is life a joke?

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de budding
 
Reply Mon 21 Apr, 2008 11:05 am
@boagie,
OP is original post.

And thanks for a very intriguing response. I'm going to go ponder it:).
Dan.
 
Pessimist
 
Reply Sat 3 May, 2008 03:30 pm
@Justin,
Life is only a joke when you are the person on the short end of the stick of it and those with power are usually the ones laughing funnily at those below them.

There is only those with power and those without it.
 
boagie
 
Reply Sat 3 May, 2008 05:00 pm
@Pessimist,
Pessimist wrote:
Life is only a joke when you are the person on the short end of the stick of it and those with power are usually the ones laughing funnily at those below them.
There is only those with power and those without it.


Pessimist,Smile

Difficult to argue with, but hopefully those who are into the game do not stop to ponder the games worth, so much energy expended to take from your fellow man's plate, to state your superiority when you do not know what you are. Still, if you are unhappy, it seems a no brainer, that its better to be rich and unhappy, than poor and unhappy.
 
Wizzy
 
Reply Sun 4 May, 2008 02:09 am
@Pessimist,
Pessimist wrote:
Life is only a joke when you are the person on the short end of the stick of it and those with power are usually the ones laughing funnily at those below them.

There is only those with power and those without it.

Isn't the value of life the same for different people if you strip it to the bone? All this possession, greed, objects and other BS that we have created doesn't mean anything on a deeper level does it?

And power for one thing is the borderline between objects and deeper more important things in life (family, firends, well-beeing etc.) but I assume that you refer to economic and/or political power which to me is just as much humanly made as the machine I'm writing on now.

While I'll agree that there's one type of power that matters, that one power isn't something that can be changed and comes in any shape and form. I'd like to call it Personal Power as it's the kind of power that some people posses where people around them just simply seems to fall in line behind them and follow their orders. They could also be hated but then have the will to do whatever to get to their goal, if they fail or die trying is irrelivent really..
 
GoshisDead
 
Reply Mon 5 May, 2008 04:23 pm
@Nitish,
Bergson would say that humor is found when the expected doesn't happen.
Quote:

Life or human existence has no real meaning or purpose because human existence occurred out of a random chance in nature, and anything that exists by chance has no intended purpose.
Life has no meaning, but as humans we try to associate a meaning or purpose so we can justify our existence.


So either life has no meaning therfore there are no expectations and no possibility for a joke
Or
We try to give meaning to life and our romantic ideals of what should be are not fulfilled so it would be a joke.
It all depends on whether you expect anything out of life or not
 
Pessimist
 
Reply Tue 6 May, 2008 11:14 am
@boagie,
boagie wrote:
Pessimist,Smile

Difficult to argue with, but hopefully those who are into the game do not stop to ponder the games worth, so much energy expended to take from your fellow man's plate, to state your superiority when you do not know what you are. Still, if you are unhappy, it seems a no brainer, that its better to be rich and unhappy, than poor and unhappy.


I'm one of those people who spends little time thinking about others mostly because noone thinks about me.

If noone bothers to care about myself I see no reason in caring about others.

I'm the type a person who sees no value or worth to the lives of other people.

Anymore I just look at people as biological machines made out of flesh with organs inside them guided by a bunch of electrons and various particles. Only my own success is what I care about.

Wizzy wrote:
Isn't the value of life the same for different people if you strip it to the bone? All this possession, greed, objects and other BS that we have created doesn't mean anything on a deeper level does it?

And power for one thing is the borderline between objects and deeper more important things in life (family, firends, well-beeing etc.) but I assume that you refer to economic and/or political power which to me is just as much humanly made as the machine I'm writing on now.

While I'll agree that there's one type of power that matters, that one power isn't something that can be changed and comes in any shape and form. I'd like to call it Personal Power as it's the kind of power that some people posses where people around them just simply seems to fall in line behind them and follow their orders. They could also be hated but then have the will to do whatever to get to their goal, if they fail or die trying is irrelivent really..


Quote:
Isn't the value of life the same for different people if you strip it to the bone? All this possession, greed, objects and other BS that we have created doesn't mean anything on a deeper level does it?
Death is the great equalizer.

In a coroners office were all just bodies of flesh and organs.

In the end that is all we are.

Quote:
And power for one thing is the borderline between objects and deeper more important things in life (family, firends, well-beeing etc.) but I assume that you refer to economic and/or political power which to me is just as much humanly made as the machine I'm writing on now.
Power to me is domination and conquest.

I like all the forms of power personally however you wish to call them.

As a hedonist I find pleasure in all of them.
 
Wizzy
 
Reply Tue 6 May, 2008 11:44 am
@Pessimist,
Pessimist wrote:

Death is the great equalizer.

In a coroners office were all just bodies of flesh and organs.

In the end that is all we are.

