If God was a member of the forum

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Fido
 
Reply Fri 1 Aug, 2008 02:01 pm
@one-philosophy,
one-philosophy wrote:
As a muslim I have to accept there is only one God full stop that hasn't any brothers rivals or equals etc etc.

YouTube - Surah Al Ikhlas

Say "God is just one,
sustainer of everything that exists,
He does not beget (take sons or heirs), nor is he begotten (the heir or son to anything.
Any to him there is no equivilent/comparison."

Basically, God has no brother, no mother, no master. God is supreme above everything.
Anyway, I think I light be going a little :offtopic:so I'll cut it there.

I don't have to accept, but I observe that even if God is an objective singular reality, that The God is percieved differently by all. We don't know, when we say God, that we are even talking romotely of the same phenomena. And we do not know when we are talking of justice or love whether we are talking of the same reality. And it is the effort we put forth to prove we are talking of the same reality that makes God, and justice, and love, and everything imaginable into forms of relationship. So long as we are trying to determine the character and quality of God we are not killing some one on the basis of a difference of definition. And if I may, it is retarded to kill for God.

If we say we accept one God, and they say they accept one God, and both say their own God is good, and promotes human virtue, how could one of us be wrong, really? But to hear a Christian deny the God-ness of the Muslim God is crazy, and is an invitation to intolerance. People do not have different suns because the time we see it is different. And if we see God in a different frame of reference, it does not mean either reference is wrong. And I say that with no profound experience of God, thinking my definition of God meaningless before a definiton of self, or of humanity. Before I say, I believe; I must say who is I? (Who am I?) Maybe the answer to the first question must be resolved together with the second, but I think to know self one must look at the world with the courage to be alone, without God to guide. Thanks
 
Aedes
 
Reply Fri 1 Aug, 2008 02:27 pm
@one-philosophy,
one-philosophy wrote:
God is supreme above everything.
No -- he's wholly subservient to the human ability to differentially conceive what he is or what he wants.
 
Richardgrant
 
Reply Sat 2 Aug, 2008 08:15 am
@andykelly,
To me the true nature of God, is at the center of all motion, centering that motion, God is at that centering force within me, the Christ consciousness, which is the basis of all creation, its at this level all my questions are answered. For I and the Father are One, the 'I' being all inclusive.
 
Holiday20310401
 
Reply Sat 2 Aug, 2008 10:06 am
@Richardgrant,
Richardgrant wrote:
To me the true nature of God, is at the center of all motion, centering that motion, God is at that centering force within me, the Christ consciousness, which is the basis of all creation, its at this level all my questions are answered. For I and the Father are One, the 'I' being all inclusive.


So in other words ... :drinking:... God is us. I am within God's abilities?! Not quite the way I'd word it but.. here one sec, got to digest this info. .... :drinking:.... ok I think I can understand what you're saying:a-ok::disappointed:
 
Richardgrant
 
Reply Sat 2 Aug, 2008 12:15 pm
@Holiday20310401,
I see God and Mind being the same thing, what I see out in the material world is a reflection of God (mind) in motion, which is a reflection of my own consciousness of who I AM
 
Vasska
 
Reply Sat 2 Aug, 2008 01:31 pm
@Richardgrant,
Then I demand to know how he got past the CAPTCHA security password!

Anyhow, depending how I see God, he'd be one of those members to cause chaos and dismay in a forum, and then leave. Never to be seen again.
 
Critz
 
Reply Sat 2 Aug, 2008 01:43 pm
@de Silentio,
de Silentio wrote:
If God were a member of this forum, the forum would totally change face. There would be no more room for discussion, since he would just give us all the answers.


He hasn't given us all the answers (assuming he exists and is a he) in the however many years he/we have existed, why would joining this forum entice him to do so? :whistling:

And If he were an atall caring member, im sure he would fix wthe lag problem :poke-eye:
 
Fido
 
Reply Sat 2 Aug, 2008 02:28 pm
@Critz,
Everyone cares how we see god, and no one cares how god sees us. Doesn't that fact tell who the boss is?
 
Richardgrant
 
Reply Sat 2 Aug, 2008 02:36 pm
@Fido,
The reason God has not given me all the answers is that I am not ready, I can only awaken to that which I am ready. since I have discovered the answers are within my ownself, my awakening has been very rapid indeed.
 
Fido
 
Reply Sat 2 Aug, 2008 03:27 pm
@Richardgrant,
Richardgrant wrote:
The reason God has not given me all the answers is that I am not ready, I can only awaken to that which I am ready. since I have discovered the answers are within my ownself, my awakening has been very rapid indeed.

How nice of God, to short you on all the answers, but to give you the answer to why you are short of answers. That old God is a wise crack and a half. My guess is that you have hit the snooze control once too often, and now you are dreaming you are awake. What say you?
 
