Our goal is to figure out the universe.

@withawhy,

If we could exactly figure out the universe, we would need to have a map which was an exact replica of the universe. As we looked at the map, we would see ourselves looking at the map.

If we projected forward in time using the map, we would see ourselves doing something in the future. If we could then be able to contradict this by intentionally doing something else, we would prove the map innacurate.

So, completely figuring out the universe would entail a loss of free will.

Or would it??

Perhaps it would entail the will to completely control the entire universe.

But this would be because of only figuring out THIS little universe.
The entire COSMOS is another story.

@Poseidon,

Poseidon wrote:

... As we looked at the map, we would see ourselves looking at the map.

I have experienced this. However, I would describe it more like this: As I looked at the map, we would see myself looking at the map.

@withawhy,

Personally my goal is to explore .... explorers don't use maps ....they make them ..... some just wander & allow themselves to get lost.....however if you accept that you are in the universe then i guess you are never truly lost.
Not sure why I'm saying this ...... I just am .....
TTFN:shocked:

@schloopfeng,

We are products of our universe. Consciousness is a product of our universe. We seem to forget this in every day life. The best way to discover the mysteries of the universe is to look in ourselves.

@withawhy,

withawhy wrote:

We are products of our universe. Consciousness is a product of our universe. We seem to forget this in every day life. The best way to discover the mysteries of the universe is to look in ourselves.

Its the greatest gift to look to search new horizons..I think when we debate, disagree we are searching the universe..On another note it is said by QM we are all in contact on a subatomic level and in contact with everything in the universe..could it be we are all omnipresent...

@withawhy,

withawhy wrote:

Our goal is to figure out the universe. After that, we are not needed here. Death of the body is natural and necessary. Death of the body lets your consciousness continue onto better things. Life is a gift, an adventure. Cherish every moment and help others do the same.

Hello Withawhy.
Nice post. If I might offer a little here for you to think about. At first glance it would seem you are thinking it an "existing puzzle" for us to conquer. If I am interpreting you accurately. In that we are a part of that universe, think along the line of us "traveling with it" as it evolves. There is a simplicity to the universe and it all works identically from the infinitely small, to the infinitely immense. I like the way your mind works and your post is right on the mark only it implies an end assuming we will figure it all out. That's a toss up question and IMO, life is an eternal journey that will never end as we evolve with the universe where ever it leads.

You see in my opinion, that one little flaw in our thinking is what get's us in so much trouble as we try to predict a future that doesn't exist. We don't like going around that corner unless be can be reasonably assured of what is around that corner. Schloopfeng was close when he fizzled, Ha, but serendipity will occur reinforcing our positive thoughts with positive answers once we begin working together. Yes, IMO, we will venture into the unknown but it will not be out of curiosity, fear or conquest; it will be the "right" thing to do based on the positive nature of our thinking that propels us. It will just seem to fit. That is divine thinking. That is God in motion. Mankind, IMO, has enormous potential, but until we begin to use that power positively, we will only use it to destroy ourselves.

Xris, is so very correct. We are all connected with everything. Harmony is a crucial element and will be that guidepost that will keep us on course. I can only dream of where that course will lead. :a-ok:

Nice post my friend, keep 'em coming.
Your friend,
William

@withawhy,

My thinking is very close to yours, William, except that I think there are no correct or wrong paths, only pleasurable and anoying paths... like watching humanity colonize other planets would be a pleasurable for me, while watching it destroy itself in nuclear holocaust would be anoying Smile

And I think those are the two possible outcomes for humanity: we will either kill ourselves before space colonization, or colonize space and only be extinguished then the whole universe as we know it collapses.

@withawhy,

withawhy wrote:

We are products of our universe. Consciousness is a product of our universe. We seem to forget this in every day life. The best way to discover the mysteries of the universe is to look in ourselves.

... as well, the best way to discover the ceaseless creativity of the universe is to look within and around ourselves ... we are both historical creations of the universe as well as instruments in its creative future ... with each act of creation, the universe introduces an abundance of new affordances for its next act of creation ... and in terms of new affordances, its creation of thinking beings was a doozy - that is, if the universe can create thinking beings without thinking beings, just imagine what it can create with them! Wink

@withawhy,

Hello Again All,
...... So I fizzled lol .....I do that a lot ....the reason for that was simple, I found an unexplored path & decided to investigate. The question that I was then drawn to was what goal is actually important? The only conclusion that seemed to fit after much jumbling of many was survival, I feel that if we continue down a survival path then eventually such things as understanding the universe would fall together as a by-product, every decision taken in life (& even death in dire cases) is basically survival based, what education, career & lifestyle you choose has a direct bearing on whether you, your peers or even your entire species in some cases survive.
All the great minds of our time (I use the term loosely as all the minds of our time are in fact great) were placed in the positions that they found themselves in by circumstances caused by mankind's quest for survival, we all need to eat, we are so overpopulated now that the task of feeding us requires order & control, this created society, the simple term "variety is the spice of life" illustrates this, for us to have variety for example, meat with vegetables and a nice pud afterwards with perhaps a nice assam to wash it down, we need one person growing the veg, one tending the cattle, one growing the tea & so on, there was a surplus of people who needed income to be able to feed themselves & so careers & schemes were set up, philosophers just got lucky I suppose.
Do not think for one minute that I am discounting or undermining those "great minds" in any way, they played a most vital role in the constructions of our societies & have fuelled our advance.
Nuff said for now ......work in progress.
:shocked:
TTFN

@withawhy,

Why is it that religious twekes and science freaks, computer geeks and power sheiks, plus philosophizing thoutghless speaks, never exert their energies into the "cosmos". With all the universe to ponder wouldn't it be great to wonder if you could be part of yonder and how that part would be. What colour sun would you be, as a planet would you be habitable, are you a galaxy, rather than just the space in between.