Yes I agree with you, but this thread isn't about death now is it? It's about life, and pretty much the meaning of life and/or the quality of life isn't it?

Pessimist wrote:
Power to me is domination and conquest.

I like all the forms of power personally however you wish to call them.

As a hedonist I find pleasure in all of them.

Once again I agree with you, I'm a power-hungry person if there is any, definently, but for instance political power is useless without the personal power isn't it?

For example:
If the dictator of any nation goes to war with another nation and wins, he conquer them and dominate them to his pleasing doesn't he?
But say that his highest general, the one that he turns to for battle plans etc. have the loyalty of the soldiers, not the dictator himself, doesn't the general have power over the dictator since he can just start a coup if he wish for it and conquer the dictator together with his newfound land?


If you have the personal power, and loyal people around you together with the inteligence and knowledge needed to lead them to greatness, life is yours for the taking.

If you have personal power, and loyal people around you but lack the inteligence and knowledge needed to lead them to greatness, you will fail trying.

If you have loyal people around you together with the inteligence and knowledge needed to lead them to greatness, but lack the personal power, they will debate and argue with every decition you make and will probably choose a different leader, making those loyal people into dissloyal people.

If you lack it all, you don't have a saying in anything do you?

*Edit

Pessimist wrote:
I'm one of those people who spends little time thinking about others mostly because noone thinks about me.

If noone bothers to care about myself I see no reason in caring about others.

I'm the type a person who sees no value or worth to the lives of others people.

Anymore I just look at people as biological machines made out of flesh with organs inside them guided by a bunch of electrons and various particles. Only my own success is what I care about.

The reason why you should care about other people is to make them care about you, nomather what you think, you need other people, followers if you will, to make use of any type of power in a larger scale. Violent power over a few induvidual is useless as it's just a matter of time before those people you have violent power over group together just because you have that power.

And by saying that "who sees no value or worth to the lives of others" you are direcly saying that life is worthless, meaning that your life is also worthless, just so you know. You can fool yourself all you want but the truth is that we are all the same, you, your mother, your neighbour, that poor kid in india, we are all worth the same as anybody els. Be it the president or be it the gangbanger, we are worth as much as the spectator values an other life, himself too. You saying that you don't value other peoples lives, means that you value your own life as much.
 
Pessimist
 
Reply Tue 6 May, 2008 12:35 pm
@Wizzy,
Wizzy wrote:
Yes I agree with you, but this thread isn't about death now is it? It's about life, and pretty much the meaning of life and/or the quality of life isn't it?


Once again I agree with you, I'm a power-hungry person if there is any, definently, but for instance political power is useless without the personal power isn't it?

For example:
If the dictator of any nation goes to war with another nation and wins, he conquer them and dominate them to his pleasing doesn't he?
But say that his highest general, the one that he turns to for battle plans etc. have the loyalty of the soldiers, not the dictator himself, doesn't the general have power over the dictator since he can just start a coup if he wish for it and conquer the dictator together with his newfound land?


If you have the personal power, and loyal people around you together with the inteligence and knowledge needed to lead them to greatness, life is yours for the taking.

If you have personal power, and loyal people around you but lack the inteligence and knowledge needed to lead them to greatness, you will fail trying.

If you have loyal people around you together with the inteligence and knowledge needed to lead them to greatness, but lack the personal power, they will debate and argue with every decition you make and will probably choose a different leader, making those loyal people into dissloyal people.

If you lack it all, you don't have a saying in anything do you?

*Edit


The reason why you should care about other people is to make them care about you, nomather what you think, you need other people, followers if you will, to make use of any type of power in a larger scale. Violent power over a few induvidual is useless as it's just a matter of time before those people you have violent power over group together just because you have that power.

And by saying that "who sees no value or worth to the lives of others" you are direcly saying that life is worthless, meaning that your life is also worthless, just so you know. You can fool yourself all you want but the truth is that we are all the same, you, your mother, your neighbour, that poor kid in india, we are all worth the same as anybody els. Be it the president or be it the gangbanger, we are worth as much as the spectator values an other life, himself too. You saying that you don't value other peoples lives, means that you value your own life as much.




Quote:
The reason why you should care about other people is to make them care about you, nomather what you think, you need other people, followers if you will, to make use of any type of power in a larger scale. Violent power over a few induvidual is useless as it's just a matter of time before those people you have violent power over group together just because you have that power.


I'm one of those people who only seeks power through necessity.

I like only that which I can have direct control over.

I don't seek too much power mostly because I don't like the responsibility involved.

( Likes only being responsible for himself.)

I hope this post makes sense.


Quote:
And by saying that "who sees no value or worth to the lives of others" you are direcly saying that life is worthless, meaning that your life is also worthless, just so you know.


In the greater existence of things I do know my life is worthless along with everyone elses but I'm under the impression that since I'm here I might as well have a little bit of fun with it.

