Annoyance: Am I unattractive?

@Deftil,

I went through this thread once again and I just want to add a few short comments:

-The whole matter is almost painfully futile and an insult to those who have more serious problems of whatever nature. Many tried to bring the matter on a more general level but even asking this kind of questions is ... ok, there are the forum rules, but be sure I have quite a few adjectives in my head now! I also have a few personal problems that I was hesitating to bring here, because of their subjective and egocentric nature. About my wife for example, being paralyzed and suffering terrible pains because of MS. If you had told us: I had an accident and I'm in a wheel-chair for the rest of my life, or: I am diagnosed with cancer, can philosophy help? I would have recognized that immediately as a legitimate philosophical question and I would given you the best of my mind and heart. But of course these can hardly be called problems compared with what is torturing you, no? Ok, no more :thats-enough:

-Besides I noticed that you didn't thank anybody until now for the analysis of your problem, though the good-willing participants in this thread were thanking each other and produced some good thinking. I guess that the answers were not what you were expecting? Perhaps they were not profound enough, or a bit too concise? Yes profound questions and serious problems deserve the best kind of answers, and you will thank somebody in time no? Hey, I may be a woman or not, but you're not attractive for me at all :nonooo: . Perhaps a little maturity would help.

P.S. Many people die of hiv or hunger before they ever had a gf. I will upload a picture of such a dying person and maybe we could discuss how handsome he is?

Hm, perhaps your question was only a joke?

@Catchabula,

Catchabula wrote:

I went through this thread once again and I just want to add a few short comments:

-The whole matter is almost painfully futile and an insult to those who have more serious problems of whatever nature. Many tried to bring the matter on a more general level but even asking this kind of questions is ... ok, there are the forum rules, but be sure I have quite a few adjectives in my head now! I also have a few personal problems that I was hesitating to bring here, because of their subjective and egocentric nature. About my wife for example, being paralyzed and suffering terrible pains because of MS. If you had told us: I had an accident and I'm in a wheel-chair for the rest of my life, or: I am diagnosed with cancer, can philosophy help? I would have recognized that immediately as a legitimate philosophical question and I would given you the best of my mind and heart. But of course these can hardly be called problems compared with what is torturing you, no? Ok, no more :thats-enough:

-Besides I noticed that you didn't thank anybody until now for the analysis of your problem, though the good-willing participants in this thread were thanking each other and produced some good thinking. I guess that the answers were not what you were expecting? Perhaps they were not profound enough, or a bit too concise? Yes profound questions and serious problems deserve the best kind of answers, and you will thank somebody in time no? Hey, I may be a woman or not, but you're not attractive for me at all :nonooo: . Perhaps a little maturity would help.

P.S. Many people die of hiv or hunger before they ever had a gf. I will upload a picture of such a dying person and maybe we could discuss how handsome he is?

Hm, perhaps your question was only a joke?

Death is always beautiful to those in agony...

@Bonaventurian,

Bonaventurian wrote:

Ok, I want opinions, peoplez. I am 20 years old and have yet to have a girlfriend. Am I unattractive? I want honest opinions hyuh.

I'd do ya (haha just kidding I don't find men attractive)

but if you are concerned, there are a number of ways that you can become more attractive according to the societal norms of the culture in which you live

@Catchabula,

Catchabula wrote:

I went through this thread once again and I just want to add a few short comments:

-The whole matter is almost painfully futile and an insult to those who have more serious problems of whatever nature. Many tried to bring the matter on a more general level but even asking this kind of questions is ... ok, there are the forum rules, but be sure I have quite a few adjectives in my head now! I also have a few personal problems that I was hesitating to bring here, because of their subjective and egocentric nature. About my wife for example, being paralyzed and suffering terrible pains because of MS. If you had told us: I had an accident and I'm in a wheel-chair for the rest of my life, or: I am diagnosed with cancer, can philosophy help? I would have recognized that immediately as a legitimate philosophical question and I would given you the best of my mind and heart. But of course these can hardly be called problems compared with what is torturing you, no? Ok, no more :thats-enough:

-Besides I noticed that you didn't thank anybody until now for the analysis of your problem, though the good-willing participants in this thread were thanking each other and produced some good thinking. I guess that the answers were not what you were expecting? Perhaps they were not profound enough, or a bit too concise? Yes profound questions and serious problems deserve the best kind of answers, and you will thank somebody in time no? Hey, I may be a woman or not, but you're not attractive for me at all :nonooo: . Perhaps a little maturity would help.

