concerned brother

Thorwald--I'm impressed that you're impressed!

Monger, I knew these answers--Like I said, I was struck dumn and couldn't. This is called conviction!

As far as being under the law--In the days before the Law, when men lived by faith--they still understood God's abhorrence of sexual sin.

Abraham offered Sarah to Pharaoh, pretending that she was just his sister. Pharaoh saw them pashing and realised they were married and was angry with Abraham as Abraham's God was angry about it!

Quote:

Gen 12:17 And the LORD plagued Pharaoh and his house with great plagues because of Sarai Abram's wife.

Gen 12:18 And Pharaoh called Abram, and said, What [is] this [that] thou hast done unto me? why didst thou not tell me that she [was] thy wife?

Gen 12:19 Why saidst thou, She [is] my sister? so I might have taken her to me to wife: now therefore behold thy wife, take [her], and go thy way.

Gen 12:20 And Pharaoh commanded [his] men concerning him: and they sent him away, and his wife, and all that he had.

Then Isaac (Abraham's son) did a similar thing to with similar results.

Quote:

Gen 26:6 And Isaac dwelt in Gerar:

Gen 26:7 And the men of the place asked [him] of his wife; and he said, She [is] my sister: for he feared to say, [She is] my wife; lest, [said he], the men of the place should kill me for Rebekah; because she [was] fair to look upon.

Gen 26:8 And it came to pass, when he had been there a long time, that Abimelech king of the Philistines looked out at a window, and saw, and, behold, Isaac [was] sporting with Rebekah his wife.

Gen 26:9 And Abimelech called Isaac, and said, Behold, of a surety she [is] thy wife: and how saidst thou, She [is] my sister? And Isaac said unto him, Because I said, Lest I die for her.

Gen 26:10 And Abimelech said, What [is] this thou hast done unto us? one of the people might lightly have lien with thy wife, and thou shouldest have brought guiltiness upon us.

Gen 26:11 And Abimelech charged all [his] people, saying, He that toucheth this man or his wife shall surely be put to death.

Joseph--of the many coloured coat fame) was approached by Potiphar's wife for sex, Joseph resisted her because he knew that it was a sin against his God.

Quote:

Gen 39:7 And it came to pass after these things, that his master's wife cast her eyes upon Joseph; and she said, Lie with me.

Gen 39:8 But he refused, and said unto his master's wife, Behold, my master wotteth not what [is] with me in the house, and he hath committed all that he hath to my hand;

Gen 39:9 [There is] none greater in this house than I; neither hath he kept back any thing from me but thee, because thou [art] his wife: how then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God?

Gen 39:10 And it came to pass, as she spake to Joseph day by day, that he hearkened not unto her, to lie by her, [or] to be with her.

ALL these incidents happened at a time when there was no law forbidding such--yet from the bible we see that all these knew that such behaviour was a sin against God.

It continued as a sin under the law:

Quote:

Exd 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.

Jesus even went further:

Quote:

Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

And the Apostles passed on this to the gentiles who were becoming believers:

Quote:

Act 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and [from] fornication, and [from] things strangled, and [from] blood.
Act 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
Act 21:25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written [and] concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from [things] offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

this is what i sent to someone who randomly emailed me and was talking to me about their issues. i thought it was a good scripture to use as a foundation against berg.