Quote:
You can fool yourself all you want but the truth is that we are all the same, you, your mother, your neighbour, that poor kid in india, we are all worth the same as anybody els.


We might be under the same circumstance but we are not equal.

Quote:
You saying that you don't value other peoples lives, means that you value your own life as much.


One can know that their lives is worthless but still give it some sort of value nonetheless at the same time.

Does it make sense? Probally not but then again nothing makes entire sense in this world anyways.

Quote:

Yes I agree with you, but this thread isn't about death now is it? It's about life, and pretty much the meaning of life and/or the quality of life isn't it?


Life is pretty sadistic, funny and ironic atleast in my mind it is.

Quote:

Once again I agree with you, I'm a power-hungry person if there is any, definently, but for instance political power is useless without the personal power isn't it?


Sure.

Quote:

If you have the personal power, and loyal people around you together with the inteligence and knowledge needed to lead them to greatness, life is yours for the taking.


I don't want to lead others. I find other people to be too bothersome.

The only time I like others is what I can take from them for myself or what they can do for me through utilizing.

Quote:

If you have personal power, and loyal people around you but lack the inteligence and knowledge needed to lead them to greatness, you will fail trying.



I have plenty of personal power I just lack the sort of weak civilized humbleness to contend with other people's morality and demands.

I also don't meet the status quo or standards of what we call civilized society.

I despise compromises and self sacrifices especially when they are not mutual.

Of course I have a contingency plan to get around all of this but I'm afraid it is to extreme for fragile ears here to speak of.

Quote:

If you have loyal people around you together with the inteligence and knowledge needed to lead them to greatness, but lack the personal power, they will debate and argue with every decition you make and will probably choose a different leader, making those loyal people into dissloyal people.


I'm a pretty isolative solitary figure so I really don't have alot going on in the sense of what you are speaking about.

Quote:

If you lack it all, you don't have a saying in anything do you?


On the contrary what I lack I can take through bloodshed and violence.

There are always options in the world although they may not be ideal.........

Where there is a will there is a way.
 
Justin
 
Reply Tue 6 May, 2008 12:35 pm
@Pessimist,
Well Said Wizzy! - whoot whoot!

Pessimist wrote:
I'm one of those people who spends little time thinking about others mostly because noone thinks about me.

Why would they. Like seeks out like and misery loves company.

Pessimist wrote:
If noone bothers to care about myself I see no reason in caring about others.

I'm the type a person who sees no value or worth to the lives of others people.

I'm not sure how old you are but it's not rocket science to know and the being cared about is in direct relation to the care you've shown about yourself and about others. This is a vicious cycle that mankind doesn't seem to grasp. If you want other to care about you, it's time you start caring about others. If you want to receive, you must first be willing to give. In life, you will only get out of it what you have put into it. The same goes for business and anything else for that matter.

As far as not seeing value in the lives of others, well that's only because you don't see the value within yourself. Outside is merely a reflection of whats on the inside. Maybe it's time you consider others... when it all comes down to it, we're one of the same, (a chip off the old block). When you hurt someone else, you hurt yourself. When you love someone else you are loving yourself and to know this you'd have to experience it.

Pessimist wrote:
Anymore I just look at people as biological machines made out of flesh with organs inside them guided by a bunch of electrons and various particles. Only my own success is what I care about.

If people were actually body, flesh and particles, you'd be in business. But we're not. We're energy and spirit so is depends on how you identify yourself.

As far as success, that's another subject but I can tell you with certainty that true success is measured by the success you have given to others. If you only care about your success... in the manner in which you speak... you'll never see it. You will NEVER reach any level of success without those close ascending with you.

Success means different things to different people as well. True success is a legacy that will live long after you are gone. The other success is just monetary. But Success is something you'll find when you are willing to give it to others.

Pessimist wrote:
Death is the great equalizer.

In a coroners office were all just bodies of flesh and organs.

In the end that is all we are.

Power to me is domination and conquest.

I like all the forms of power personally however you wish to call them.

As a hedonist I find pleasure in all of them.

You may speak of pleasure but your energy is that of great pain. Think about some of these things you are saying. Take some time to meditate within yourself and try to see the light within the darkness because it's there.

I was a lot like you at one time in my life. Built walls around my ego and my life to protect a very weak and frail being that embraced hatred for my fellow man. I loved power and enjoyed some financial success as well but it didn't take long to see that the success I was seeking was not success at all. Being mean and not caring about others came back to haunt me like a boomerang. It's a learning experience that I had to experience to allow myself to go through the pain of change.

In life, what you receive is in direct correlation to what you give. This applies to everything! If you want to receive love, you must first learn to give it.

Pessimist wrote:
I like only that which I can have direct control over only.