P.S. Many people die of hiv or hunger before they ever had a gf. I will upload a picture of such a dying person and maybe we could discuss how handsome he is?

Hm, perhaps your question was only a joke?

Dont question his motives, different people give different value to different things Smile

@Bonaventurian,

Remember you need to be able to love yourself before you can love another or be loved by another.
Appearance is not that important. Strength of the heart and soul is.

@Bonaventurian,

I'd like to thank everyone who has thus far commented. Your comments are in fact appreciated. Anyways, I have a new pic. I've lost weight since the last pic, and I've been working out and the like. Rate me from 1-100 (1 being the ugliest).

@Bonaventurian,

I only want to express my embarassed silence. Is the Forum becoming the Circus?

@Catchabula,

Let's hope it isn't becoming the Circus Circus.

Bonaventurian: why do you want to objectify yourself so much? Keep up with the healthy lifestyle for the sake of health.

@Catchabula,

Catchabula wrote:

I only want to express my embarassed silence. Is the Forum becoming the Circus?

As long as I'm on the forum, this forum shall be a circus. Laughing

@Didymos Thomas,

Didymos Thomas wrote:

Let's hope it isn't becoming the Circus Circus.

Bonaventurian: why do you want to objectify yourself so much? Keep up with the healthy lifestyle for the sake of health.

Dude, ideals aside, we all know that this "beauty is only skin deep" thing is realistically nonsense. People (particularly women) don't look only at personalities. I don't wear my personality on my sleeves.

In fact, it's not sufficient even merely to be average, else women have no reason to talk to you more than anyone else.

So why am I objectifying myself in this way? Because I want a woman (at least at the beginning) to objectify me ( particularly more than other guys).

Anyways, help me objectify myself: Rate me on a scale from 1-100 (1 being the ugliest)?

@Bonaventurian,

Bonaventurian wrote:

Dude, ideals aside, we all know that this "beauty is only skin deep" thing is realistically nonsense. People (particularly women) don't look only at personalities. I don't wear my personality on my sleeves.

In fact, it's not sufficient even merely to be average, else women have no reason to talk to you more than anyone else.

So why am I objectifying myself in this way? Because I want a woman (at least at the beginning) to objectify me ( particularly more than other guys).

Anyways, help me objectify myself: Rate me on a scale from 1-100 (1 being the ugliest)?

Here is the honest to god truth... Asking people if you are attractive is the very reason you don't have a gf. Attractive matters about 10% of the time.

Personality is another thing. Fact is, girls are going to be attracted to the person who is most secure in himself. Look at me... I am not the most attractive person in the world by far. I am overweight, out of shape, hairy and don't generally dress that well. Still, I have at least 300 different girls numbers in my phone and go out on an almost nightly basis with women who would love to be with me. The reason: I am motivated, self aware, confident in myself and in the abilities of others, positive most of the time, thoughtful, considerate and above all... charming. With these qualities alone, I can have almost anyone I want.

If you question yourself, others will question you. If you doubt yourself, others will doubt you. If you do not respect yourself, no one else will either. Be, in your heart who you want others to see you as. The rest is just weeding through the masses to find the one you like.

@Icon,

Icon wrote:

...Still, I have at least 300 different girls numbers in my phone and go out on an almost nightly basis with women who would love to be with me. The reason: I am motivated, self aware, confident in myself and in the abilities of others, positive most of the time, thoughtful, considerate and above all... charming. With these qualities alone, I can have almost anyone I want.

If you question yourself, others will question you. If you doubt yourself, others will doubt you. If you do not respect yourself, no one else will either. Be, in your heart who you want others to see you as. The rest is just weeding through the masses to find the one you like.

Looooooooooooool! Really Icon, I hope you had at least a FEW turn-downs? It would be really bad for your hm mental development if you would win all and everything :bigsmile: . Sounds all a bit like a conquest here, women are not there to be harvested. I guess we're talking about Love, ba-by... (sticky song). Besides, "If you doubt yourself".. you will grow! Actually I understand Bonny's state of mind very well. I hope he will not spoil it by becoming too much of a Casanova in time. So beautiful is youth, so beautiful are its uncertainties and hopes. Yes, we all had our "Summer of 43" (or was it 42? No matter...)

