt by prostitution they are not even aware of... Value is robbed from intimacy by making an economy in it... What if it is the only thing you have to trade with another for your life with them??? How would you appreciate love being cheapened???


All valid points, Fido. I don't want to into a discussion on the morality of prostitution here, but I'll definitely agree that there are very important and potentially very dire consequences - depending on the circumstances - of selling oneself at all.

Thanks
 
Fido
 
Reply Mon 17 Aug, 2009 07:30 am
@Khethil,
Khethil;83732 wrote:
All valid points, Fido. I don't want to into a discussion on the morality of prostitution here, but I'll definitely agree that there are very important and potentially very dire consequences - depending on the circumstances - of selling oneself at all.

Thanks

Yes; but like it or not, morality is tied up with it, and immorality may be the greatest source of its pleasure..If this conclusion is true, what does it mean when people will not take to the streets, but will go to the bedroom to be revolting...The argument is still being advanced that people have the right, individually to bind themselves to their employer for labor...They may have resources that another does not...They may not have needs that another may have...Each may be acting under some duress common to their circumstances... Considering that this argument is made against unions and collective bargaining there is both a winner and a loser.... When Germans were on the virge of surrenduring at Stalingrad, Goebels gave a speech saluting their defense of German Freedom... Some freedom that killed so many... Some freedom that cast so many into slavery and starvation...Freedom is just an idea... Some look at it as an absolute they may never reach, or as a dream people give up to buy a life... Well; it is also a reality, and as every reality -it meets and bounds, and has its mine and yours, and also an ours to it..
 
Khethil
 
Reply Mon 17 Aug, 2009 07:49 am
@Fido,
Fido;83743 wrote:
Yes; but like it or not, morality is tied up with it...


I neither like nor dislike it. And yes, there are definite moral implications
 
alcaz0r
 
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2009 12:45 am
@Khethil,
Our tendency to form moral sentiments regarding sexual behavior has been rendered vestigial by technology.

Regarding the value of female virginity: What value did female virginity ever have?

There are a lot of sentimental answers to this, but nature has not idly imbued us with such sentiments, they tend to serve some purpose, to individuals or to society, and such purpose is what I now look for. To this I immediately think of two practical answers.

First it occurs to me that placing a value on virginity is part of a larger tendency to discourage female promiscuity. This, as anyone reading this I'm sure will readily comprehend, can serve the purpose of reducing the burden that unwanted pregnancies and single mothers can place on a society.

Technology serves this purpose much more efficiently through birth control.

Second is the assurance to the male that when she bears children they really are his, the doubt of which would reduce his motivation to assist in the rearing of such offspring.

For this we now have paternity tests.
----------------------------------------------

Considering the matter a priori, my above reasoning predicts that the availability of these technologies should undermine the moral value society places on female virginity greatly. Happily (for me,) recent history conforms to this prediction.

In conclusion, while we still have vestigial sentimental tendencies to view this action as immoral (personally it creeps me right the hell out) we have no practical basis from which to condemn such an action.
-----------------------------------------------

If you are wondering why some guy would be willing to pay for this, I say it is because of that very same inclination we have to consider female virginity a virtue. Placing value on any thing can lead us to regard it with esteem, or to wish to posess it, or both.

[*Edit: Before someone brings it up, I left the issue of STD's out of this post for the sake of simplicity. I feel that they would fit into my reasoning without changing the conclusion, as condom use and regular testing does much to curb the spread of such diseases. For proof compare disease rates in developed countries which have such benefits with those that do not.]
 
Fido
 
Reply Thu 20 Aug, 2009 06:28 pm
@Khethil,
Khethil;83748 wrote:
I neither like nor dislike it. And yes, there are definite moral implications

Virginity is not so much a physical reality as a moral reality... What is the value of it??? What is the meaning of it??? Only the value and meaning we give to it... So it is not that it has moral implications... The greater part of it by far is our moral valuation... The physical implications are slight to negligable...

---------- Post added 08-20-2009 at 08:41 PM ----------

alcaz0r;84270 wrote:
Our tendency to form moral sentiments regarding sexual behavior has been rendered vestigial by technology.

Regarding the value of female virginity: What value did female virginity ever have?

There are a lot of sentimental answers to this, but nature has not idly imbued us with such sentiments, they tend to serve some purpose, to individuals or to society, and such purpose is what I now look for. To this I immediately think of two practical answers.

First it occurs to me that placing a value on virginity is part of a larger tendency to discourage female promiscuity. This, as anyone reading this I'm sure will readily comprehend, can serve the purpose of reducing the burden that unwanted pregnancies and single mothers can place on a society.

Technology serves this purpose much more efficiently through birth control.

Second is the assurance to the male that when she bears children they really are his, the doubt of which would reduce his motivation to assist in the rearing of such offspring.

For this we now have paternity tests.
----------------------------------------------

Considering the matter a priori, my above reasoning predicts that the availability of these technologies should undermine the moral value society places on female virginity greatly. Happily (for me,) recent history conforms to this prediction.

In conclusion, while we still have vestigial sentimental tendencies to view this action as immoral (personally it creeps me right the hell out) we have no practical basis from which to condemn such an action.
-----------------------------------------------

If you are wondering why some guy would be willing to pay for this, I say it is because of that very same inclination we have to consider female virginity a virtue. Placing value on any thing can lead us to regard it with esteem, or to wish to posess it, or both.

[*Edit: Before someone brings it up, I left the issue of STD's out of this post for the sake of simplicity. I feel that they would fit into my reasoning without changing the conclusion, as condom use and regular testing does much to curb the spread of such diseases. For proof compare disease rates in developed countries which have such benefits with those that do not.]

The idea of virginity only gained meaning when men realized their place in procreation, and also had a sense of wealth and inheritable property and rights... Primitives having little sense of either, and no great understanding of the male role were as much inclined to adopt as to secure their own children because there, and then, they would be avenged if killed and that was worth more than any property left to any number...

As a physical matter, what do men expect from virgins??? Inexperience??? Youth??? Tightness... From my experience, fear and apprehension makes every woman tight... Love and trust makes all women relax... There is were the fun is... Ignorence of a women is unattractive... The fact is that our women are raised as demivirges... They are taught to talk slutty and and think slutty, and most of all to dress slutty... They do not realize their own power because they shoot so many blanks at ducks in a shooting gallery... The reallity is that they are all cupids, and their charms cannot be resisted... Where it not for love and simple human failing they could own the world...
 
EmperorNero
 
Reply Sun 23 Aug, 2009 05:38 pm
@Khethil,
I heard about that. She doesn't really sell herself to the highest bidder, she picks them how she likes them.
So she really just sleeps with a guy she likes for money.
 
Oribe
 
Reply Tue 1 Sep, 2009 01:50 am
@Khethil,
I'd say the more disappointing thing is what that money could have bought besides a virgin, that is, if she doesn't give the money to charity in the end.
 
 

 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.02 seconds on 04/24/2024 at 10:45:26