Hate to break it to you but the only thing you have direct control over is your perception and your perception will effect everything you do. Outside of your perception you have control over NOTHING!
 
Pessimist
 
Reply Tue 6 May, 2008 12:54 pm
@Justin,
Justin wrote:
Well Said Wizzy! - whoot whoot!


Why would they. Like seeks out like and misery loves company.


I'm not sure how old you are but it's not rocket science to know and the being cared about is in direct relation to the care you've shown about yourself and about others. This is a vicious cycle that mankind doesn't seem to grasp. If you want other to care about you, it's time you start caring about others. If you want to receive, you must first be willing to give. In life, you will only get out of it what you have put into it. The same goes for business and anything else for that matter.

As far as not seeing value in the lives of others, well that's only because you don't see the value within yourself. Outside is merely a reflection of whats on the inside. Maybe it's time you consider others... when it all comes down to it, we're one of the same, (a chip off the old block). When you hurt someone else, you hurt yourself. When you love someone else you are loving yourself and to know this you'd have to experience it.


If people were actually body, flesh and particles, you'd be in business. But we're not. We're energy and spirit so is depends on how you identify yourself.

As far as success, that's another subject but I can tell you with certainty that true success is measured by the success you have given to others. If you only care about your success... in the manner in which you speak... you'll never see it. You will NEVER reach any level of success without those close ascending with you.

Success means different things to different people as well. True success is a legacy that will live long after you are gone. The other success is just monetary. But Success is something you'll find when you are willing to give it to others.


You may speak of pleasure but your energy is that of great pain. Think about some of these things you are saying. Take some time to meditate within yourself and try to see the light within the darkness because it's there.

I was a lot like you at one time in my life. Built walls around my ego and my life to protect a very weak and frail being that embraced hatred for my fellow man. I loved power and enjoyed some financial success as well but it didn't take long to see that the success I was seeking was not success at all. Being mean and not caring about others came back to haunt me like a boomerang. It's a learning experience that I had to experience to allow myself to go through the pain of change.

In life, what you receive is in direct correlation to what you give. This applies to everything! If you want to receive love, you must first learn to give it.


Hate to break it to you but the only thing you have direct control over is your perception and your perception will effect everything you do. Outside of your perception you have control over NOTHING!


Quote:


Why would they. Like seeks out like and misery loves company.


You assume that I have had the same mentality throughout my entire life.

On the contrary I used to be a idealist myself all ready to fight the "good" fight until reality through me off my feet in agony only to open up my eyes to the indifferent world that we live in.

Quote:
I'm not sure how old you are


I'm in my 20's. With this amount of knowledge are you now going to play the age card in discrediting me?

Quote:

If you want other to care about you, it's time you start caring about others.


You assume that I haven't already tried.

Quote:

If you want to receive, you must first be willing to give.


You assume that I haven't already tried.

What exactly do you say to a man who has gave everything to the point where he has nothing left? I wonder............

Quote:

In life, you will only get out of it what you have put into it.


There are no guarantees. Don't bother me with lies or mythological narratives.

Quote:


As far as not seeing value in the lives of others, well that's only because you don't see the value within yourself.


Wow you seem to know alot about me.

Quite amazing since I have only been a member of this website for only a couple of days.

Quote:

Maybe it's time you consider others... when it all comes down to it, we're one of the same, (a chip off the old block).


You assume that I haven't.

Spare me the psycho babble political correctness. I'm immune.

Quote:

When you hurt someone else, you hurt yourself.


I wonder what a soldier thinks about that when he pulls the trigger of a rifle pointed at another person's head.

Surely he is not hurt since the gun is point away from himself and by extinguishing his enemy the person he shoots at is neutralized in death where no harm can come to himself.

More useless psycho babble statements. No surprise. Typical response.

Quote:
When you love someone else you are loving yourself and to know this you'd have to experience it.


What is love beyond euphoric chemicals of the brain?

Quote:

If people were actually body, flesh and particles, you'd be in business. But we're not. We're energy and spirit so is depends on how you identify yourself.


We are recyclable bodies of flesh and organs which operates as energenic combustion for movement or motion.

Look at the definition of recyclable.

Recyclable implies a certain expendability.

What is spirit? Didn't such archaic symbols die with religion?

God is dead and all that remains is his corpse which government halls decorate themselves in.

Quote:

As far as success, that's another subject but I can tell you with certainty that true success is measured by the success you have given to others


Truth? What is truth?

Quote:
If you only care about your success... in the manner in which you speak... you'll never see it. You will NEVER reach any level of success without those close ascending with you.


If one cannot achieve mutuality, cooperation and diplomacy there are other ways of achieving success...........

They are of course not ideal.

Quote:

You may speak of pleasure but your energy is that of great pain.


Perhaps I am in pain but through it I learn alot.

Like all pain it is merely temporary and believe me when I say it I will achieve somthing before I die. Wink

Through my own image of course.