Hm, and were you (or anybody around here) never looking for the "special one"? I tried a few too, but I got stuck with the best one. Subjective statement? H... no man, she is the best and she will ever be! Hope you will find.. Her! Wishing you the best. C.

@Catchabula,

Catchabula wrote:

Looooooooooooool! Really Icon, I hope you had at least a FEW turn-downs? It would be really bad for your hm mental development if you would win all and everything :bigsmile: . Sounds all a bit like a conquest here, women are not there to be harvested. I guess we're talking about Love, ba-by... (sticky song). Besides, "If you doubt yourself".. you will grow! Actually I understand Bonny's state of mind very well. I hope he will not spoil it by becoming too much of a Casanova in time. So beautiful is youth, so beautiful are its uncertainties and hopes. Yes, we all had our "Summer of 43" (or was it 42? No matter...)

Of course I have had my share of turn-downs. Not as many as successes though (depending on your definition of success). Doubting myself takes too much time. I used to do it all the time and ended up alone and miserable because I had no faith in myself. Then I discovered a simple truth. Right and Wrong are subjective and so long as you learn from your mistakes, you will always be a better person in the end. I am not stringing these women along, nor am I dating or have I dated every single one of them. I am merely the type of person that they wish to be around. I make them feel good about themselves, like they can do no wrong. I make them smile and laugh and I talk to them when they have troubles. I am there when they need a shoulder to cry on and when they need someone they can trust. At anytime, if I wanted them, I could have them. Seduce the mind and the body is yours.

Catchabula wrote:

Hm, and were you (or anybody around here) never looking for the "special one"? I tried a few too, but I got stuck with the best one. Subjective statement? H... no man, she is the best and she will ever be! Hope you will find.. Her! Wishing you the best. C.

As far as love goes, I have been there. I had the perfect woman and I let it go because I was unsure of myself and unsure of our future. We were 18. She was a russian citizen living in the states and we met by chance. She was and is the most beautiful woman I have ever seen with a smile that could light up the darkest night and a voice which could pull me from the depth of the greatest woe. We were engaged for a year when she got pregnant and things got complicated. It has been many years now and my heart is still a bit rough around the edges. My biggest problem is that I know exactly what I want but have yet to meet anyone who can qualify. I still keep an ear to the ground and a watchful eye but I must be cautious as to not let my mind take over where matters of the heart are concerned.

At the age of 24, I am still young and alive and I still have plenty of time to find that which I desire. Currently, my career and my others loves (writing, philosophy, science, art, and creation) have taken the front line of thought and desire.

@Catchabula,

I've been looking in on this thread from time to time and I'm surprised no one has brought up the great equalizer. Cash. Moolah. Green-leafy spendy money. Look at Flava-flave from the VH1's "flavor of love." If a dude that nasty can get that many nasty women on him? it has to be money! LOL!

But I bet you this book would be a good bridge between the philosophical aspect and the practical aspect. The book is called Art of Seduction by Robert Greene. I got hooked on his other books ( 33 Strategies of War, and The 48 Rules of Power) because they had a very practical approach to basic principles and historical references. Very interesting reads.

But anyway, The art of Seduction goes through the process of first defining the type of "seductive character" you are. For example, you may be "the charismatic," "the charmer," or "the anti-seducer." Here is a little except of an anti-seducer.

VideCorSpoon wrote:

"The seducer draws you in by the focused, individualized attention they give to you. Anti-Seducers are the opposite: insecure. Self-absorbed, and unable to grasp the psychology of another person, they literally repel. Anti-seducers have no self awareness, and never realize when they are pestering, imposing, talking too much. Root out anti-seductive qualities in yourself and recognize them in others - there is no pleasure or profit in dealing with the anti-seducer." (Greene, Xiii)

Basically what you are supposed to do is honestly identify yourself with a type of person you really are. Then the book will make these wonderful historical generalities that describe what the anti-seducer for example can do to change and go after a specific type of "victim" which the book refers to as women because you are essentially (in his prose) on the prowl for a woman. I would like to add that I don't necessarily agree with the objectification of the woman as the victim, but this is just a fascinating read in an objective context.

He then identifies the types of "victims" the "seducer" is likely to encounter, such as "the pampered royal," or the "disillusioned dreamer." The rest of the book is dedicated to the "seductive process."

Here is the "seductive process" according to Greene.