Lev. 18:1 The LORD said to Moses, 2"Speak to the Israelites and say to them: `I am the LORD your God. 3You must not do as they do in Egypt, where you used to live, and you must not do as they do in the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you. Do not follow their practices. 4You must obey my laws and be careful to follow my decrees. I am the LORD your God. 5Keep my decrees and laws, for the man who obeys them will live by them. I am the LORD.
6"`No one is to approach any close relative to have sexual relations. I am the LORD.
7"`Do not dishonor your father by having sexual relations with your mother. She is your mother; do not have relations with her.
8"`Do not have sexual relations with your father's wife; that would dishonor your father.
9"`Do not have sexual relations with your sister, either your father's daughter or your mother's daughter, whether she was born in the same home or elsewhere.
10"`Do not have sexual relations with your son's daughter or your daughter's daughter; that would dishonor you.
11"`Do not have sexual relations with the daughter of your father's wife, born to your father; she is your sister.
12"`Do not have sexual relations with your father's sister; she is your father's close relative.
13"`Do not have sexual relations with your mother's sister, because she is your mother's close relative.
14"`Do not dishonor your father's brother by approaching his wife to have sexual relations; she is your aunt.
15"`Do not have sexual relations with your daughter-in-law. She is your son's wife; do not have relations with her.
16"`Do not have sexual relations with your brother's wife; that would dishonor your brother.
17"`Do not have sexual relations with both a woman and her daughter. Do not have sexual relations with either her son's daughter or her daughter's daughter; they are her close relatives. That is wickedness.
18"`Do not take your wife's sister as a rival wife and have sexual relations with her while your wife is living.
19"`Do not approach a woman to have sexual relations during the uncleanness of her monthly period.
20"`Do not have sexual relations with your neighbor's wife and defile yourself with her.
21"`Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed to Molech, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the LORD.

Anonymous wrote:

this is what i sent to someone who randomly emailed me and was talking to me about their issues. i thought it was a good scripture to use as a foundation against berg.

Lev. 18:1 The LORD said to Moses, 2"Speak to the Israelites and say to them: `I am the LORD your God. 3You must not do as they do in Egypt, where you used to live, and you must not do as they do in the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you. Do not follow their practices. 4You must obey my laws and be careful to follow my decrees. I am the LORD your God. 5Keep my decrees and laws, for the man who obeys them will live by them. I am the LORD.
6"`No one is to approach any close relative to have sexual relations. I am the LORD.
7"`Do not dishonor your father by having sexual relations with your mother. She is your mother; do not have relations with her.
8"`Do not have sexual relations with your father's wife; that would dishonor your father.
9"`Do not have sexual relations with your sister, either your father's daughter or your mother's daughter, whether she was born in the same home or elsewhere.
10"`Do not have sexual relations with your son's daughter or your daughter's daughter; that would dishonor you.
11"`Do not have sexual relations with the daughter of your father's wife, born to your father; she is your sister.
12"`Do not have sexual relations with your father's sister; she is your father's close relative.
13"`Do not have sexual relations with your mother's sister, because she is your mother's close relative.
14"`Do not dishonor your father's brother by approaching his wife to have sexual relations; she is your aunt.
15"`Do not have sexual relations with your daughter-in-law. She is your son's wife; do not have relations with her.
16"`Do not have sexual relations with your brother's wife; that would dishonor your brother.
17"`Do not have sexual relations with both a woman and her daughter. Do not have sexual relations with either her son's daughter or her daughter's daughter; they are her close relatives. That is wickedness.
18"`Do not take your wife's sister as a rival wife and have sexual relations with her while your wife is living.
19"`Do not approach a woman to have sexual relations during the uncleanness of her monthly period.
20"`Do not have sexual relations with your neighbor's wife and defile yourself with her.
21"`Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed to Molech, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the LORD.

Nice Lev. quotes. Unfortunately, TF will simply state that when Jesus came he said that he came to do away with the law and prophets and now we would only need one law and that would be to love him and our neighbor as ourself - and voila! The Law of Love was born.

And Voila--perversion was born!

evanman wrote:

And Voila--perversion was born!

Where is that verse, Evanman, where it says that the word of God would be a stumblingblock to them. Or something like that. It sure fits the case here.

21"`Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed to Molech, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the LORD.[/quote]

Yeah, the main reason for not dumping your kid into the fiery belly of an idol is cause if profanes the name of your God. Now that would be awful.

Quote:

1Cr 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

That's the nearest thing I can find.

there isn't a verse like the one you speak of!

evanman wrote:

Quote:
1Cr 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

That's the nearest thing I can find.

there isn't a verse like the one you speak of!

I think I put two verses together - first there's 2 Peter 3:16 - "....in which are some things hard to be understood,which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."

Then there is 1 Peter 2: 7,8

Talking about Jesus as the corner stone: "And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient; whereunto also they were appointed."

Sorry for the KJV, I don't own any bibles other than my original 3x5 that I've had since before my first child was born and that's a long time. I don't think I'll ever be able to just read the bible, ever again. This bible still has my references to FFing in it! Mt. 25:40 and James 2:15, 16. Interesting, eh?