Quote:

Think about some of these things you are saying. Take some time to meditate within yourself and try to see the light within the darkness because it's there.



I have no use for such dualisms.

I embrace creation and destruction as one whole not as being seperate.

Quote:

I was a lot like you at one time in my life. Built walls around my ego and my life to protect a very weak and frail being that embraced hatred for my fellow man.


Unlike you I don't find a need to hide from myself.

I embrace my ego as it gives me power and it tells me alot about myself along with my more deeper instinctual qualities which nature has biologically provided.

I understand the social indifference in this world with all the selfishness that exists instead of idealizing it in denial and I understand people to be purely selfish psychological egotistical creatures.

Quote:

In life, what you receive is in direct correlation to what you give. This applies to everything! If you want to receive love, you must first learn to give it.


Once again there are no guarantees in life.

I have known plenty of old men upon their death beds in agony because they gave so much in their lifetime only to achieve nothing in what they desired in that came to hate themselves from what was their past choices of giving wishing that they could take it all back.

Your romanticism on life is naive.

Quote:

Hate to break it to you but the only thing you have direct control over is your perception and your perception will effect everything you do. Outside of your perception you have control over NOTHING!


What about other examples?

If the government has taught me anything it is that if you threaten enough people with violence, imprisonment or death you can make or control people to do just about anything.

So much for perception being the limiting factor.

What does your idealism I wonder say about that?
 
Wizzy
 
Reply Tue 6 May, 2008 03:32 pm
@Pessimist,
Pessimist wrote:
I'm one of those people who only seeks power through necessity.

I like only that which I can have direct control over.

I don't seek too much power mostly because I don't like the responsibility involved.

( Likes only being responsible for himself.)

I hope this post makes sense.

------

On the contrary what I lack I can take through bloodshed and violence.

There are always options in the world although they may not be ideal.........

Where there is a will there is a way.

You just proved what I'm talking about.
First of all, this is not a debate about material objects and that kind of "quality of life", if you can only see that part of life, you're in the wrong forum buddy.
Second of all, the kind of assets I'm talking about can't be taken by bloodshed and violence, it's personal assets that you either have or you don't, it's personal qualities, and from the "sound" of it, is seems to me that you lack the inteligence (not IQ inteligence, it's been called street-smarts quite alot) and knowledge to lead people to greatness, don't take offence I could easily be wrong, just saying that from the information you give me.
For somebody who loves controll as you say it's fairly wierd to not want responsibility, since beeing in controll automaticly gives you responsibility.. I'm what they call a controll-adict, that I have to be in controll of a situation in order to be comfortable and through that I love responsibility because if I take the responsibility of making the plans, making the effort etc. etc. I'm in controll of the situation.. Don't know how you think, just find it wierd..
You post makes since in the way that I understand what you mean, don't make since in the way that I don't understand how you can think like that..

Pessimist wrote:
In the greater existence of things I do know my life is worthless along with everyone elses but I'm under the impression that since I'm here I might as well have a little bit of fun with it.

------

One can know that their lives is worthless but still give it some sort of value nonetheless at the same time.

Well, yeah but then you have to give everybody els the same value as -even you said- we are all the same post-death meaning that we where the same pre-death too, doesn't it? Not on a economical, power or whatever level but on the deepest level, when you have stripped a person of everything and they stand there before you naked and all the same, aren't we all the same stuff with the same value as the person next to us?
Personally, I think that we can lower our value by one way and one way only and that's by our actions. For instance, Hitlers suicide is probably the only suicide in the history of the planet worth celebrating..

Pessimist wrote:
We might be under the same circumstance but we are not equal.

------

Does it make sense? Probally not but then again nothing makes entire sense in this world anyways.

------

Life is pretty sadistic, funny and ironic atleast in my mind it is.

I would have accepted if you said it the other way around, that 'you might be equal but not under the same circumstances' because, you said it yourself that everybody is the same materia and junk, so the curcumstances between the poor kid in india and the pres. is ofcourse different, but they are still equals...
Everything in this world makes sense, we might just not know how yet, and that's what everybody on this site is trying to figure out isn't it? What the world, this life etc. is, why it is what it is and what it will become.. That's philosophy isn't it?
Life is pretty sadistic, funny and ironic, I agree.

Pessimist wrote:
I don't want to lead others. I find other people to be too bothersome.

The only time I like others is what I can take from them for myself or what they can do for me through utilizing.

------

I have plenty of personal power I just lack the sort of weak civilized humbleness to contend with other people's morality and demands.

I also don't meet the status quo or standards of what we call civilized society.

I despise compromises and self sacrifices especially when they are not mutual.

Of course I have a contingency plan to get around all of this but I'm afraid it is to extreme for fragile ears here to speak of.