@schloopfeng,

schloopfeng wrote:

Hello Again All,
...... So I fizzled lol .....I do that a lot ....the reason for that was simple, I found an unexplored path & decided to investigate. The question that I was then drawn to was what goal is actually important? The only conclusion that seemed to fit after much jumbling of many was survival, I feel that if we continue down a survival path then eventually such things as understanding the universe would fall together as a by-product, every decision taken in life (& even death in dire cases) is basically survival based, what education, career & lifestyle you choose has a direct bearing on whether you, your peers or even your entire species in some cases.
All the great minds of our time (I use the term loosely as all the minds of our time are in fact great) were placed in the positions that they found themselves in by circumstances caused by mankind's quest for survival, we all need to eat, we are so overpopulated now that the task of feeding us requires order & control, this created society, the simple term "variety is the spice of life" illustrates this, for us to have variety for example, meat with vegetables and a nice pud afterwards with perhaps a nice assam to wash it down, we need one person growing the veg, one tending the cattle, one growing the tea & so on, there was a surplus of people who needed income to be able to feed themselves & so careers & schemes were set up, philosophers just got lucky I suppose.
Do not think for one minute that I am discounting or undermining those "great minds" in any way, they played a most vital role in the constructions of our societies & have fuelled our advance.
Nuff said for now ......work in progress.
:shocked:
TTFN

I went down that path too, and found the same conclusion. survival of the species is a nice goal in my opinion, but it requires people to agree with it, and most people nowadays favor their survival in detriment of the whole if necessary.

If I can chose what I will be in my next life, I chose to be a bodyless god toying around a world similar to the one we live in right now Smile

@withawhy,

Are we creating us? we think, therefor we are. if us were your mind's "I", for what would this be? we think, therefor we thought. subconsciously we thought, therefor we are. if thought were the gift to change what is, what does that make us? If you can read this, you can change this. If you can change this, you are. We simply are. We have no real guidance, no parents, no teachers and no boss. We are disciplined by our morals, we are driven by our curiosity and we are guided by our spirituality. When we realize the freedom we do have, we start to understand the true gift this is. Your body is an animal that you are controlling.

William, you bring up a good point in that we are simply traveling with this ever evolving universe. What I find interesting is as this universe evolved from the beginning of time, it has slowly spun in a way to create conscious, self aware thought. Humans are, like a spinning planet, simply creations of the universe. Perhaps self aware thought is what it is like to hear the universe evolve?

@withawhy,

withawhy;40108 wrote:

Our goal is to figure out the universe. After that, we are not needed here. Death of the body is natural and necessary. Death of the body lets your consciousness continue onto better things. Life is a gift, an adventure. Cherish every moment and help others do the same.

Thought you might like this (I cannot remember the author; from somewhere on the net...);

"The only way that we shall ever recapture the sort of knowledge Lao-Tsu referred to in his dictum, "Those who know, do not speak", is by subordinating the question "how shall we know?" to the more existentially vital question, "How shall we live?"
To ask this question is to insist that the primary purpose of human existence is not to devise ways of piling up ever greater heaps of knowledge, but to discover ways to 'live', from day to day, that integrate the whole of our nature by way of yielding nobility of conduct, honest fellowship, and joy. And to achieve these ends, a man need perhaps know very little in the conventional, intellectual sense of the word. But, what he does know, and may only be able to express by eloquent silence, by the grace of his most commonplace daily gestures, will approach more closely to whatever 'reality' is, than the more dogged and disciplined intellectual behavior."

Peace

@withawhy,

Though I do thank you Nameless for the post, I hope either one of us, find the original to thank them for their effort as well.

@withawhy,

Consider it a peace offering.

Option A: Believe in yourself and venture beyond the realm of this existence; strike it lucky and share the fortunes with others or stike out and find you are less than the thought, that is a comet. A mere asteroid.

Option B: Follow like sheep to recount the past, until the universe bares down upon you.

The Earth has taken the bombardment of your dissatisfaction.
The Earth has little enough to house you all.
The Earth has been given over to the meek.

To the lives that come. Cheers.

@withawhy,

That doesnt really makes much sense, mind trying again? Smile

@withawhy,

Schloopfeng, you have no idea of how many times I have "fizzled" when reaching for answers. Wow! I do sincerely hope you believe my comment was entirely in jest and meant no disrespect whatsoever.:a-ok:

William

@withawhy,

But of course .... i'm sure we are all proud of our "fizzles" ... after all they're the best bits ....in fact i should add that it's pleasing just to know that someone has read something that I have written and deemed it worthy of comment .......even if someone gives me a real slating i take that as a gift to make me work harder .... ther'es no offence taken here :a-ok:
TTFN

@urangutan,

urangutan;40610 wrote:

Though I do thank you Nameless for the post, I hope either one of us, find the original to thank them for their effort as well.

I'd really like to say that it was from Alan Watts, but I just don't recall. I tried a line in a search, but got nothing other than this. I'm sure that the author will feel our 'appreciation', how can he not?!? Though we have no control, the 'appreciation' can find it's own destination in a moment! *__-

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