NEW BIBLES
DEAR ACHEICK,

PLEASE GET A NEW BIBLE, IT DOEN'T HAVE TO BE A KJV, FOR YEARS I DID'T READ THE BIBLE , BUT WHEN EVER SOMEONE QUOTED SCRIPTURE, I KNEW THE VERSE AND WHERE TO FIND IT WITHOUT WANTING TO. GET RID OF YOUR OLD 3X5. uSE A COMPLETE STRONG'S CONCORDANCE AND A DECENT DICTIONARY. AND GET YOURSELF A NEW BIBLE. THOSE MEMORY VERSES WERE INGRAINED IN US AND DB'S TWISTED SLANT AND VIEW OF THE WORLD IS AN OLD HANGOVER THAT WE DON'T NEED. I THREW AWAY ALL THE MO LETTERS AND PUBS SINCE THEY CARRY THOSE OLD HITCH HIKING SPRITS. IT'S OK TO READ THE BILBE, JUST DON'T USE YOUR OLD ONE.

Thank you, Guest, for your very thoughtful reply. I can tell you are very concerned. I would love to read the Bible without all those "hitchiking" spirits as you like to call them. I only keep the old 3x5 for proof that I was in that group, in case it ever becomes a question. I also got rid of all my old Mo letters and was sorry because people later needed them for research. I now have a collection someone gave me and I'm sending it eventually to a university to be used for research and storage and available to the public for copying should someone - say journalists, authorities, etc., - need them. They are important for history sake.

But back to the bible. People have given me bibles to read that were not KJV. I have tried desperately over the years and finally gave up. The thing that hurt me the most about my years in TF was the destruction fo my faith. I will never forgive Berg, Maria, and entourage for that. IMO, they are eligible for the stone to be hung about their necks and thrown into the sea. I hope I can see the day.

I keep my mom's old bible with her markings in it because she was such a sweet woman who had such great faith. Her example keeps me going. Thanks again for your concern.

Jack wrote:

Acheick wrote:
Don't worry, Jack, about being angry. You have every right to be. With people like Jay, I don't have much patience either.

Speaking of, I miss that guy.

Jack - you miss Jay? Where did he go? Well, I'll have to admit - I was actually enjoying reading the exchanges between him and all you guys. You gave him a run for his money and kept him on his toes. He certainly met more than his match and at the same time, we were all having quite a good laugh - I certainly was. Well - we have to laugh in this life, or else it's too much of a drudgery (is that a word?).

BTW - thanks for your nice comments. Mostly, I just want to be a help if I can - it makes me feel like I'm contributing in some manner to help undo some of the damaging effects of TF, of which I was a part of for so many years. Maybe it's the pennance I'm paying, but I really do want to be a help. No human being deserves to go through what so many went through in TF, and especially for our offspring who had no choice in the matter. All the best to you all.

Acheick wrote:

Well - we have to laugh in this life, or else it's too much of a drudgery (is that a word?).

Well, i guess we have to make sure it is not mocking laughter or else it may produce that poisonous "vile".

Glad to see someone else still has their original 3 x 5 like i do. Mine has a leather cover and i still keep it in the original case which is wrapped in rocket tape that we stole (did i say stole- i mean "provisioned") from the White Sands Missile Range. i like to read all those notes in the margins. Also have a big Thompson Chain that Gibeah gave to me in Puerto Rico. Also have a lot of Mo letters that are now yellowed with age as well as with disgust and contempt.

Re: concerned brother

Jonathan wrote:

Hi. My name is Jonathan Bolick. My brother's name is David Jackson Bolick. The only other name I know he used was Job. He joined in the summer of 1973. He currently lives in Santiago, Chile.
David is comming home for a visit in a few weeks. I really love my brother, and do not to sever communication with him. At the same time I want to see him set free from this cult.
Can anyone help me, or give me advice?

Jonathan, not to overlook the theme of this thread with my previous post, but i have absolutely no advice to render. 32 years is a lot of time. i have a friend that i led to the "team" as we called it in 1972, who is still in. i don't think she has a gainfully employed occupation. Does your brother have one that could support him should he abandon the cult?