------

I'm a pretty isolative solitary figure so I really don't have alot going on in the sense of what you are speaking about.

You must be a lonley person.. And how can you possess personal power if you don't even like people? How can somebody who despies other humans get them to follow him? Even Hitler and Mussolini made compromises man, don't be fooling yourself that you can get around that, it's a huge party of life if not life itself. And I don't belive that somebody can live an entire life on their own without loosing their mind, it just doesn't work. Everybody needs other people if nothing more then just to stay sane, ofcourse, the way you describe yourself you do not function in society which is the werry definition of mental illness..
And taking stuff from other people is one of those actions I talked about lowering the value of your life, why steal when you can create? Open your eyes man..
 
Justin
 
Reply Wed 7 May, 2008 08:39 am
@Pessimist,
Pessimist wrote:
You assume that I have had the same mentality throughout my entire life.

On the contrary I used to be a idealist myself all ready to fight the "good" fight until reality through me off my feet in agony only to open up my eyes to the indifferent world that we live in.

Actually I don't assume anything. I'm in the here and now.

We have a choice on how we perceive the world and that depends on how we look at it. One can look at it and find all the negative things about the world or one can find the positives. Either way, there are both equally outweighing the other. It's an individual choice as to which one chooses to see.

Pessimist wrote:
I'm in my 20's. With this amount of knowledge are you now going to play the age card in discrediting me?
Knowledge? I'm afraid there is a big difference between knowledge and intelligence. Being able to read, remember, recall and repeat is not knowledge at all.

No, not playing the age card, just helps to understand whether these words come from the mouth of a babe or from a knowledgeable understanding and mature adult. Your age is not a discredit nor am I trying to discredit anyone and we shouldn't. If discrediting will be done, we'll do it ourselves... as if the credit really makes a difference in the first place.

Pessimist wrote:
What exactly do you say to a man who has gave everything to the point where he has nothing left? I wonder............

You haven't given enough. As far as nothing left... on the contrary, everything is left.

Pessimist wrote:
Wow you seem to know alot about me. Quite amazing since I have only been a member of this website for only a couple of days.

Don't know a thing about you. All I have is my personal perception based on what you type in the forums. You've painted a picture of yourself in the words that you have spoken and portrayed someone who doesn't value themselves nor anyone else. It's not rocket science again. In order to love someone else or care about someone else, one must first care about themselves. If that doesn't happen first it's not what it may seem to be.

Pessimist wrote:
I wonder what a soldier thinks about that when he pulls the trigger of a rifle pointed at another person's head.

Surely he is not hurt since the gun is point away from himself and by extinguishing his enemy the person he shoots at is neutralized in death where no harm can come to himself.

Are you a soldier? Take into consideration that the soldiers that have killed other human beings have to live the rest of their life with that on their conscience. They come back here to America and many become drunks, some turn to suicide and others are ashamed of what they've done to protect the financial interest of a few governmental leaders. You may not see the pain and agony on the outside but trust me it's there.

Pessimist wrote:
What is love beyond euphoric chemicals of the brain?

If that's how you view it, you are certainly entitled to that believe. This again reverts back to knowledge. Love is an action that causes a reaction. Everything in life is full of actions and reactions. So for a bunch of chemicals of the brain, the action reaction effect is pretty darn strong that it can effect masses.

Pessimist wrote:
What is spirit? Didn't such archaic symbols die with religion?

Spirit has nothing to do with religion. If you were to cut your arm off and throw it across the room, where are you? Are you the arm on the other side of the room? No, your body is not you. Your spirit is. Your energy is you. The body, just like everything in nature has a lifespan and will fold back into the universe through the cycle of balance in nature. Has nothing at all to do with religion. This again goes back into the knowledge department.

Pessimist wrote:
God is dead and all that remains is his corpse which government halls decorate themselves in.

That's one way to look at it. I must have missed the funeral... Crap, everyone missed it. Please let us all know the date, location and cause of the death of God so that we may mourn briefly by his passing. If God is dead and I missed it,... whoa, the guilt.

Pessimist wrote:
Like all pain it is merely temporary and believe me when I say it I will achieve somthing before I die. Wink

Achieve something? is that a question or a statement? Sounds like a wandering in the dark and bouncing off walls. Nothing against you, but most people go through life with blindfolds on. Going wherever life leads them next instead of taking the reins and leading their own life to where they really desire to go.

It's important to define goals, set a target and act out what you want to achieve within your mind and then remind yourself of it everyday while you chop wood and carry water. Once you know where you are going and see the target of whatever achievement of individual desire, it gives one a purpose. - Just ramblings

Pessimist wrote:
Unlike you I don't find a need to hide from myself.

Sorry, I never said anything about hiding from myself. Those words you write above are merely a reflection of your own thoughts because they weren't mine. You may want to look a bit deeper.