Richardgrant
 
Reply Sat 2 Aug, 2008 03:45 pm
@Fido,
No I have awakened to the dream
 
Holiday20310401
 
Reply Sat 2 Aug, 2008 07:15 pm
@Vasska,
Vasska wrote:


Anyhow, depending how I see God, he'd be one of those members to cause chaos and dismay in a forum, and then leave. Never to be seen again.


God is linear, so its essence repents his potential to the philosophy forum. But I guess you'd be right if we made fun of this and said God could cause chaos.

And I suppose if God was Mind ... :drinking:.... sorry I have a hard time believing that load of :tounge:... then we create chaos as we create order, they go hand in hand somehow and I can't see them being opposites, quite.


The reason why god hasn't given me all the answers is because we aren't ready... Laughing... :drinking:... Laughing... :nonooo:, the reason why God hasn't given all the answers is because


  1. God is dead, as Boagie mentions a lot
  2. Omnipotence invalidates causality thus impossible to have potential
  3. we'll never be ready
  4. we can't transcend to be ready, lol, to believe that I'd have to :drinking:
  5. the God you probably percieve is not of a quantum nature, meaning that God is not the glue, or actual dimension of the actual cosmos, therefore carrying out infinite answers is even beyond it.
  6. If God is mind, well, even humanity being immortal(however that works), we strive for perfection without reaching it and that is how we stay sane to a degree, thus God's potential on us would be insane.
  7. But I'm sure your view is that of pure benevolence, morality, etc.; which isn't absolute so no answers can be obtained from your God.
  8. So the Mind being God is limited, therefore it is not a matter of when answers can be obtained to everything, it is the fact that we can't!
  9. You get the idea. Laughing
 
Holiday20310401
 
Reply Sat 2 Aug, 2008 10:55 pm
@Richardgrant,
If God was here he'd (it'd) declare a toast to that.:a-ok:

[CENTER]:drinking: Laughing
[/CENTER]
 
Vasska
 
Reply Sun 3 Aug, 2008 06:06 am
@Holiday20310401,
Holiday20310401 wrote:
God is linear, so its essence repents his potential to the philosophy forum. But I guess you'd be right if we made fun of this and said God could cause chaos.

God already is chaos for everyone talks about the same god differently.
 
Holiday20310401
 
Reply Sun 3 Aug, 2008 08:58 am
@Vasska,
Yes but in everyone's own mind it is linear. There is only one God- Socrato. lol. (it's like quoting a great philosopher or something, the irony):rolleyes:

And we'll never have a consensus with the truth when dealing with paradoxes, so the sane person would view God linearly rather than try to force his/her notions of God upon other people.:a-ok:
 
eternalstudent2
 
Reply Sun 3 Aug, 2008 09:26 am
@Holiday20310401,
What if God showed up on this forum? A very interesting thought experiment. I'm going to assume that this thought experiment subsumes the following hypothetical stipulations (mostly consistent with Holiday203etc's original stipulations):

1.) God really does exist, and in fact does possess all of the "omni" qualities. And likewise, we have verified that this really is God. God, being omnipotent and omniscient, understands our language and is willing to answer our questions via this forum.

2.) The rest of the world finds out about God answering questions on this forum, and somehow the forum withstands the technical challenges (through a modern miracle of bandwidth expansion and server multiplication, like that bit about loaves and fishes?).

3.) God answers honestly and (knowing us better than we know ourselves) provides the best possible answers to all of our questions, and is quite patient and willing to entertain them multiple times, given our imperfections.

4.) But we remain imperfect, and we still disagree amongst ourselves as to what God has said to us about various issues. In our disagreements, we often agree to go to the forum and ask God for clarification, and God graciously responds. In some instances we agree that the issue is settled, and with other issues we continue to disagree, perhaps returning to the forum multiple times to discuss increasingly minute points with God.

Given all of this, the world of humankind would be in for some major changes.

First off, Dawkins, Dennett, Harris and Hitchens would be in for a drop-off in book sales. Ditto for many theologians who specialize in issues that God finally settles on the forum. (philosophyforum.com, THE LAST WORD). And the little cottage industry that formed around historical Jesus research goes bust, since God finally tells us what really happened regarding the man from first century Galilee. Islam may be in for some surprises too regarding Muhammad. Ditto for the Jews (and Christians and Muslims) regarding Abraham and Moses.

So, the major religions are all in for a shock; every one of them is going to be wrong about something. Also, the thinkers of the world would have a lot less work to do. We'd finally settle the question regarding God's existence, a huge vexing question from time immemorial. We'd know if God had any afterlife plans for us, whether our conscious awareness does or doesn't transcend death (i.e., whether we had "immortal souls"). We'd know if God cared or not about our morals and ethical behavior. We'd know if there is any transcendent advantage to disciplined moral behavior or not. We'd know if pain and suffering has any purpose or is just a random side-effect. We'd know if God cared a whit about our prayers and worshipping rituals, and if it gave us any long-term advantages, including the possibility or not of conscious life transcending the body's death. We'd have a lot less need for the concept of "faith" and "belief". The atheists and agnostics would have to come around to the new reality.