1.Choose the right victim
2.Create a false sense of security - Approach indirectly
3.Send mixed signals
4.Appear to be an object of desire - create triangles
5.Create the need - stir anxiety and discontent
6.Master the art of insinuation
7.Enter their spirit
8.Create temptation

The when you have succeeded in "the draw," you enter phase two.

9.Keep them in suspense - What comes next?
10.Use the demonic power of words to sow confusion
11.Pay attention to detail
12.Poeticize your presence
13.Disarm through strategic weakness and vulnerability
14.Confuse desire and reality - the perfect illusion
15.Isolate the victim
16.Etc, etc, etc.

The book goes on. Each one of these chapters is packed with historical examples and "tactical" approaches to a over poetized operation? attracting a significant other.

Personally, when it comes to women, I really don't think it pays to act like a stoic philosopher lost in apathy. Unless that's the type of woman you would like to attract. By the way, getting a girl friend is never a hopeless cause or a reflection of your own "decrepitude" in matter romantic. You have to work for it and look at it practically. It's like the lottery. You may not hit it, but you can decrease your odds with statistics and probability. Think of getting hit by lightning. Though the odds are low in being struck by lightning, you can very well influence the odds of getting struck. Stand in the middle of a golf course with a huge metal pole with a tin-foil helmet with dazzlers on (well? you don't need the dazzlers, but it would complete the ensemble) in a storm. Lightning may indeed strike.

@Icon,

Icon wrote:

...Then I discovered a simple truth. Right and Wrong are subjective and so long as you learn from your mistakes, you will always be a better person in the end. I am not stringing these women along, nor am I dating or have I dated every single one of them. I am merely the type of person that they wish to be around. I make them feel good about themselves, like they can do no wrong. I make them smile and laugh and I talk to them when they have troubles. I am there when they need a shoulder to cry on and when they need someone they can trust. At anytime, if I wanted them, I could have them. Seduce the mind and the body is yours.

Hohoho, lots of mixed feelings here (I must be fast because there are other pressing matters around here). Right and wrong subjective? No way! Especialy in these matters you can do a LOT of Wrong (mind the capital W), but you can act Rightly too. You can break hearts and wreck lives, you can leave a track of misery, following your own agenda. You can see the body and not the mind, you can despise the mind by only seeing the body. There can be disrespect, treachery, humiliation, alienation in this game, not to mention the worse of them all: ego?sm (I and me and I and me...) Your relations can be shallow not to say unworthy of yourself and the other (sex while being drugged, or drunk...brrr :nonooo: ). Just mentioning this because it could have some general relevance for the young of today, for the age we live in. I just wanted to mention one other side here. I (well, let's talk about me then) I'm personally practising the Art of Love in an other of its many dimensions now. Yet it is an obvious and widespread form, I try to help my wife who is severely ill and often in pain. We used to have sex very often once, but that's all over; what we have now is better. But of course this is far beyond Bonny's present horizon...

Icon wrote:

As far as love goes, I have been there. I had the perfect woman and I let it go because I was unsure of myself and unsure of our future. We were 18. She was a russian citizen living in the states and we met by chance. She was and is the most beautiful woman I have ever seen with a smile that could light up the darkest night and a voice which could pull me from the depth of the greatest woe. We were engaged for a year when she got pregnant and things got complicated. It has been many years now and my heart is still a bit rough around the edges. My biggest problem is that I know exactly what I want but have yet to meet anyone who can qualify. I still keep an ear to the ground and a watchful eye but I must be cautious as to not let my mind take over where matters of the heart are concerned.

Hurray! Bravo!! An unrestrained flood of apreciation here! Live, love, enjoy, think, feel, cry, laugh... and remember and wonder. There is but one enemy: time, the irreversible flow of time! Its merciless tic-tac, its cold passing-by, its ruthless hunger. Second chances happen, they happen a second time, there may be even a third time but no forth. Once there will be our last words, our last thoughts, the last face we see, our last kiss. I think we better take Love seriously in this respect. My wish for all your birthdays to come: don't live without love, so you don't die without it. Again: I do wish you the best. No doubt about it Smile

Icon wrote:

At the age of 24, I am still young and alive and I still have plenty of time to find that which I desire. Currently, my career and my others loves (writing, philosophy, science, art, and creation) have taken the front line of thought and desire.