Pessimist wrote:
I embrace my ego as it gives me power and it tells me alot about myself along with my more deeper instinctual qualities which nature has biologically provided.

You may think your ego gives you power. That's a misconception and again the difference between knowledge and intellect.

Pessimist wrote:
I understand the social indifference in this world with all the selfishness that exists instead of idealizing it in denial and I understand people to be purely selfish psychological egotistical creatures.

Sure, that sums it up for a great many. On the other side of the coin though there is yet another side of the coin. It's all in how you perceive it. There is always negative and always positive... the difference is what one chooses to recognize and resonate with.

Pessimist wrote:
I have known plenty of old men upon their death beds in agony because they gave so much in their lifetime only to achieve nothing in what they desired in that came to hate themselves from what was their past choices of giving wishing that they could take it all back.

Really? Would have to understand their lifetime more for this statement to carry any weight at all. Because I've known plenty of older men with completely different thoughts than you describe here above. Matter of fact, I've never met an older man on their death bed that came to hate themselves for giving. Of course, I wouldn't surround myself with anyone who hates themselves to begin. Like seeks and attracts like.

Pessimist wrote:
Your romanticism on life is naive.

Naive? OK. That's the first time I've been told that. You may be right though... and naive it can be. I'd rather be naive and enjoy the positive things that life has to offer than to be smart and desolate.

Pessimist wrote:
If the government has taught me anything it is that if you threaten enough people with violence, imprisonment or death you can make or control people to do just about anything.

Oh, that clears a bit up for me now. You are learning from your government on how to treat others? Corrupt governments at that? Another follower may agree but leaders would disagree with your statement... and yes there is a difference. Controlling people is not at all what I see as success nor is it something I personally want any part of. You can get what you want out of others when you learn to love and you'll get much more.

Perception is the limiting factor. One with knowledge understands this wholly. A man places his own ceiling, nobody does it for him. The limitations of man are the limitations he places on himself based solely on his perception. Change your perception and the world will change!

As wizzy was explaining, we are co-dependent on each other. While we may be individual and autonomous creatures we also work and live together as co-dependent creatures. It's when we start to work together that more gets accomplished.

You seem like a decent fellow and I would encourage you to start looking at things in a positive light rather than identifying with everything negatively. It will change your whole perspective and you'll experience the greatest paradigm shift you could ever imagine.
 
Ruthless Logic
 
Reply Wed 7 May, 2008 08:25 pm
@Justin,
Quote: As wizzy was explaining, we are co-dependent on each other. While we may be individual and autonomous creatures we also work and live together as co-dependent creatures. It's when we start to work together that more gets accomplished.

However, upon reading your signature line "By a divine paradox, wherever there is one slave there are two. So in the wonderful reciprocities of being, we can never reach the higher levels until all our fellows ascend with us ", I found myself considering the intellectual truth of the statement, while remaining unbiased from the influence of consistently problematic ideals.
From my empirical view, Human Beings (as well as other living creatures) are utterly singular in their displacement in the Natural World. The inherent diversification of one life from another minimizes risk to the existence of the species, and clearly this is the only priority of the Natural World.
This realization is not controversial, but simply accepted as logical.

I find it interesting how the above understanding is simple, yet we espouse concepts like " No Man is an island "and I find myself considering the possibility that for some individuals, the over-indulgence of idealism, coupled with their own mortality, produces these fantastic concepts that offer zero empirical evidence that they actually function as described or exist. What is disconcerting, is oftentimes the unachievable idealist premise is so convoluted from self-serving parameters, that it simply juxtapose the actual empirical truth.

Justin, while it is obvious that synergy is created when individuals work in a concerted manner and measurable accomplishments increase, the Reality of the Human Model still stands as it is what it is and no amount of intimate interaction will ever allow the merging of two or more individual lives into one. It is not the simplistic view of positive or negative attitudes, but the unequivocal consistency of empirical evidence offered. I personally find exhillarating and enlightening as a Human Being to be able to experience all the emotions and wonderful joys that are involved in relationships (married with children), but still have access to the clarity of my world when I am in the mood for its consideration. My realizations do not invoke personal unsettlement during the reconciliation process, on the contrary, the ability to experience the totality of life provides the great value of contentment.
 
Arouet
 
Reply Wed 7 May, 2008 08:58 pm
@Nitish,
Though I've only skimmed this thread, I thought I'd present my own personal view, which is rather hedonistic at its roots: No, life isn't meaningless. Life has no inherent meaning, but that doesn't mean it has no capacity for meaning. Everyone is responsible for finding their own meaning in life, if they want it to be meaningful. That isn't to say no one can or should help them, but at the core of it it's a completely personal issue. My meaning for life is twofold: enjoying myself and making life better for others. And while I hate to admit it, it's often in that order. If you can't find meaning in life, I and many others would be glad to help you seek a meaning for yourself...if you require an intrinsic meaning, I really have nothing for you.
 
