Our goal is to figure out the universe.

@withawhy,

Well I think that the appreciation from some randow persons wont make much difference for a philosopher Smile

@manored,

manored;40746 wrote:

Well I think that the appreciation from some randow persons wont make much difference for a philosopher

The 'feeling' of being appreciated is all warm and fuzzy, whether you are a philosopher or a murderer. We all enjoy the 'feeling' of being appreciated, not taken for granted, no?
BTW, 'philosophers' are just random persons like everyone...

@nameless,

nameless wrote:

The 'feeling' of being appreciated is all warm and fuzzy, whether you are a philosopher or a murderer. We all enjoy the 'feeling' of being appreciated, not taken for granted, no?
BTW, 'philosophers' are just random persons like everyone...

But his thinking suggests that he is the kind of person who acts not desiring or caring to be praised or apreciated. I probally should have used "the philosopher" instead Smile

@manored,

manored;40757 wrote:

But his thinking suggests that he is the kind of person who acts not desiring or caring to be praised or apreciated. I probally should have used "the philosopher" instead

It matters not a whit whether someone desires or cares about 'appreciation' ('praise' is not the same as 'appreciation'), it is nevertheless appreciated and enjoyed.

@nameless,

nameless wrote:

"The only way that we shall ever recapture the sort of knowledge Lao-Tsu referred to in his dictum, "Those who know, do not speak", is by subordinating the question "how shall we know?" to the more existentially vital question, "How shall we live?"

Those who know, do not speak. Seems quite selfish to me. Or maybe I missed the point.

@withawhy,

withawhy wrote:

Those who know, do not speak. Seems quite selfish to me. Or maybe I missed the point.

If you know something you know nobody else will believe, you wont tell it Smile

@manored,

manored wrote:

If you know something you know nobody else will believe, you wont tell it

I could see the urge to remain silent in fear of being persecuted or ridiculed. I could even see knowing something that noone else knows or understands making you feel so disassociated from other humans that you no longer feel a part of them. I suppose it depends what this knowledge is. Is the knowledge good, bad, insightful.

Reminds me of when I read in the new testament how Jesus often referred to himself as not being from this world, from being different than the humans. When asked why he taught in parables, he told his disciples it was the only way the people would understand.

If the news is good or helpful, I think its our duty to figure a way to pass on the knowledge Smile

@withawhy,

withawhy wrote:

I could see the urge to remain silent in fear of being persecuted or ridiculed. I could even see knowing something that noone else knows or understands making you feel so disassociated from other humans that you no longer feel a part of them. I suppose it depends what this knowledge is. Is the knowledge good, bad, insightful.

Reminds me of when I read in the new testament how Jesus often referred to himself as not being from this world, from being different than the humans. When asked why he taught in parables, he told his disciples it was the only way the people would understand.

If the news is good or helpful, I think its our duty to figure a way to pass on the knowledge

Bravo! My friend. Many of the wise have by necessity been isolated from the maddening crowd for fear of their very lives as truth has never been a popular subject. Nor is it now except for those who are ready to hear it. Those who are not will deem it bad, biased, bigoted, hateful for it differs from their own personal perceived truths that they depend on to survive, regardless of any universal truth their may be.

This is what is so great about this venue we call the world wide web. For the very first time in the history of our being, we now can communicate without fear of repercussion. I think that's the case anyway. I have no idea of how any of this works or just how secluded I am nor do I care. I am just glad we have this platform in which we can talk and communicate.

Good post,:a-ok:
William

@withawhy,

Some things one must learn on his own though, or rather, would require such an elaborate procedure to learn with the help of someone that the learner would need to have too great disposition and confidence in the master, and for that to happen the master would need to be greater than common people in one area that the learner wished to be great as well... example: Because Jesus proved his knowledge and link to god through his miracles, people were willing to follow him to the end of the world to learn his lesson.

@withawhy,

withawhy;40801 wrote:

Those who know, do not speak. Seems quite selfish to me. Or maybe I missed the point.

Perhaps if you did, you wouldn't. It probably wouldn't. You probably wouldn't.

It is not a selfish withholding, it is simply inability.

"In Silentium, Verum!" ("In Silence, Truth!") -Book of Fudd (1:1)

One thing that I have found is that opposing Perspectives self cancel. Once you understand other opposite Perspectives, one can no longer stand and defend/propagate any one particular Perspective. The less one 'knows/understands', the narrower the Perspective, the louder one supports and defends any one Perspective. The wider the 'included angle' of the Perspective, the less one can say, as all Perspectives are, ultimately, valid;
"For every Perspective, there is an equal and opposite Perspective!" -Book of Fudd (1:2)

@withawhy,

That's all really cool, ......however could we not ponder every perspective has an equal/or opposite perspective? this would allow points where perspectives split.
just a thought :shocked:
TTFn

@schloopfeng,

schloopfeng;40838 wrote:

That's all really cool, ......however could we not ponder every perspective has an equal/or opposite perspective?

No. All Perspectives are unique (by definition).