I knew of a David who joined around 73' and went by the the name of Job. His father was a minister I believe. Advise? Do not be confrontional. Show lots of love and acceptance, give him plently of cokes to drink and lots of food. Do not talk anything relgious and do not talk about TF. talk about your family and about the normal things in life. His family in TF may be another thing. Just let him self disclose and give time and space to talk about anything he wants just don't attack him or put him down. Thats about all I can advise.

another guest wrote that he knew my brother David/Job
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:49 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I knew of a David who joined around 73' and went by the the name of Job. His father was a minister I believe. Advise? Do not be confrontional. Show lots of love and acceptance, give him plently of cokes to drink and lots of food. Do not talk anything relgious and do not talk about TF. talk about your family and about the normal things in life. His family in TF may be another thing. Just let him self disclose and give time and space to talk about anything he wants just don't attack him or put him down. Thats about all I can advise.

Could you please give me your name, and if you talked much to him.
I would love to know if he remembers you

Hi, my name was Cherub, I occassionally read the forum and post according to what I relate to. I'm shunned and surprized to hear that David (Job) is still in the family, I'm 53 now , I was 18 yrs old when I met him. There is a book titled "Cults and Consequences", I'm not sure of the author but it may help. Basically what I said before. God knows what he been thur, or what his current situlation is. Just offer all the help you can both financal and physical. He has to feel safe and secure. without attacks or affronts . I most sorry if I had in any way encourage him to join to be attracted to the group.

Cults and Consequences: The Definitive Handbook. Andres, Rachel, and Lane, James R., eds. Jewish Federation of Greater Los Angeles, Los Angeles. 1988.

I found it advertised on Amazon:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0962147877/203-6609819-9344726

Hi Cherub,
I was hoping to hear some more from you since your last postings. I remember we were in Laredo in '73, getting the bus ready, but I don't remember David (Job), myself.
You had mentioned some of the circumstances surrounding your departure from TF in an earlier posting, and I'm sure it was a difficult thing for you to recall and write about. I hope that my reference to certain individuals was not an offence to you and am truly sorry for the pain and mistreatment you have suffered, in and out of TF.
When I think about that time in our lives, I remember you as such a kind and earnest brother. We went through some tough times together on the Green Bus team, freezing nights on the road teams, wondering where we would stay, if we would have anything to eat, and if all our sacrifice and efforts counted for anything. There were creepy places we stayed that made me so scared, except for the fact that you were there. Thank you for watching out for me and being my friend.
If you are so inclined, I would love to hear more from you.
Sincerely, Rachel (formerly Day)

Day, I'm getting too old and have real time problems to handle nowdays. but just to have this forum is a real miracle and to even get a real chance to reach you.. David was a fresh face, churchy kid who visited the Laredo colony, He traveld with us on road teams up north bus and I left in Minn. Remember Mahal and Charity, shepards in Laredo, along with Jeho? Well, they help me escape the COG after I rejoined and stayed for 2 yrs. However they were gathering indepentants and genrally caused trouble to leadership. I 'm carefull who I contact since awful things did happen. and certian people are simply crazy and disillional. I try to llive a normal life but feel that TF and those assiociated with them has set me back a bit. I see that you are doing well and thanks for having a good memory about me. I can't even talk to anyone about the times we all lived thur , especially about living on the road. Hard times huh?

Colonel wrote:

Acheick wrote:
Well - we have to laugh in this life, or else it's too much of a drudgery (is that a word?).

Well, i guess we have to make sure it is not mocking laughter or else it may produce that poisonous "vile".

Glad to see someone else still has their original 3 x 5 like i do. Mine has a leather cover and i still keep it in the original case which is wrapped in rocket tape that we stole (did i say stole- i mean "provisioned") from the White Sands Missile Range. i like to read all those notes in the margins. Also have a big Thompson Chain that Gibeah gave to me in Puerto Rico. Also have a lot of Mo letters that are now yellowed with age as well as with disgust and contempt.

Hey, Colonel, are you the same guy who used to post at LoLo's board? You were always so nice and I always enjoyed your posts and wondered where you went.

Thanks for your thoughts, BTW.

xFamily

concerned brother

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