Fido
 
Reply Fri 9 May, 2008 10:23 pm
@Nitish,
Nitish wrote:
whatever happens in our life is not important in the cosmic level.whatever happens in your life the universe is going to be much the same.
Life has no meaning

  • Life or human existence has no real meaning or purpose because human existence occurred out of a random chance in nature, and anything that exists by chance has no intended purpose.
  • Life has no meaning, but as humans we try to associate a meaning or purpose so we can justify our existence.
  • There is no point in life, and that is exactly what makes it so special.
  • Life is a ***** and then you die.
  • Life sucks and in the end you die.
we are not created for any grander purpose than the the ants,flies and mosquitoes.do u agree with me?

Since we define the purpose, the insects do not qualify. Yet, I do believe life is a joke; This one: Do you know how to keep from losing your hair? Sew a name tag inside your toupe. The existential meaning to this is that, while life is a series of losses, as Shakespeare said: Sans everything... so our purpose is to change what we can for the better, and accept all else. We cannot retrieve all that life will take from us, but we can give what we have in life to others, much as life was given to us; and life is all the same, whether one is a bug or buggy. There is only one life no matter how many beings experience it, so make it good.
 
Fido
 
Reply Fri 9 May, 2008 10:30 pm
@Arouet,
Arouet wrote:
Though I've only skimmed this thread, I thought I'd present my own personal view, which is rather hedonistic at its roots: No, life isn't meaningless. Life has no inherent meaning, but that doesn't mean it has no capacity for meaning. Everyone is responsible for finding their own meaning in life, if they want it to be meaningful. That isn't to say no one can or should help them, but at the core of it it's a completely personal issue. My meaning for life is twofold: enjoying myself and making life better for others. And while I hate to admit it, it's often in that order. If you can't find meaning in life, I and many others would be glad to help you seek a meaning for yourself...if you require an intrinsic meaning, I really have nothing for you.

Life is all meaning. There is nothing in life that people find meaningful that is not meaningful by its effect on life. Life is everything; the giver of all meaning. You are fortunate enough to believe there is something other than life from which perch you can peek at life slowly slipping away with casual disdain. And comment: It is meaningless. Go to the hospital, and look at old folks choking out their last breaths, and take their face masks off them, and see if they will agree that life is meaningless. All is meaningless, for all is what people will surrender to have a moment more of life.
 
yebiga
 
Reply Wed 14 May, 2008 02:55 am
@Justin,
An honest thread.
Whilst we can and even must create a purpose for life, objectively, there is none. I can understand why many respondents find it difficult to acknowledge the purposelessness of life. It seems to me much of our lives is avoiding the starkness of this futility.

Our culture is horrified by all forms of death: accidental, old age, disease, etc. One of the central themes in our ubiquitous consumer culture is the illusion that you can purchase immortality. Likewise, is not the liturgy of all religion designed to assuage our fear of futility and death. Our culture will pretty much do and invent any nonsense to avoid acknowledging futility.

But, I wonder whether there is not a great freedom or even joy to be had from a deep acceptance of futility. Imagine it! If our culture could embrace the very marrow of futility, might life be more invigorating; guilt and chastisements lose their power. Our own subjective purposes gain validation.

I suspect there is more to fear from our current denial. But, as I say, I can understand the discomfort.
 
ian23
 
Reply Wed 28 May, 2008 01:05 am
@Nitish,
Nitish wrote:
whatever happens in our life is not important in the cosmic level.whatever happens in your life the universe is going to be much the same.
Life has no meaning

  • Life or human existence has no real meaning or purpose because human existence occurred out of a random chance in nature, and anything that exists by chance has no intended purpose.
  • Life has no meaning, but as humans we try to associate a meaning or purpose so we can justify our existence.
  • There is no point in life, and that is exactly what makes it so special.
  • Life is a ***** and then you die.
  • Life sucks and in the end you die.

we are not created for any grander purpose than the the ants,flies and mosquitoes.do u agree with me?


life has meaning... when you have someone who loves you... :p
 
boagie
 
Reply Wed 28 May, 2008 08:18 am
@ian23,
ian23 wrote:
life has meaning... when you have someone who loves you... :p


ian,Smile

Is it not a wonder that from this meaningless genesis an organism arises that can create its own meaning, as the context of its life. Where there is no value found, it is because you did not bestow value upon it.
 
Richardgrant
 
Reply Thu 29 May, 2008 03:59 pm
@Nitish,
I have found my lifes purpose, that is. Find God, know God, and be God. As I awaken to the dream and realize Heaven is within me, this is where God is, having found God, I now am getting to know who I Am,which is to be as ONE with God
It has been a long journey for me of wholly sensing without knowing, to wholly knowing without sensing. Richard
 
 

 
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