My question is: would we be ready for all this? (Same question if it turned out the other way: somehow, science finally provides an air-tight case that no God can exist, that we have detected through our scientific measuring devices all that exists, PERIOD.) Would we be able to soak up all of God's ultimate wisdom and get in full synch with God? (Or get in-synch with a Godless universe?) Or would we look at it as a new and final set of survival and pleasure-maximization rules and principles, and adapt ourselves to the game, like children who are told now to play rugby instead of American football or whatnot. And perhaps we all know how to be stars in this new game, and we are all approaching flawless play in it. It all becomes increasingly rote, just a random variation here or there to keep us awake. Someone wins, someone loses, so what -- always the next game.

The God question has caused a lot of war and suffering on this planet. If that question was settled, holy violence could all be dispensed with over time, as God kept on answering our questions until we all agreed that wars, terrorism and other forms of violence and hubris in support of theistic notions was wrong. (Or let's hope that God would take that position! But then again, if God said 'I don't give a whit what any of you believe, no one of you is any more wrong or right', that might also take the air out of the fanaticism balloon.) So one could imagine many good outcomes under this thought experiment.

But there would also be some bad things -- such as the end of philosophy, for the most part. All that would be left would be some occasional disagreements among thinking people, who then go on this site and get God to settle the issue. Perhaps the issue goes on for a year or two, perhaps some articles or books are written on it, but through repeated inquiries, God finally settles the question to everyone's satisfaction. Including questions regarding free will, justice, political governance systems, the nature of randomness versus order, abortion, the ten commandments, etc. After a while, the need for critical books, articles and discussions would diminish. Philosophy professors have to go into computer software development. It would be somewhat like that article and follow-up book by Francis Fukuyama on "The End of History" (which certainly turned out to be a bit premature!).

Going further into the future over many generations, perhaps the need for critical thinking on the highest levels diminishes so much that the art of it, and eventually even the genetic factors that support it, are lost. Of course, there is still the need to combat new germs, old and new diseases, problems regarding resource depletion and natural disasters, new computer technologies, etc. I will assume that God will not give us any hints on the forum with regard to curing cancer and how to accomplish quantum computing. But on the philosophical and theological level -- not much left to do.

Perhaps this supports Holiday203etc's intuition about this: When I thought about this I came to the conclusion that God's moral perfection keeps God from showing any experiential mingling with humanity. (that is, if God exists).

So -- do you take our world of theistic indeterminacy, terrorism and many other horrors in return for the intellectual challenges that it raises? Or do you take the more peaceful, sedate and probably uninteresting world that results once God comes on this forum? Or, perhaps this is some Faustian game show, with an alternate offer of what lies behind door number 3?

Jim G.

An Eternal Student Of / For Life
 
NeitherExtreme
 
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2008 07:23 pm
@eternalstudent2,
I think if God joined the forum He'd have a boring name like "GregoryB.", and no one would know who He was. He would most often give answers that only make sense to those who question themselves, or He'd simply reply with another question. He'd also probably make some people angry. And the rare person who wanders in here looking for help and compassion would find Him to be just what they need.

Just my thoughts... Good question by the way.
 
Fido
 
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2008 07:44 pm
@NeitherExtreme,
I don't know about God, but Jesus was pretty good about taking people beyond their anger; but when he stood between the priests and their loot, they went beyond anger pdq. Geezus; I wonder what our priests would do?
 
Ennui phil
 
Reply Fri 10 Oct, 2008 09:28 pm
@Holiday20310401,
If God is so intellectual that he can even switch on the computer and surf the Internet,and subsequently register at the forum,it would be a nirvana.

God doesn't type on the keyboard,as he aren't acquainted with other peculiar things except He himself,and the things cited inside the Bible.If God do come back to Earth,someone should be ordained to teach the God about computing.But is that feasible?
 
TickTockMan
 
Reply Fri 10 Oct, 2008 11:07 pm
@de Silentio,
de Silentio;20618 wrote:
If God were a member of this forum, the forum would totally change face. There would be no more room for discussion, since he would just give us all the answers.


I'd have to go along with this, but expand on it to say that if God was a member of this forum, I wouldn't be. If God is omnipotent, all-seeing and all-knowing and everything else God is supposed to be, God would already know every thought I have ever had, every thought I ever will have, everything I have every said and everything I ever will say . . . what would be the point?

But before I deleted my account, I would make a formal apology for all the religious jokes I've made in the past. Just to be safe.

Actually, in all fairness, I think God would have to be a moderator, and the Metatron would have to handle the actual posting.
 
 

 
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