Nice work. Now let's go on philosophising ok? Smile

@Bonaventurian,

Got to go! Got to go! Quick, quick... two things. Firstly, there must be at least ONE woman in this room. Oh noble creatures, wonders of the world, act as Eowin in the LOTR-movie. Take off your helmet and shake your golden locks. Beat our demons or awake them. Can one woman please give her opinion here?? This could matter to all of us...

Secondly, reference list. Kierkegaard's "Diary of a Seducer" and in particular his analysis of Mozart's Don Giovanni. And of course the strange Memoirs of Casanova, in his old age a librarian (just like me ;-) ). Nobody saw the Fellini-movie? Ah, sorry. Old stuff...

@Catchabula,

Catchabula wrote:

Secondly, reference list. Kierkegaard's "Diary of a Seducer" and in particular his analysis of Mozart's Don Giovanni. And of course the strange Memoirs of Casanova, in his old age a librarian (just like me ;-) ). Nobody saw the Fellini-movie? Ah, sorry. Old stuff...

Because we all know that Kierkegaard was wildly successful in his love life. LOL! I think the same could be said of Casanova in all permutations of his story.

@Catchabula,

Catchabula wrote:

Hohoho, lots of mixed feelings here (I must be fast because there are other pressing matters around here). Right and wrong subjective? No way! Especialy in these matters you can do a LOT of Wrong (mind the capital W), but you can act Rightly too. You can break hearts and wreck lives, you can leave a track of misery, following your own agenda. You can see the body and not the mind, you can despise the mind by only seeing the body. There can be disrespect, treachery, humiliation, alienation in this game, not to mention the worse of them all: ego?sm (I and me and I and me...) Your relations can be shallow not to say unworthy of yourself and the other (sex while being drugged, or drunk...brrr :nonooo: ). Just mentioning this because it could have some general relevance for the young of today, for the age we live in. I just wanted to mention one other side here. I (well, let's talk about me then) I'm personally practising the Art of Love in an other of its many dimensions now. Yet it is an obvious and widespread form, I try to help my wife who is severely ill and often in pain. We used to have sex very often once, but that's all over; what we have now is better. But of course this is far beyond Bonny's present horizon...

Hurray! Bravo!! An unrestrained flood of apreciation here! Live, love, enjoy, think, feel, cry, laugh... and remember and wonder. There is but one enemy: time, the irreversible flow of time! Its merciless tic-tac, its cold passing-by, its ruthless hunger. Second chances happen, they happen a second time, there may be even a third time but no forth. Once there will be our last words, our last thoughts, the last face we see, our last kiss. I think we better take Love seriously in this respect. My wish for all your birthdays to come: don't live without love, so you don't die without it. Again: I do wish you the best. No doubt about it

Nice work. Now let's go on philosophising ok?

Right and wrong are relative because there is no argument good enough for any right to totally overwhelm and force into rightness what is wrong.

See it from the positive point of view: The less time you have left, closer you are of a new beggining Smile

@VideCorSpoon,

Books, I hate them!!! (I'm saying this with the voice of a girl who is madly in love). They forced me to come back. Of course I forgot "Les Liaisons Dangereuses" (Dangerous Liaisons), by Choderlos de la Clos (movies by Milos Forman and Stephen Frears). It is one of these "moral stories" that are in fact treating Immorality, and still have an awful lot of relevance for today. Some with the "Diary..." of Kierkegaard, that is part btw of a larger view (the "Enten... Eller..."), treating Life and its Stages. The book of Robert Greene being just a late branch on that tree. If you're taking it seriously do it the right way ;-)

@VideCorSpoon,

VideCorSpoon wrote:

Here is the "seductive process" according to Greene.

1.Choose the right victim
2.Create a false sense of security - Approach indirectly
3.Send mixed signals
4.Appear to be an object of desire - create triangles
5.Create the need - stir anxiety and discontent
6.Master the art of insinuation
7.Enter their spirit
8.Create temptation

The when you have succeeded in "the draw," you enter phase two.

9.Keep them in suspense - What comes next?
10.Use the demonic power of words to sow confusion
11.Pay attention to detail
12.Poeticize your presence
13.Disarm through strategic weakness and vulnerability
14.Confuse desire and reality - the perfect illusion
15.Isolate the victim
16.Etc, etc, etc.

The book goes on. Each one of these chapters is packed with historical examples and "tactical" approaches to a over poetized operation? attracting a significant other.

Sounds like sociopathic manipulation for Dummies? Smile

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