@withawhy,

Hello again,
Agreed, but that was not what I was getting at, you see by definition "opposite" will be equal, therefore no need for the &. What I am trying to find is a way of plotting different perspectives to gain an overview, some perspectives are similar & equal, & understanding of them all provides a clearer picture of the subject, as earlier in this thread it was suggested that we map the universe what I am trying to achieve here is a way of mapping concepts & viewpoints, this could be fruitless & I could be going nowhere with this, but where's the harm in finding out? Call it "conceptual cartography for dummies" if you like.(the dummy to which I refer is only myself as I am my worst critic).
Cheers ....TTFN
:shocked:

@schloopfeng,

schloopfeng;40874 wrote:

What I am trying to find is a way of plotting different perspectives to gain an overview, some perspectives are similar & equal, & understanding of them all provides a clearer picture of the subject,

The 'equal' was in reference to the 'value/exactness' of the 'opposition'.
Plotting.. interesting.
The complete definition/description of the universe at the moment of definition is the sum total of all Perspectives!
So 'gaining a bit of Perspective' certainly gives a fuller description/understanding of what is.
Plot on...

Quote:

by definition “opposite” will be equal, therefore no need for the &.

You are, of course, correct. My sloppy. *__-

Quote:

as earlier in this thread it was suggested that we map the universe what I am trying to achieve here is a way of mapping concepts & viewpoints, this could be fruitless

Or not. Do you mean to expand your own consciousness to access various Perspectives, or do you mean to synthesize/forge accessable Perspectives (other people's notions) into a 'new hypothesis'?

Quote:

& I could be going nowhere with this, but where’s the harm in finding out?

Do the experiment! There is no reason, that I can see, why the endeavor cannot be fruitful. The kind of 'fruit' can only be known after it ripens...

Quote:

Call it “conceptual cartography for dummies” if you like.(the dummy to which I refer is only myself as I am my worst critic).

Psychonaut?

@withawhy,

Late though I am, I'd love to toss in a few thoughts here...

withawhy wrote:

Our goal is to figure out the universe.

I like the feel of this statement; unfortunately, it seems to be based on the direct insinuation that it's even possible to 'figure out' the universe. To what extent? What of the limits of human knowledge, even if our minds expand exponentially for the next 10,000 years, could we ever 'figure out' much? How might we take into account that each of us remains locked within the biased jail-bars of indivdual perspective? While I'd heartily agree that working to understand the universe in which we live is both worthy and satisfying, there'll likely be no end-point where I could lean back against a tree, let out a sigh of relief and say (with any accuracy), "There, I've figered that out!". Perhaps where you're coming from is not so disparate, I thought it nice to add though.

withawhy wrote:

After that, we are not needed here.

Again, nice thought. I don't think any of us are 'needed' anyway; my view is that we simple 'are', and aren't imbued with any real necessity as beings.

withawhy wrote:

Death of the body is natural and necessary. Death of the body lets your consciousness continue onto better things. Life is a gift, an adventure. Cherish every moment and help others do the same.

Nice writing, really. The part of 'consciousness continuing' is a belief (or a hope). And if I could plaster one thought into the mind of everyone who has value to me it'd be that last statement; the sum total of disasisfaction in the world just might abate (or perhaps be eliminated?) were we to simply be grateful for the moments we do have.

Thanks

@Khethil,

Khethil wrote:

Nice writing, really. The part of 'consciousness continuing' is a belief (or a hope). And if I could plaster one thought into the mind of everyone who has value to me it'd be that last statement; the sum total of disasisfaction in the world just might abate (or perhaps be eliminated?) were we to simply be grateful for the moments we do have.

Well put my friend. If I might add a few comments. Altruistically, I have to agree with you. Unfortunately, as you have alluded to, most who "have" don't truly appreciate what they do have. How so very sad that is in a world in which the majority of it's occupants have so little yet can find an appreciation in the little they do have. I am not sure if this is what you meant by "moments", but I think it is applicable. We can learn a lot from those who have so little. IMO.
William

@withawhy,

I remember of reading or hearing somewhere that some of the richer countries in the world got the saddest populaces, and vice-versa. I dont think its because people from those poor contries are especially wise, but rather that the more power (or money) you have the more worries you have, and the more worries you have harder it is to be happy, unless you have an esportive aproach to life. So I suppose (and believe) that happiness has more to see with your mental attitude than anything else Smile

@manored,

Ive had a few days off work and felt guilty laying in the mornings..i thought what time should i get up when life has no direct purpose...then i thought you sad bar steward is that your biggest problem? no it aint far from it so why should i worry about such trivia?? I have much important things like solving the mysteries of the universe..

@xris,

xris wrote:

Ive had a few days off work and felt guilty laying in the mornings..i thought what time should i get up when life has no direct purpose...then i thought you sad bar steward is that your biggest problem? no it aint far from it so why should i worry about such trivia?? I have much important things like solving the mysteries of the universe..

Please use punctuation, it is very hard to understand what you said like this Smile

The answer to that question is: "Whatever time you want". See, its a lot easier to think in the answer then you arent in the situation that makes you ask the question Smile

@Khethil,

Khethil wrote:

I like the feel of this statement; unfortunately, it seems to be based on the direct insinuation that it's even possible to 'figure out' the universe.

Speculative, of course, but imagine self aware beings are some sort of an end goal. We are here now, investigators in this new land. Imagine this universe isnt all there is, we exist elsewhere as well, before all this, but found this stuff called matter. We put our consciousness into it (big bang) and slowly (or quickly, its all relative, right?) created living things, animals, self aware humans. We had no conscious control over the evolutionary process, but knew, based on the trial and error nature of evolution, life would eventually exist and from that conscious thought, or a direct connection.

Whatever created this is very similar to us. (Us meaning the voice in your head, not the body you use). We are creating new biological life forms, we are creating artificial intelligence. Why? Why do we send robots into outer space and onto other planets before we send humans? What are the robots doing for us?

As Steven Hawkings said, its just a matter of time before we completely figure out the "how" of the universe. We will then be left with the question why?

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